Debt and deficits now "secondary concern" to economic growth - Pence

[arandomuser]

But democrats would have you believe that rising debt is a non-issue. That was the rallying cry when Obama was spending like crazy.

For the record, both sides have never cared. I thought maybe with a non-politician in office this might change, but no.

the deficit the last year of the obama admit was about 400 billion

its now 1 trillion under trump

they are not equal.

[Inuyaki]

Pretty much this. The USA's national debt is basically impossible to pay off at this point (not that many - if ANY - other Western countries can boast in this regard), so hey, may as well carry on until the inevitable crash.

Germany had a surplus for a long time now.
We reduced our debt-to-gdp-ratio from ~82% to ~62% from 2010 to 2018 (we only had 82% because of your bubble and the following global financial crisis to begin with it was ~65% before).
Debt fell from ~$2.1 trillion in 2012 to ~$1.9 trillion now

[arandomuser]

So you have someone in the administration admitting this under Obama?
I mean, I guess we can ignore that the majority of the deficit spending under Obama was related to prior republican administration actions, but I would love to see the same quotes from democrats....

Because as I remember it they had problems with it too, and by the actions taken and corresponding drop to the deficit over his administration sure seems like they thought it was a huge issue.

Its also nice to get republicans to admit public spending helps the economy, except they had the GOP house under obama and forced him to cut spending every single year and then went around and said " why isnt obama recovering the economy fast enough' but when its their guy they let him double the deficit and then say " look how great the economy is! " its just about power and fooling people.

[Zan15]

Entitlements, not the military and other discretionary spending, are the largest drivers of deficit growth. The end.

The debt grows because we under tax for our spending levels.

LOL, what a shock defending the military budget till the end.

I would love to hear how they are the largest driver since Social Security (1.1 trillion) has never added a dime to the deficit and Medicare is about 45-55% paid for by direct Medicare payroll taxes and premiums charged.

That leaves the general fund with $322 billion dollars worth of funding to Medicare according to 2019 CMS reporting
Medicaid is about 420-440 billion dollars.

Remainder of the 640 ish billion in discretionary spending are spread across hundreds of programs like food stamps, Unemployment Compensation, Child Nutrition, Child Tax Credits, Supplemental Security Income, and Student Loans. Some of which are paid for in direct taxes like Unemployment and interest/principal repayments on loans.


So At best the military could "currently" be compared to what is left under Medicaid/Food stamp and other benefit programs.


Once you include the OCO fund, then military spending is $989 billion. It includes:

Defense Department base budget: $576 billion.
DoD Overseas Contingency Operations: $174 billion.
Departments that support defense: $212.9 billion. They include the Department of Veterans Affairs, State Department, Homeland Security, FBI and Cybersecurity, and the National Nuclear Security Administration.
Emergency funding for support departments: $26.1 billion.


I would argue that the majority of interest payments right now that are being paid are for current and Past military spending, not discretionary spending. Probably 65/35 split. That would bring Military total yearly spending close to the actual discretionary spending totals (minus SS) and the total difference is 1.3 trillion vs 1 trillion




The correct answer is that they are BOTH currently huge driving forces for deficit growth and either BOTH should be cut or taxes should be increased to pay for the services.

There should be a military specific tax instituted, just like payroll taxes. Trump can call it a Patriot tax, they will eat it up and support it 100% right? Right??

Medicare taxes should have continued to have its rates adjusted every few years by a few tenths of a percent, but this like SS stopped in the 80-90s when republicans decided all taxes should be cut or frozen.
Fucking Boomers and their parents need to pay for what they underfunded. Raise their premiums immediately. (sorry dad)

Medicaid should be funded like Medicare, there should be payroll specific taxes no different than unemployment/disability. The vast majority of people on Medicaid are working poor and disabled. Businesses should be funding this in addition to Medicare/SS taxes.


Long term goal, all healthcare related expenses should be rolled into one program (i.e Medicare for All). We know the huge savings this would be but, Mah socialismmmmmmm…...


The Best part of this is republicans crying about socialism and Medicare for all, when the whole time half of their Medicare is being paid for by ALL...but only 1/4 of the population gets it.

[Orbitus]

But democrats would have you believe that rising debt is a non-issue. That was the rallying cry when Obama was spending like crazy.

For the record, both sides have never cared. I thought maybe with a non-politician in office this might change, but no.

Wrong, the only side that has cared about deficits is the only side that has reduced them in the last 40+ years. And that is the Democrats. When Obama took office, deficits were above a Trillion a year, he had it down to roughly $500 billion by the end of his 2nd term, now Republicans have ballooned the deficits to over a trillion again.

So, claiming that Trump is a non-politician is fucking laughable at best, he isn't even a good businessman.

[Zan15]

You need to be more specific. Social Security doesn't touch the general fund and doesn't contribute to the deficit at all. Medicare and Medicaid cost about $1.1T but get about $290B in taxes to pay back a little of it, so a net cost of about $810B.

Medicare also collected 120 billion in premiums...as well as 24 billion in taxes on benefits, 12 billion from states, 10 billion from interest, 6.4 billion from "other"....

Total 2019 revenue was $755.7b, general fund amount was $322.7b

https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statist...ads/TR2019.pdf

[Fugus]

Does anyone remember who raised the debt ceiling the last time? Was it Trump? I can't recall.

The debt ceiling increase is actually routine and is going to be required until we actually completely wipe out our deficit so we can actually start paying off our debt.

So better to look at the deficit by president than anything because the ceiling increase is a red herring.

[Masark]

The debt ceiling increase is actually routine and is going to be required until we actually completely wipe out our deficit so we can actually start paying off our debt.

Or until you get rid of said ceiling, as it's really just ridiculous to have allocation of money and authorization of securities sales to get said money as separate things.

[Elegiac]

Does anyone remember who raised the debt ceiling the last time? Was it Trump? I can't recall.

Who cares. The debt ceiling is a moronic idea designed to mollify rubes that think sovereign debt is like a credit card.

[LilSaihah]

I was gonna say 'isn't this just Keynesian economic theory' but I'm not sure that's really fair.

I mean you technically can try to outgrow your debt, that's really the principal idea behind taking on debts and deficits - but I dunno maybe make some infrastructure spending? I never hear about any new bridges or anything. Build some dams or something that'll have some actual benefit to someone.

[Dontrike]

I was gonna say 'isn't this just Keynesian economic theory' but I'm not sure that's really fair.

I mean you technically can try to outgrow your debt, that's really the principal idea behind taking on debts and deficits - but I dunno maybe make some infrastructure spending? I never hear about any new bridges or anything. Build some dams or something that'll have some actual benefit to someone.

Infrastructure would have been great if Trump didn't walk away from it during one meeting, praised Nazis one time while he was trying to promote it, gave away $1.3 trillion on bailing out a booming economy, or could remember that's one of the things he promised.

[igualitarist]

According to Paul Krugman, the deficit isn't a problem.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/markets...-12-1028765957

[Machismo]

According to Paul Krugman, the deficit isn't a problem.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/markets...-12-1028765957

And remember how much the Republicans hate Krugman?

It's a sad state of affairs when the Democrats are more fiscally conservative than the GOP.

[jeezusisacasual]

I was gonna say 'isn't this just Keynesian economic theory' but I'm not sure that's really fair.

I mean you technically can try to outgrow your debt, that's really the principal idea behind taking on debts and deficits - but I dunno maybe make some infrastructure spending? I never hear about any new bridges or anything. Build some dams or something that'll have some actual benefit to someone.

Simple things like redoing the US waterway systems would be a standard fix and provide a winning formula of JOBS!!!11!!

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/lead-in...ional-problem/

The study is only done once every 4 years so we have to wait until 2021 for an updated shit show that Americans should be upset about.

https://www.businessinsider.com/asce...ure-a-d-2017-3

I can understand saving a massive massive nationwide program like a " Break in case of " box to help fight off a disgusting recession / depression problem. The bigger problem will be how to fight off a massive economic slowdown should one arise since our interest rates are so low its hard to imagine them fixing the problem with cheaper money. I am firmly in the Keynesian style of economic theory if its monetary policies are placed in the ideal areas.

[Orbitus]

You're probably right, the deficit must be addressed. I think we should start addressing it by not canceling student debt and not having government-supported healthcare. It's a priority and I'll make sure I vote for candidates with programs that don't include an insane and unnecessary increase in government spending.

Government supported healthcare, would actually be cheaper in the long run, than what we are doing now.

And so, you hate Trump now? Considering his tax cuts have added about $500 billion to the deficits, right?

[Shadowferal]

Repealing Trump’s Tax Cut Would Bring in Billions

[GreenJesus]

Repealing Trump’s Tax Cut Would Bring in Billions

"I stand for the american worker btw" while Jeff Bezos and Activision blizzard pays little to no taxes and self employed families lay 24k per year for healthcare.

[Draco-Onis]

According to Paul Krugman, the deficit isn't a problem.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/markets...-12-1028765957

This is where you went wrong, most democrats don't like the guy and now you are using him as your shield.

[Fugus]

You're probably right, the deficit must be addressed. I think we should start addressing it by not canceling student debt and not having government-supported healthcare. It's a priority and I'll make sure I vote for candidates with programs that don't include an insane and unnecessary increase in government spending.

Actually, you are looking at it wrong.

The cost of public college and cancelling student debt was estimated to be about 46 billion annually. That is like a third of what we just gave the military without batting an eye. And, believe it or not, would actually increase consumer spending and everything else as a whole.

The money spent there won't be thrown into some abyse like the military stuff does where it all goes to overseas crap and under millionaires mattress. It actually would be money the working class and poor instead use to get on with their life and consume stuff instead of subsisting just to pay it off. It would be a net gain and a way to help the poor (White and Minority) actually start pulling themselves up.

And Medicare for all is projected to SAVE 3 trillion over 10 years. So you are wrong at every spot right there. Yes, taxes would go up to cover it, but the overall money saved would more than offset it and again go to consumer spending by the poor and middle class.

You want to address the deficit, raise taxes on the rich and corporations.

Taxes on corporations are out of their profits, not their total income, unlike normal people. What they pay their employees or re-invest back into the company is already tax deductible. Same with the rich, the money they kept and paid taxes on was the money they didn't keep in their company.

You want to help with Social Security, raise the cap. Only the first $120,000 of someones income is taxed on it, the rest is exempt so the working class and poor are paying for it while the top largely ignore it while keeping the lions share of the profits.

Or start taxing all income as income, regardless of source after $250,000 a year. That allows those who just start to actually get a feel for the market and start out while those who's entire life is it don't get to abuse it to pay lower taxes than their own workers. I remember working at Walmart learning that the Walton's got roughly 2.2 BILLION a year while paying a lower tax rate than my shift manager while the shift workers were all largely too poor to even pay taxes at all.

There are ways to address the issues, the problem is MODERN conservatives and the Republican party are ideologically opposed to effective governance.

[Beazy]

Repealing Trump’s Tax Cut Would Bring in Billions

We should do it. I literally only got like 29 dollars a pay check because of the tax cuts. . . . I would be willing to lose that 29 bucks to increase spending power for the country. Small price to pay to live like a Roman.