Did the blood elves oppose burning Teldrassil?

[Deathknightish]

I just realised how similar the events were between the sacking of Silvermoon and the burning of Teldrassil.
Well, the scourge was pure evil, while Sylvanas at least pretended that it was for a good cause.

With the blood elves' mystery, did they oppose the idea, knowing what it's like losing most of their people? Is it ever handled in the game? I haven't played for like 3 years so I've completely missed BfA except for watching YouTube videos by Doronsmovies and Nobbel87.

[sirethas]

Well, no one really agreed with burning of Teldrassil and only Saurfang openly opposed this decision as far as I remember but I also remember that no other horde leader supported this decision.

[Flarelaine]

They did not have much opportunity to oppose it. The original plans never included burning it and when Sylvanas gave the order it was a done deal.

Blighting Darkshore afterwards which we can see Horde forces busy at is something they could have protested.

[Super Dickmann]

No one except Saurfang left the Horde because of Teldrassil and even he had to be pushed by Sylvanas turning Undercity into a booby trap. We know Sylvanas had majority Horde support up until she insulted all of them and flew off at the last minute.

Bob does bring it up after the war's end as something he should've spoken up about and obliquely references that Sylvanas has sent the Horde on a dark path or whatever before both during the blood elf heritage questline and after that. Past that no blood elf ever has any contact with it and Liadrin and the like are gung-ho for the war up until the end like all the rest.

[Biomega]

It's war. These things happen. I seem to recall a certain Kalimdor port town being bombed with Blood Elf involvement. It's not that much different, really.

Does it seem excessive in hindsight? Sure. Many things are regretted after the fact, even if the conveniences of the moment did much to silent immediate objections. It's easy to later go "oh, but WE never agreed with this!". Saurfang is the only one, really, who has any claim to actual objection. Of course Sylvanas didn't consult everyone before she decided to do it, but it's not like the other factions of the Horde were lining up to oppose her either, were they.

It reminds me a lot of what happened during the Third Reich - of course you can assume that not EVERYONE agreed with what the Nazi leadership did (far from it, most likely) but nevertheless only very few actively opposed them. Evil succeeds, good men do nothing, etc. etc. Of course it's facile and the reality is much more complicated, but you don't just get a free pass for not speaking up when you could have. You get understanding of the circumstances, yes, but not a free pass.

Lorthemar and friends are at least partially culpable. They did eventually turn around and did end up opposing Sylvanas, but for the burning of Teldrassil they share at least some of the responsibility. That's part of what leadership entails.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I'm sure there were.


Blizzard always does things like this. They always go back and say, "oh, yeah, this person/these people were definitely apart of this event back then" since they can't show 100% of what's going on in-game.


One would kind of just have to assume that if a couple of individuals from any particular race within the Horde was opposed to Sylvanas' choices as warchief then there would have to be other members of other Horde races who felt the same.



Also it's not important of a detail. So who cares

[Raisei]

It's war. These things happen. I seem to recall a certain Kalimdor port town being bombed with Blood Elf involvement. It's not that much different, really.

There is war with collateral damage and there is the decision to commit genocide against a known civilian target AFTER the war is already won. This was the latter.

Does it seem excessive in hindsight? Sure. Many things are regretted after the fact, even if the conveniences of the moment did much to silent immediate objections. It's easy to later go "oh, but WE never agreed with this!". Saurfang is the only one, really, who has any claim to actual objection. Of course Sylvanas didn't consult everyone before she decided to do it, but it's not like the other factions of the Horde were lining up to oppose her either, were they.

Weirdly though, the only one showing any regret up till the very end is Baine with him preventing yet another disgusting plan of Sylvanas (which he is called a Traitor for anyway), none of the other Hordes besides Saurfang care and that includes people that have just deposed one tryannical ruler (Thalryssa), or are allied with forces that directly oppose such acts (Liadrin and Hamul). If any more of them had had the courage of Baine then Sylvanas head would be on a pike in front of Orgrimmar for month now, but as with Garrosh before, they behaved like brainwashed zombies and did everything their Warchief wanted, long as it is "FOR THE HORDE!".

So the answer to the thread is: No, they did not oppose it, they were too scared of Sylvanas, it took Baine and Saurfang risking their lifes and Sylvanas sending some of the other leaders to their death in Nazjatar for them to finally snap out of whatever stupor they were in. Shame that the Horde playerbase does not understand that and calls these people traitors.

[Candy Cough]

Why would they care?

Last I remember Night elves and blood elves fucking hate each other. Look at suramar, they were real close to killing each other in the middle of a legion invasion because they hate each other so much. Night elves also sabotaged mana sanctums in quel’thalas

[Darththeo]

The original plan wasn't to burn it and once it was burned, I doubt the Alliance would have been accepting of Horde races going "We didn't support it!"

[Caerule]

The short stories highlight there's some bad blood between the Blood Elves and Night Elves remaining in the eyes of some.

But yeah, this was supposed to be a conquest to force the Alliance to its knees, not a genocide to kick-start a world war.

Ultimately, this was only Sylvanas' decision. And the Blood Elves are not a warmongering sort. I'm sure the vast majority would have opposed the burning.

[Varodoc]

They should, since it's genocide of innocent civilians and any race should find that despicable. Both Theron and Thalyssra were at a crossroads of sorts after the Burning of Teldrassil and didn't really know what to do, with Thalyssra opting to follow Theron's judgement.

[FuxieDK]

No one, really opposised burning Teldrassil, barely even the Night Elves themselves.

It wasn't until Tyrande lost her marbles and officially turned to the dark side, Alliance deemed it appropriate to comment on the situation.

[eurojust]

Why would they care?

Last I remember Night elves and blood elves fucking hate each other. Look at suramar, they were real close to killing each other in the middle of a legion invasion because they hate each other so much. Night elves also sabotaged mana sanctums in quel’thalas

They didn't hate each other until WoW happened and they had to find an excuse to push the Blood Elves into Horde.
Tyrande genuinely wanted to help them in Warcraft 3 and even almost die on that bridge.
It's just that it doesn't fit the current agenda which is to push two mega faction and each race should remain at all cost into these factions.
On the other hand the Blood Elves completely forgot their hate for Trolls or Orcs. Unlike the Orcs, the Night Elves weren't on the verge of destroying Quel Thalas.

[Aeula]

Does it matter? It'll never be addressed.

Some Blood Elves were fine with it (Lorash) because of what the Night Elves did to them. Others probably weren't.

[Ajko]

I just realised how similar the events were between the sacking of Silvermoon and the burning of Teldrassil.
Well, the scourge was pure evil, while Sylvanas at least pretended that it was for a good cause.

With the blood elves' mystery, did they oppose the idea, knowing what it's like losing most of their people? Is it ever handled in the game? I haven't played for like 3 years so I've completely missed BfA except for watching YouTube videos by Doronsmovies and Nobbel87.

No, they stood in the front line. Gladly.

[Tarba]

Burning down a city is just an act of war.
If they didn't want war they should have spoken before.
The so fucking honorable Orgrim did it. And Thrall honored him by naming his capital after him.

And if you want something that make sense don't look out to much on wow lore. They try to abuse the "rule or cool" and are pretty much retarded. So we end up with bullshit.

[eurojust]

Burning down a city is just an act of war.
If they didn't want war they should have spoken before.
The so fucking honorable Orgrim did it. And Thrall honored him by naming his capital after him.

It's a war crime, and here it's not even a city here but an entire zone where almost all of the nelves citizen lived (hence the genocide).

[Kithelle]

The short stories highlight there's some bad blood between the Blood Elves and Night Elves remaining in the eyes of some.

But yeah, this was supposed to be a conquest to force the Alliance to its knees, not a genocide to kick-start a world war.

Ultimately, this was only Sylvanas' decision. And the Blood Elves are not a warmongering sort. I'm sure the vast majority would have opposed the burning.

You mean like the opposed her after the burning? Opposed the murdering of neutrals...the raising and brainwashing of Night Elves and Kul Tiran?

There may be a chance though that they opposed her after she said the Horde was nothing!

[Caerule]

You mean like the opposed her after the burning? Opposed the murdering of neutrals...the raising and brainwashing of Night Elves and Kul Tiran?

There may be a chance though that they opposed her after she said the Horde was nothing!

I think you may have missed the ending of Nazjatar's story. At the end of it, Lor'themar makes it clear that he stands with Saurfang and Thrall's Horde, and hopes his people will be accepting of his decision. While the former Ranger-General may yet command some loyalty within Silvermoon, there's no indication that Lor'themar is unpopular with his people. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the Regent Lord persuaded most of his people to his side. And like I said, it's not like the Blood Elves are the most warmongering of people. I doubt many supported the burning, even if they stayed loyal to the Warchief's will until later.

[yani9841]

It's a war crime, and here it's not even a city here but an entire zone where almost all of the nelves citizen lived (hence the genocide).

The concept of war crimes in a setting without the establishment of what they are is a poor basis to judge.

War crimes are not just genocide, or wanton destruction... If we use real world examples and pull from the Geneva convention we get a longer list. Killing helpless combatants (think Azsuna's forsaken sailors or the fleeing orcs in Jade Forest), misuse of a flag of surrender (northrend murloc stuff), settling in occupied land (Bael Modan)... all that also counts as war crimes as well.