Birds of Prey (2020)

[Ihavewaffles]

But it wasn't a flop

according to the new bar we have today, it was.

[Kyphael]

Reasons why it didn’t do well: https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/...210151335.html

1. Blockbuster buzz vs. Oscar buzz

Not once have I ever heard of anyone not going to the movies because of the Oscars. lol I mean, maybe Sunday night, but if ratings are an indicator, The Oscars aren't exactly pulling in massive numbers like it used to way back, and it's certainly not swaying the general public's mind on whether or not to see a movie they are interested in.

2. The R rating

Deadpool, It, and Logan to name a few showed if the public is interested in the movie, they'll go see it. This excuse doesn't fly anymore.

3. The lackluster trailers

I feel this is unfair. Justice League got a lot of flack for showing too much in its trailers, giving away the big twist in the third act (Doomsday.) While I agree trailers have to show you just enough to interest you, finding that happy medium is difficult, especially when it comes to comic book adaptations and fan expectations. Not showing Ewan McGreggor in his black mask (pun) until very late was polarizing; most fans thought he might not even wear it in the movie. However, those gaudy, awful costumes and characterizations were not cleverly hidden in the trailers, and that likely turned off a lot of the viewers familiar with the Birds of Prey. It kind of did me. I've been waiting decades to see The Huntress on the big screen, and that "crossbow killer", The Huntress I know from the comics, is not. Marketing can be tricky, but I wouldn't blame the trailers alone. Hell, I'd go as far back as costume design.

4. That bird-brained title

Agreed, awful title, and misleading. Should have just called it Harley Quinn. If I were to buy a ticket, I wouldn't even say "2 for Birds of Prey please," I'd likely say "2 for Harley Quinn, please."

5. Maybe Harley isn’t as big a draw as we thought

Off the heels of The Joker, a game changer for DC and WB, yeah. Add to the fact the movie looked cheap, and of course not, so it's more like Margot Robbie isn't as big a draw as they thought. Just because she was one of the few good things in Suicide Squad, doesn't mean she can carry her own movie, especially a bad one.

[Polyxo]

1. Blockbuster buzz vs. Oscar buzz

Not once have I ever heard of anyone not going to the movies because of the Oscars. lol I mean, maybe Sunday night, but if ratings are an indicator, The Oscars aren't exactly pulling in massive numbers like it used to way back, and it's certainly not swaying the general public's mind on whether or not to see a movie they are interested in.

2. The R rating

Deadpool, It, and Logan to name a few showed if the public is interested in the movie, they'll go see it. This excuse doesn't fly anymore.

3. The lackluster trailers

I feel this is unfair. Justice League got a lot of flack for showing too much in its trailers, giving away the big twist in the third act (Doomsday.) While I agree trailers have to show you just enough to interest you, finding that happy medium is difficult, especially when it comes to comic book adaptations and fan expectations. Not showing Ewan McGreggor in his black mask (pun) until very late was polarizing; most fans thought he might not even wear it in the movie. However, those gaudy, awful costumes and characterizations were not cleverly hidden in the trailers, and that likely turned off a lot of the viewers familiar with the Birds of Prey. It kind of did me. I've been waiting decades to see The Huntress on the big screen, and that "crossbow killer", The Huntress I know from the comics, is not. Marketing can be tricky, but I wouldn't blame the trailers alone. Hell, I'd go as far back as costume design.

4. That bird-brained title

Agreed, awful title, and misleading. Should have just called it Harley Quinn. If I were to buy a ticket, I wouldn't even say "2 for Birds of Prey please," I'd likely say "2 for Harley Quinn, please."

5. Maybe Harley isn’t as big a draw as we thought

Off the heels of The Joker, a game changer for DC and WB, yeah. Add to the fact the movie looked cheap, and of course not, so it's more like Margot Robbie isn't as big a draw as they thought. Just because she was one of the few good things in Suicide Squad, doesn't mean she can carry her own movie, especially a bad one.

Wasn't the point of the costumes that they were kind of starting out with their makeshift, cobbled together outfits? Like it's supposed to be the 'red hoodie' phase of Spiderman.

[Skulltaker]

Im not saying massive film franchise can't produce shit films. Im saying "go woke go broke" is a wank statement.

Also the new star wars is case study against the statement. Only film headed by a white man did the worse.

I'd agree with that being a wank statement, but Cap Marvel was a sub-par (for Marvel-movies) installation in the franchise propped up by it being sandwiched inbetween the two arguably most successful movies of the decade, that ended a 10-year cinematic effort. You could have put any movie in there, people were itching for Endgame so much they would have watched anything.

At the same time, Solo, a movie I still don't like but I'd agree is better than I first thought, was badly promoted and was released after what might be one of the most... let's say controversial movies in the franchise, and of the decade. It'S like offering people a sundae after they were dunked in a cesspool. You might mean well, it might be a good sundae, but most people probably won't take it at that time. I feel that Solo would have done better if it had been released a few months later, with a little more polish maybe, and a well-structured promo campaign.

Wasn't the point of the costumes that they were kind of starting out with their makeshift, cobbled together outfits? Like it's supposed to be the 'red hoodie' phase of Spiderman.

Might be, but the costumes still looked bad and out of place. You could walk into an NATO shopand spend 200€ and walk out with a better looking more functional 'discount' superhero costume.

[Newname1234567890]

We both know you're being disingenuous here, either that or you're just a complete fucking retard. I personally don't think that you're a moron, but you might insist that I'm giving you too much credit.



Black panther wasn't a very woke film, and in fact was very "anti-blame whitey" Captain Marvel on the other hand was woke, considered the worst of the MCU, generally hated, and literally everyone I know who went to see it, went specifically because "I need to watch this so I understand everything in end game". Tell you what, come back to me after Captain Marvel 2 comes out, and if it does even ballpark numbers, I will outright apologize to you.

Deal. But not sure i agree with you on the black panther, the villain plans a global white genocide and the film still trys to portrays him in sympathetic light at times....

[TheFirstOnes]

Birds of Prey in 1 short summary: Don't make a team up movie when you have no build up for the team up. We're also supposed to care for Harley...for some reason? She isn't at all developed in the DCEU, so...

[unbound]

But it wasn't a flop

Strictly speaking, it wasn't a flop, but it also didn't earn the studio as much as people think.

Studios only get about 50% of the domestic box office take (standard agreement has opening weekend returns at 55% to the studio and decays after that) and about 1/3 of the international box office take.

So, Suicide Squad garnered the studio about $303 million ($162.5 domestic and $140 international). But it cost them $175 million plus advertising (likely around $100 million...not atypical for a large movie - BvS spent around $150 million in advertising). That leaves the studio with about $28 million. Better than a loss, but not something that they were particularly excited about either.

[Newname1234567890]

And is told (and shown) he's wrong and is beaten by the hero. This is literally the same narrative that magneto has when put at odds with professor X.

Yeah both franchises show thier villains to be not entirely wrong. You wouldn't see the same done for the nazis.

- - - Updated - - -

Strictly speaking, it wasn't a flop, but it also didn't earn the studio as much as people think.

Studios only get about 50% of the domestic box office take (standard agreement has opening weekend returns at 55% to the studio and decays after that) and about 1/3 of the international box office take.

So, Suicide Squad garnered the studio about $303 million ($162.5 domestic and $140 international). But it cost them $175 million plus advertising (likely around $100 million...not atypical for a large movie - BvS spent around $150 million in advertising). That leaves the studio with about $28 million. Better than a loss, but not something that they were particularly excited about either.

So again. Go woke go broke is wrong. They made money.

[unbound]

So again. Go woke go broke is wrong. They made money.

lol

Where in my reply did I say anything about that? I'm simply pointing out a common misconception people have regarding box office receipts and what studios get.

As for Birds of Prey, I rather liked it overall. My primary complaint is that Mary Elizabeth Winstead did a terrible job with Huntress...Harley was pitch perfect and the movie overall was a lot of fun.

On the other hand, I found Suicide Squad to be largely garbage.

It's almost like the movies I enjoy have nothing to do with being woke or not.

[Newname1234567890]

lol

Where in my reply did I say anything about that? I'm simply pointing out a common misconception people have regarding box office receipts and what studios get.

As for Birds of Prey, I rather liked it overall. My primary complaint is that Mary Elizabeth Winstead did a terrible job with Huntress...Harley was pitch perfect and the movie overall was a lot of fun.

On the other hand, I found Suicide Squad to be largely garbage.

It's almost like the movies I enjoy have nothing to do with being woke or not.

You jump on the end of a fairly long back and forth about "go woke go broke" so i assumed you were continuing it.

[exochaft]

So again. Go woke go broke is wrong. They made money.

It's not necessarily about the movies making money, it's also about how much money the movie companies projected or wanted to make off the film(s). You have to put your business hat on for this, as with any business it's not just about how much money you make, but also about risk/reward and whether it's worth the time/effort to make such ventures on top of the monetary aspect. My wife and I run two businesses right now, and while both business technically generate a profit we are debating whether to discontinue one of the businesses because we're not sure if it's worth the time and effort to make a minimal amount of profit with it. Such a way of thinking expands to any level of business, even the film industry: even if a film makes money, if it doesn't make as much as you want/need and you deem it's not worth the risk or time/effort to make a film or planned future films based upon performance, it can potentially be considered a flop.

More onto the actual movie of this thread... at least it wasn't Suicide Squad? Not much of a metric to surpass, I suppose. Movie was just meh at best, it just felt too juvenile. Sure, you can write some of that off due to the content, but you can present juvenile ideas/moments in interesting and entertaining ways... but we didn't get that.

[Xath]

Yeah both franchises show thier villains to be not entirely wrong. You wouldn't see the same done for the nazis.

- - - Updated - - -



So again. Go woke go broke is wrong. They made money.

Suicide squad wasn't woke? Ghostbusters was woke and absolutely lost money. It's not even go woke it's more preach about politics go broke regardless of which side you are preaching to

[Strangebrew]

https://twitter.com/LSMark_/status/1226958098289635330

[Lodreh]

Saw this last weekend. It wasn't bad... not that it'll win any awards... mostly fun ride with a few bumps along the way. First, I like Harley and feel she was played fairly true to character. I am not wild about the face tattoos or the over use of ink in general. That said a few things that seemed odd... Huntress was played like she had Asperger's Syndrome instead of being cold and closed off... Canary was originally a blonde didn't see a reason to race swap it but whatever... Renee Montoya was kinda pointless, her entire story should have been replaced with Barbara Gordon acting as Batgirl tracking down Harley and ultimately helping her. This could have doubled as inspiration for Cassandra Cain and Barbara's future role as Oracle. All fans want is a solid representation of characters we grew up with. Changing that to appear to be progressive just leaves everyone wanting something different.

[Altrec]

I know, right? If you picked someone at random and asked them to name a Female Comic Book Character, the top 3 answers would probably be Wonder Woman, Black Widow, and Harley Quinn.....

I think that depends on what movie or TV show is out at any given time. I would bet under most circumstances over the last few years it would be Wonder Woman, Black Widow, Gamora, Scarlet Witch, Captain Marvel, or even Jessica Jones that is going to come to peoples minds first. Give it a few months and Harley will fade from immediate memory and that random person will have a different list of 3.

- - - Updated - - -

Tbf, it isn't the DC universe as *we* know it, but an alternate version.
This one has a Batman who kills, a darker Superman (who isn't always there to save the day) and such, so it is fairly reasonable to expect that the characters would be different in all films. People really need to get over their hangups in my opinion.

Perhaps DC would be having an easier go of things if they didn't go so heavily into their alternate version of these characters? Maybe just maybe DC/WB need to get over their hang ups of trying to get a darker edgier DC universe and find a happy medium between the two versions.

Marvel for the most part has done it better. Their characters while different from their comic counterparts are not radically different and their core is still recognizable. DC's portrayal of Batman and Superman as you have described just doesn't work for a lot of people, nor do a lot of the changes to the Birds of Prey work for a lot of people who like those characters.

[Dziubla]

Weird you couldn't figure out it wasn't for you based on the title/trailer... Maybe you should lay off movies for a while if girls being powerful characters is so offensive to your sensitive disposition snowflake.

Seems to me like someone going to a movie with such a title clearly DOESN'T have a problem with "girls being powerful characters". And that's what the guy you quoted kinda said. The problem with all these movies isn't that women are shown as "powerful". It's that the only way to show them as powerful for creators of these movies, is to pair them up with useless/weak/stupid/evil male characters, so that by comparison, the female can seem good/smart/powerful. It's sexist as fuck, and if it was done the other way around, the outcry would be endless, but since sexism only works one way in our hypocritical society, showing men as incompetent fucktards is acceptable, showing women as anything other than pefect is sexist and misogynistic.

[Surfd]

It seems the 'best' DC movie characters have been the ones to stay closest to their original concept and arc (Harley Quinn, Shazam, and Wonder Woman spring immediately to mind), but they seem to focus on this nonsense mentality that carbon copies of comic characters just don't work (which MCU has proven is so, so wrong...) so they instead have to make them *cooler, which has shown to fail so spectacularly it is unreal.

It's not so much that they try to make them "cooler", but rather that the suits (mostly at WB) making these movies largely don't actually understand what makes most of their source material "cool" to begin with. They are so out of touch with the core elements of the characters and the medium as a whole that it is mind boggling. Which then gives us shit like grimdark-brooding superman. Literally NOBODY wants to see grimdark-brooding Superman because that is not at all what his character is even vaguely about. Put someone in charge of this shit that actually LIKES and UNDERSTANDS comics and the source material / characters, and their movies would likely almost instantly stop sucking. Instead, we get shit which is 90% style over substance, like Bats Vs Superman or Justice League, or basically every DC movie other than WW/Aquaman to come out of Warner since Nolan finished his run on Batman.

I mean, it's absolutely insane that the guys responsible for the Animated stuff relating to DC properties have literally been cleaning house for DECADES producing absolutely amazing shit, but the Live Action people produce turd after turd after turd like clockwork.

[Lodreh]

As it stands though, people need to grasp that it isn't the same characters, and for better or ill, we will see. I am optimistic for the Batman reboot though, but it will probably be a shit show seeing how they are going at the moment.

Then stop releasing it as the characters we grew up with and loved. My hangup is not the fact it is an alternate version of the character... it's I do not have a solid base of these characters to work with from the movies. Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, Spider-man... hell basically all of the MCU characters are at least recognizable at a glance. Changing things and losing that recognition is not going to appease the fans.

I mean, it's absolutely insane that the guys responsible for the Animated stuff relating to DC properties have literally been cleaning house for DECADES producing absolutely amazing shit, but the Live Action people produce turd after turd after turd like clockwork.

A RL friend of mine said this exact thing last week.

[Deadite]

"Woke" = "having prominent female characters" to a certain segment of the population these days.

It is more that you will be accused of an -ism if you don't like it.

What interested me with Birds of Prey is that it's a feminist film. It is very finely written. There is in the script a real look on misogyny, and I think we need that. We need to be more aware of how we behave with the opposite sex. We need to be taught to change. Misogynists in movies are often extreme: they rape, they beat women ... and it is legitimate to represent people like that, because they exist and they are obviously the worst. But in the Birds of Prey dialogues, there is always a hint of everyday misogyny, of those things you say as a man you do not even realize, mansplaining ... and it's in the script in a very subtle way. I found that brilliant. - Ewan McGregor

That kinda sounds on the woke side of things to me. Not seen it yet so dunno if he is just thowing buzz word around.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Which then gives us shit like grimdark-brooding superman. Literally NOBODY wants to see grimdark-brooding Superman because that is not at all what his character is even vaguely about.

I slightly contest this, I’d love to see a red son superman movie or even better an injustice movie. The problem is to have either of those works for the general public you need a contrast so it can be the shock both story’s are meant to be but right now that contrast doesn’t exist as the mainline super man and dc movie verse in general are awful grim garbage.