Why should I care about democracy?

[Elegiac]

... they were united under the Prussian king. Who became the Emperor of Germany.
Who then was smack dab in the middle of the myriad causes for the first world war.

But dude that must mean nationalism wasn't one of the chief causes of the First World War...

Quick, someone get Ken Burns on the line.

[Elegiac]

in 1913 to be eligible to run for election in politics the requirements were that you be a man that is at least 35 years old who had a minimum income of 3000 sek, owned property which tax value was at or exceeded 50000 sek... and to vote you had to be a man that is at least 24 years old, not be in debt, not poor, served in the military...

women couldn't vote... people who hadn't served in the military couldn't vote... people who were in debt couldn't vote... people who were poor couldn't vote... you call this democracy?

People sure don't have an issue with calling Ancient Athens a democracy.

[Elegiac]

democracy is more than a decision making process...

And being left wing is more than a function of policy.

QED.

[Elegiac]

lol... you dont understand how a political spectrum works at all...

That's actually quite rich coming off the tail end of a statement that kingdoms and empires are the same thing, lol.

[Aurgjelme]

Which is about as baffling a thing to say as claiming the existence of drunk drivers means driving is inherently bad.

Im not quite sure I what you are trying to say. You disagree Brexit was a democratic decision?

[Elegiac]

Im not quite sure I what you are trying to say. You disagree Brexit was a democratic decision?

I'm saying that not all democracy is created equal and there is such a thing as irresponsible democracy - i.e. political drunk driving.

[Muzjhath]

i didn't say they are the same thing... i said that nation states are incompatible with a kingdom or empire ruled by a monarch...

Except for the German empire. Which was a nation-state and an autocratic empire.

French nationalism started around the monarchy.

So try again

[Elegiac]

This thread is a painful read, holy shit.

I've been arguing with a high schooler for like shitsquillion pages and I ain't even give a fuck.

Because I care about only one thing, and that's my rediscovered passion for democracy.

[Muzjhath]

try again...

That quote doesn't say what you think ot does.

A nation state is a state in which the great majority shares the same culture and are conscious of it. The nation state is an ideal in which cultural boundaries match up with political ones.[1] According to one definition, "a nation state is a sovereign state of which most of its subjects are united also by factors which defined a nation such as language or common descent."[2] It is a more precise concept than "country", since a country does not need to have a predominant ethnic group

.

From the same article.
The important part is the nationality. Germany was formed arounx the german identity under one single monarch. An Emperor of Germas and Germany. Who then had several kings swear fealty and such

The German Empire from 1871–1918
The Unification of Germany into a politically and administratively integrated nation state officially occurred on 18 January 1871, in the Hall of Mirrors at the Palace of Versailles in France. Princes of the German states, excluding Austria-Hungary, gathered there to proclaim William I of Prussia as German Emperor after the French capitulation in the Franco-Prussian War.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unification_of_Germany sauce for that clip

[Saucexorzski]

Its literally watching you and other educated people try to argue with stupid for pages at a time. Remember when people understood what words meant? Wish people would educate themselves more.

i doubt that, since all you tend to do is mock others lack of intelligence for your own enjoyment. You would probably find yourself rather bored.

[Elegiac]

germany was ruled by a parliament during that time...

Otto von Bismarck would have you jailed for insinuating as such, lol.

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Its literally watching you and other educated people try to argue with stupid for pages at a time. Remember when people understood what words meant? Wish people would educate themselves more.

We live in a post truth world that's on fire and full of racists and like a greyhound bus full of executives whose greed is killing all of us.

That's a lot to ask given the circumstances.

[Saucexorzski]

Glad you edited your spelling of "board." Wouldn't want to mock you for your lack of intelligence

if my extreme dyslexia is a sign of low intelligence to you, i can only laugh.

[Muzjhath]

germany was ruled by a parliament during that time...

They had a parliament. Thaf didn't appoint the government. Nor legislation. The princes of the realm handled that in the real sense.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bund...German_Empire)

[Aurgjelme]

I'm saying that not all democracy is created equal and there is such a thing as irresponsible democracy - i.e. political drunk driving.

Ok, by your logic the only valid political action is to give control to the Germans again over all of Europe. There is a certain crowd you would fit nicely in with.

There are many valid reasons for opposing a united states of Europe. My country voted two times against it, and now 40 years after refusing to join, my nation has still not burned to the ground. Say yes to a fair trade union, no to a centralized bureaucratic organization with power over sovereign nations and their resources.

British fishermen will be glad to see monster trawlers from Lithuania kicked out and regaining some control over their own waters.
Not to mention being a part of the soon to be fourth reichs new army with these two at the reins:

[Beefhammer]

Welcome to academia.

However, I'm not debating them. If I were I'd probably get something more substantive as a basis for their positions than "but the chart says...".

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All I'm gonna say is that if corporations are people, that also means they can be guillotined.

Yup. If a corporation is found guilty of something every executive and board members should all face the penalties.

[Muzjhath]

so they were above the king... which means it wasn't an empire or kingdom ruled by a monarch...

... reading comprehension. That body was directly appointed by the German Kings and thd Emperor.
They snd the Emperor appointed all the ministers and the government.
The popularity elected Reichstag rubberstamped

[Elegiac]

Ok, by your logic the only valid political action is to give control to the Germans again over all of Europe. There is a certain crowd you would fit nicely in with.

There are many valid reasons for opposing a united states of Europe. My country voted two times against it, and now 40 years after refusing to join, my nation has still not burned to the ground. Say yes to a fair trade union, no to a centralized bureaucratic organization with power over sovereign nations and their resources.

British fishermen will be glad to see monster trawlers from Lithuania kicked out and regaining some control over their own waters.
Not to mention being a part of the soon to be fourth reichs new army with these two at the reins:

"There are many valid reasons" is quite interesting since all of your reasons seem to boil down to "Fuck Germany".

I live in the US. Not a day goes by where I don't hear someone bitch and whine and moan about how California this and California that.

The reality is that "Germany" would only exercise as much control as the system allows. And by removing yourself from the table at which that system is devised, as Britain has done, you have in effect already rendered yourself subject to that body's judgment. Especially if they are larger and more powerful.

Like, what's the endgame here? Do you honestly think a Norway or a Slovakia would be treated more fairly by Germany than if it was federally incorporated, or if it was a foreign body entirely? Do you honestly think you'd have greater impact on their decision making process by being absent from it?

Human achievement is and always has been built on cooperation.

[Muzjhath]

from what i'm reading he needed their permission to do various things... so he wasn't the ruler... a king that rules does not need to ask others for permission... he just do...

he also couldn't veto decisions made by them...

With that logic Louis XIV of France wasn't a mocarch. Because he couldn't create new taxes on his own authority

[Elegiac]

if you're not the ruler as a king then you are there for ceremonial purposes...

Literally the defining aspect of the Ancien Regime was that it was an absolute monarchy.

Christ and Allah...

[Aurgjelme]

"There are many valid reasons" is quite interesting since all of your reasons seem to boil down to "Fuck Germany".

I live in the US. Not a day goes by where I don't hear someone bitch and whine and moan about how California this and California that.

The reality is that "Germany" would only exercise as much control as the system allows. And by removing yourself from the table at which that system is devised, as Britain has done, you have in effect already rendered yourself subject to that body's judgment. Especially if they are larger and more powerful.

Like, what's the endgame here? Do you honestly think a Norway or a Slovakia would be treated more fairly by Germany than if it was federally incorporated, or if it was a foreign body entirely? Do you honestly think you'd have greater impact on their decision making process by being absent from it?

Human achievement is and always has been built on cooperation.

Ah, I get it.. Submit or die. You fascist...

Fuck Germany? No, I like Germany, and Germans are good people. It's when they start to have visions of "grander" schemes that things get sketchy.
But hey, ok. If you like the idea of a German run European super state, that's just fine. If you think the endgame of EU is not a stronger and more powerful GERMANY then you are delusional.

The original idea of the union was a free trading area, not the monster it has become and is about to evolve even more into.