Reasoning for it?

[Mehrunes]

"Please please PLEASE don't call me on completely ignoring context when it favors my famous twisting and word games!"

And that's as far as I'll waste time on this. Sorry that you're so angry over a clearly humorous post. This whole thread has been light hearted after you exposed the troll, why spoil it now?

Just because you consider your specious, hypocritical and flat out wrong jab at Horde players humorous doesn't mean it's not also specious, hypocritical and flat out wrong. If you don't want your humorous posts questioned on such grounds, write them in PMs to yourself I guess. And just because I did the questioning doesn't magically make me angry. Given how I merely paraphrased your post and pointed out the facts you ignored in your attempt at humor, you are projecting really hard to portray my post that is a paraphrase of what you consider humorous as anger.

You know what would be much closer to anger? Your jabs here that are directly and personally addressed at me. And which are also flat out false to continue the theme here. Because I missed no context in what I wrote. And my "twisting" and "word games" are miraculously only famous among the people who tend to have a penchant for posting fanfiction and are upset I dared to call them out on that. Making that remark absolutely meaningless to me.

[Minikin]

Please show us at least a tiny sliver of that wonderful logic and unbiased judgement of yours.

please let me know when I support either faction absolutely.

edit: also not sure if you realize but pretty sure both posts were made more with humor than any actual meaning.

[Sharby]

Why just the official forum? Here's a post from this one:


Which you should be familiar with because it was written by you.

LMFAO holy shit.

[Minikin]

Because there actually was none in what you quoted? @DemonHunter18 made a statement of their preferences. It's neither logical nor illogical, it just is. You trying to latch onto something in order to validate your own posts doesn't change it.

lol you really are riled up arent you.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

It does bind her though. Silvermoon is a !@#$ing monarchy, so she doesn't get to disavow Bob's legitimate authority without becoming a traitor.

What monarchy? When's the last time they even had a King? This is just a silly argument that doesn't work. You don't dedicate your life to a faction that enslaved you.

[Ardenaso]

And the blood elves are quite angry about every elf who stayed with the alliance. Because being patriotic and putting your people and your homeland above is the greatest thing an elf can do. By renaming themselves bloodelves, they wanted to remember all those who died to defend their home. And every high elve that refuses that is not only a traitor, but is disregarding the sacrifices. Not only were they those elves not there to protect their ancestral home, but in the end they are pissing on the graves of the victims.

I thought the reason why the High Elves left in the first place because Lor'themar banished them from Silvermoon because they didn't want to do what Rommath suggested for every Thalassian Elf survivor

Also, can't be a traitor when the leader banishes you out. Twice.

That said, when Defias/Fogsail/Ravenholdt/Alteraci/Blackthorn joins the Horde, the Alliance doesn't have any grounds or rights to call them as traitors

[Mehrunes]

please let me know when I support either faction absolutely.

How does that address what @Soon-TM said, exactly?

lol you really are riled up arent you.

What's with you people and your insistence that pointing out the obvious flaws in what you wrote is because the other person is "riled up"? Your posts won't magically become better if you pretend that to be the case.

I wasn't saying it made Lor'themar's rule unlawful, just that Kael's actions damaged the credibility and authority of his decisions. You can't just betray your whole people to the Burning Legion and have anything prior to that not looked back on in some sort of distrust, even if at the time the decisions were made in good faith. The De jure is still in question because he was Regent for the Prince, who DID have a rightful claim to the throne. Right now, there is no official claimant, and Lor'themar is now basically Horthy from Hungary. They need to reform the government in Silvermoon and either bring in a claimant to enthrone, enthrone Lor'themar or reform into a republic of some sort. This perpetual Regency is long overdue to end in some way. As long as he is just a regent, it gives the Alliance Thalassians some claim and legitimacy. Both sides can view the other as a traitor faction to the old kingdom until one actually builds a proper government. The New Horde just reformed it's leadership, why shouldn't Silvermoon?

Horthy was appointed by the parliament, not the last ruling monarch. And it was a rather unique scenario caused by the fact that the only potential claimant to the throne would not exactly be accepted by the global community after WWI. So it's not exactly an apt comparison. Lor'themar is more of an analogy to Gondor's situation in Lord of the Rings.

As for the whole Kael debacle, given how Lor'themar stood with his people when Kael turned on Quel'Thalas, there's very little to support the notion that Kael's betrayal damaged the credibility and authority of this particular decision. And people looking at Lor'themar's regency with distrust is rather meaningless when none of those people are in any position of authority themselves. The opinions of those hypothetical people is about as relevant as the opinions of equally hypothetical people that distrusted Kael's leadership before he turned batshit crazy. Or those who distrusted Anasterian, like Alleria who considered him to be blatantly wrong in his stance towards the Orcish threat and decided to act on her own in response. They are essentially nobodies in this context and their personal views hold neither claim, nor legitimacy. Even if they self-appoint themselves as Ranger General like Vereesa did.

There is a direct continuation between the leadership of Sunstriders and Lor'themar's rule. And just because there is no claimant to take the throne doesn't mean his government isn't proper. Regencies weren't exactly uncommon in monarchies and they were seen as something normal. The view that some High Elves may hold that Blood Elven state is a traitor faction to Quel'Thalas doesn't hold any water.

[DemonHunter18]

Because there actually was none in what you quoted? @DemonHunter18 made a statement of their preferences. It's neither logical nor illogical, it just is. You trying to latch onto something in order to validate your own posts doesn't change it.

I think he was joking haha

I hope.

[Artelia]

Basically. Just because she is a Blood Elf means she needs to be loyal to the Horde. She was never aligned with the Horde though. She was raised with Varian in the Gladiators pit. So she was loyal to him

Wait a minute..can you actually read this comic? She was enslaved and then sent to Gladiator pit. But she was always very loyal to Quel'thalas and Blood Elves. She actually started with this traitor shit after Aegwynn heal her from addiction.

[Garretdejiko]

Silvermoon should look very different than in the game even just one year later.

Hopefully we'll get an updated Silvermoon along with an updated Exodar. The thing has been stuck into the ground for only god knows how long

[Minikin]

I think he was joking haha

I hope.

of course i was. i dont even know how to explain how it would be any other way.

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How does that address what @Soon-TM said, exactly?

what part of humor dont you get mehrunes? or is this another one of those circular arguments where you ask me something, i give a direct answer to it and then you type out something that I either cant be bothered to read or has nothing to do with what I was saying in the first place (yet somehow you expect I provide you the courtesy of reading whatever it is that you are typing).

Also, address what? Some baseless claim? I got better things to do with my time than address some pixels.

What's with you people and your insistence that pointing out the obvious flaws in what you wrote is because the other person is "riled up"? Your posts won't magically become better if you pretend that to be the case.

what do you mean YOU people?

just in case you missed this one. thats also humorous.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPxs0Qh72kY

[Soon-TM]

What monarchy? When's the last time they even had a King? This is just a silly argument that doesn't work. You don't dedicate your life to a faction that enslaved you.

1) From Merriam Webster - Regent: a person who governs a kingdom in the minority, absence, or disability of the sovereign.

Looks like there being a regent means that there is a kingdom, aka monarchy, regardless of the throne being held by an actual king.

2) The Silvermoon throne is vacant since WC3. It doesn't look like a really long time, especially when in other fantasy kingdoms the throne can remain vacant during centuries without any real harm. And nothing in Warcraft points to the Silvermoon monarchy having to be abolished if the throne isn't claimed after X years.

3) The Horde didn't enslave the BEs. And before you chime in with "zomg Garrosh/Sylvanas", they tried to enslave the whole Horde (with maybe an exception for Orcs/Goblins in Garry's case), not only BEs.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

3) The Horde didn't enslave the BEs. And before you chime in with "zomg Garrosh/Sylvanas", they tried to enslave the whole Horde (with maybe an exception for Orcs/Goblins in Garry's case), not only BEs.

Do you not even know Valeeras story? I'm not talking about Blood Elves as a whole.

[Mehrunes]

2) The Silvermoon throne is vacant since WC3. It doesn't look like a really long time, especially when in other fantasy kingdoms the throne can remain vacant during centuries without any real harm. And nothing in Warcraft points to the Silvermoon monarchy having to be abolished if the throne isn't claimed after X years.

Depending on the political system, thrones were vacant for long-ass time even IRL. HRE had multiple decade-long interregnums. Admittedly HRE was a rather unique and rather messy entity, but still. Poland during the elective monarchy period also had a few lengthy interregnums because of the election process, where Primate of Poland would automatically become interrex (which was essentially a regent).

[Rustedsaint]

by Op logic every human who doesn’t march to the alliance banner is a traitor, as well as every troll/orc/goblin who doesn’t bend their knees to the horde.
She was an orphan due her parents dieing to some bandits, which cause her to ended up being set to the gladiators pit after she got caught stealing to survive. Got partnered up with varian and that NE guy who treated her like his own child(she’s referred to being as “teenager/young”in the comics ) helped the alliance and she ended up earning a home in stormwind.

[Soon-TM]

by Op logic every human who doesn’t march to the alliance banner is a traitor, as well as every troll/orc/goblin who doesn’t bend their knees to the horde.

There is a little difference between "not marching with the Alliance" and "aiding a foreign head of state who has been at war with your homeland since ten years ago at least".

[Ardenaso]

There is a little difference between "not marching with the Alliance" and "aiding a foreign head of state who has been at war with your homeland since ten years ago at least".

Argent Dawn/Crusade Lordaeronians? both applies to them lol and they didn't even care that their own countrymen was being tortured and experimented on and literally hunted down by the Forsaken

[cparle87]

I blame Garithos. If that monkey was dropped on his head when he was born, High Elves (Blood elves) would still be part of the Alliance. God knows how would their path develop then... If Kael stayed in the Alliance and had help from humans (instead of nagas >>>> connected to Illidan)

I don't see him allying with the naga or Illidan to be his downfall. Illidan was legitimately going to help his people with their magic addiction, once Kael proved his loyalty. Sadly Kael went "where's my reward, I want it now" and Kil'jaeden got his hooks into him. That's one of the biggest mysteries to me about the lore. Did Kael know that he had pledged his loyalty to the very being who masterminded his people's genocide? If not, his tragic fallen hero quotient just shot up. If so and he just didn't care anymore, that would be the moral event horizon in my book.

[sam86]

Varian's carbon copy Thrall story has way more issues with it than that....

Note that gladiator slave fighting pits only existed as part of Orgrimmar AFTER they wrote Varian's story

ironic enough, Thrall flat out banned slavery in horde, yet Varian story happens in Orgrimmar, which happens in Thrall regime, try to explain that
we did get explanation, they were illegal and hiding the fact they own slaves, but i find it extremely stupid that slaves are walking in orgrimmar ear shout away from any guard and don't tell they are slaves to get free by law, heck they even fight in official arenas (or is that also unofficial, in middle of orgrimmar, in very known place?) but they never reported their enslavers?

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Do you not even know Valeeras story? I'm not talking about Blood Elves as a whole.

he is right that horde officially banned slavery
yes that part of story is muddy as shit, but Thrall officially banned slavery from horde

[Aucald]

ironic enough, Thrall flat out banned slavery in horde, yet Varian story happens in Orgrimmar, which happens in Thrall regime, try to explain that
we did get explanation, they were illegal and hiding the fact they own slaves, but i find it extremely stupid that slaves are walking in orgrimmar ear shout away from any guard and don't tell they are slaves to get free by law, heck they even fight in official arenas (or is that also unofficial, in middle of orgrimmar, in very known place?) but they never reported their enslavers?

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he is right that horde officially banned slavery
yes that part of story is muddy as shit, but Thrall officially banned slavery from horde

IIRC, the given explanation for this was that Valeera, Broll, Varian, and others weren't technically slaves - they were indentured servants to their "sponsors" in the gladiatorial circuit, as they were able to buy their freedom from said sponsors with enough fights. The reality of this situation, as in most cases, was otherwise; but that's generally how they were able to fly under Thrall's relative radar and continue the gladiatorial games. Enforcement was also remarkably lax outside of Orgrimmar proper, as the Horde in general appreciated the games a great deal and didn't look too much into how fighters were treated or provided by the various outfits. Bloodeye Redfist, for instance, was able to secure his freedom from Reghar after become a champion of the games, and even joined Reghar as a fight-master in the games by pooling their resources to indenture more fighters between them.

Varian was taken in as a Theramore deserter, though this was largely a pretense. Charged with desertion and cowardice by the Horde he was forced to fight off his "debt" in the games accordingly.