Changes again

[Askyl]

So you would like to see them make all the changes they "should" have made in vanilla in classic?

When it comes to fixing exploits, yes.

This disgusting action from Blizzard makes me think.

All I wish for my birthday and for Christmas is that these servers die completely and that people boycott these servers and play more than ever on private servers and actually give the server owners a lot of money so that this hurts Blizzard financially.

Then, maybe then will they release ACTUAL Vanilla servers with ABSOLUTELY ZERO, and by zero I mean ZERO changes, like we asked for for a god damn 13+ years.

And what would they need to do to please you? Release a 1.0 version, or start with Alpha? Add patches exactly as they were added in vanilla and then just reset all servers so you can do it all over again when TBC would have been released?

That's quite pathetic. Classic is an improved vanilla, just because you're not a kid and amazed by everything you see in the game anymore and need to act out online, doesn't make the game bad. Hopefully you'll find your peace with it, or just quit and find something better to do.

[Very Tired]

"Screw making this game better and more enjoyable for the masses! I need my next nostalgia high!"

[arkanon]

When it comes to fixing exploits, yes.

So thousands of people have been banned? For abusing the exploit i mean?

Blizzard have said this:

"Soooooo since I’m seeing a lot of confusion (here and elsewhere), here’s some insight into how we draw the line between what makes something a punishable exploit versus a “happy little accident.”

The key factor here is intent. Did the player do something with the specific intention of causing a glitch to occur, and did they do it order to exploit said glitch for their own benefit?"

Not about this situation, but just to clarify their stance.

[xGLxAnubis]

The classic community mantra "#NoChanges - Except for ANY change Blizzard decide to make, which we will fiercely defend as a "fix" and say anyone who disagrees doesnt like classic!"

#NoChanges has ALWAYS meant mechanical changes. It's always meant actual gameplay affecting changes. It's meant things that fundamentally alter the game at large.

That's why people didn't bitch and moan about server caps being increased. Or 7.3 client. Or updates to the guards aggro ranges.

Giving Paladins a taunt changes gameplay, falls under #NoChanges. Removing respec cost drastically alters how players play their character and removes the largest long term gold sink in the game, falls under #NoChanges. Dungeon Finder would fundamentally change how groups are formed and who you run dungeons with, #NoChanges.

The removal of the scoreboard to prevent rampant queue dodging and exploitation of the honor system to benefit a small group of rankers? That's fixing an exploit. Exploits don't fall under #NoChanges (See: Walljumping)

- - - Updated - - -

So thousands of people have been banned? For abusing the exploit i mean?

I hope so. But Blizzard has shown recently that they're much more inclined to simply fix an exploit rather than fix and punish. Which is too bad.

Remember folks: Exploit Early and Exploit Often.

[arkanon]

#NoChanges has ALWAYS meant mechanical changes. It's always meant actual gameplay affecting changes. It's meant things that fundamentally alter the game at large.

That's why people didn't bitch and moan about server caps being increased. Or 7.3 client. Or updates to the guards aggro ranges.

Giving Paladins a taunt changes gameplay, falls under #NoChanges. Removing respec cost drastically alters how players play their character and removes the largest long term gold sink in the game, falls under #NoChanges. Dungeon Finder would fundamentally change how groups are formed and who you run dungeons with, #NoChanges.

The removal of the scoreboard to prevent rampant queue dodging and exploitation of the honor system to benefit a small group of rankers? That's fixing an exploit. Exploits don't fall under #NoChanges (See: Walljumping)

You forgot to open this excessively long post with "in my personal opinion". You also forgot to say "I know many, many people who believe in #NoChanges have a very different idea of what #NoChanges means to them"

Like i said early on, classic "fans" just hide behind "nonono, its a FIX, not a change, #NoChanges 4LyF"

Did you ever stop to wonder WHY they are not banning people? Because these are changes, not exploit big fixes - CHANGES.

[xGLxAnubis]

You forgot to open this excessively long post with "in my personal opinion". You also forgot to say "I know many, many people who believe in #NoChanges have a very different idea of what #NoChanges means to them"

Like i said early on, classic "fans" just hide behind "nonono, its a FIX, not a change, #NoChanges 4LyF"

I didn't forget. I speak for the entire #NoChanges because I said so.

[Askyl]

So thousands of people have been banned? For abusing the exploit i mean?

Blizzard have said this:

"Soooooo since I’m seeing a lot of confusion (here and elsewhere), here’s some insight into how we draw the line between what makes something a punishable exploit versus a “happy little accident.”

The key factor here is intent. Did the player do something with the specific intention of causing a glitch to occur, and did they do it order to exploit said glitch for their own benefit?"

Not about this situation, but just to clarify their stance.

They don't ban these kinds of exploits, they patch em. Cheating and exploiting are also different even of they touch a bit.

If it was a bug abuse / exploit that would directly boost someone to r14, ofc they would. Dodging because you are a pussy and picking fights you know you can win, is exploiting the system in a way that you gain advantage in the long term. Which is something you just can patch out instead.

Just like they do. And I hope they won't listen to you cry babies again. Because it was listening to cry babies that ruined wow in the first place.

[arkanon]

They don't ban these kinds of exploits, they patch em. Cheating and exploiting are also different even of they touch a bit.

If it was a bug abuse / exploit that would directly boost someone to r14, ofc they would. Dodging because you are a pussy and picking fights you know you can win, is exploiting the system in a way that you gain advantage in the long term. Which is something you just can patch out instead.

Just like they do. And I hope they won't listen to you cry babies again. Because it was listening to cry babies that ruined wow in the first place.

So how are cheating and exploiting different in the TOS? How does Blizzards definition differentiate between the two? Or is this just more excuses and backtracking from the famous "classic community" that threatened to boycott the game if changes were made?

You threw some word salad at the post, but all it really says is "nonono, this change is TOTALLY ok, because i like this change! Also, #NoChanges"

People mocked me when i used to reply to #NoChanges with #OnlyMyChanges - and this was pre launch. We all knew you lot would buckle immediately and spend the first 6 months doing nothing but making excuses for the endless stream of changes Blizzard was always going to make.

- - - Updated - - -

I didn't forget. I speak for the entire #NoChanges because I said so.

I know you are trying to be "funny", but this really is why #NoChanges was an absolute laughing stock right from day 1 - you all think you know what it means, but you all endlessly contradict each other and bicker among yourselves.

Blizzard has made endless changes to classic, and you all just bend over and make excuses for them, they have a built in PR team of mindless zombies spewing "its not a change, its a bug fix".

[munkeyinorbit]

It hurts people manipulating the system, which could just as easily be concidered an exploit since they use the system in ways it's not supposed to be used for better ranking.

This is a great change and something they should have done in vanilla.



You should really learn the difference between mechanical changes and upgrades to the platform and actual gameplay changes. If they start adding skills and change balacing, I'll lift an eyebrow. So far they've only improved the game.

And which type is this AV change and which is the druid change? Trying to pass off a change you like as an exploit fix is dishonest.

[lollerlaban]

Battleground scoreboards no longer list the enemy team until your entire team has clicked Enter Battleground. The scoreboard remains visible for everyone once the battleground has started.

what the actual f***? You can even see enemy team in retail and have always seen since day one. I don't even know what to say about these changes that makes Classic WoW too far away from original vanilla anymore.

e: before someone mentions about queue leavers it's spirit of vanilla. Every premade team dodged other premades and developers didn't fix this back in the day so it's spirit of vanilla.

Imagine thinking that being a pussy is the spirit of vanilla, yikes

[arkanon]

Imagine thinking that being a pussy is the spirit of vanilla, yikes

Why are so many of you classic players so easily offended and yet so determined to offend?

[Cthulhu fhtagn]

I'd be devastated if i couldnt choose who i fight against in battlegrounds. Do i look like i like to be punched? I've done it a lot and they don't seem to be enjoying it.

[Sorshen]

The hypocrisy of the #nochanges movement on display.

[Arakakao]

It was a change that needed to happen, because it was being used as a way to abuse the system.

[Flurryfang]

Battleground scoreboards no longer list the enemy team until your entire team has clicked Enter Battleground. The scoreboard remains visible for everyone once the battleground has started.

what the actual f***? You can even see enemy team in retail and have always seen since day one. I don't even know what to say about these changes that makes Classic WoW too far away from original vanilla anymore.

e: before someone mentions about queue leavers it's spirit of vanilla. Every premade team dodged other premades and developers didn't fix this back in the day so it's spirit of vanilla.

.....Are you seriously promoting a toxic element of Vanilla, just because it was the "pure" experience? This was done by so few people back in the day, so it had little impact, which is why they did not do anything about it. But nowadays people are aware of it and it might become a problem, so they remove it.

There is no way you can argue for them to not remove it.

[varren]

No changes was already invalid the moment they made servers with multiple times the original pop.

[Pohut]

I believe that Blizzard would've fixed that exploit back in Vanilla if it was abused as much as it was in Classic. So from that point of view #nochanges still stands.

[dewd]

nobody cares about pvp

[Pohut]

Some say it was, some say it wasn't. Did you play a lot in vanilla? Did you not encounter this issue yourself? Some say they did and it was common.

Yes. I played Vanilla for quite a while and then quit some time after TBC started.
It wasn't common at all in Vanilla. It was a much tighter close-knit community back then and people were worried about their server reputation.

[arkanon]

It was a change

I dont disagree with that!

- - - Updated - - -

I believe that Blizzard would've fixed that exploit back in Vanilla if it was abused as much as it was in Classic. So from that point of view #nochanges still stands.

Some say it was, some say it wasn't. Did you play a lot in vanilla? Did you not encounter this issue yourself? Some say they did and it was common.

- - - Updated - - -

nobody cares about pvp

I guess if that was true, this wouldnt be an issue?

- - - Updated - - -

.....Are you seriously promoting a toxic element of Vanilla, just because it was the "pure" experience? This was done by so few people back in the day, so it had little impact, which is why they did not do anything about it. But nowadays people are aware of it and it might become a problem, so they remove it.

There is no way you can argue for them to not remove it.

Well, there is an argument for not removing it - it was present and known about in Vanilla. Dont get me wrong, you are free to argue against that, but the argument absolutely exists.

- - - Updated - - -

No changes was already invalid the moment they made servers with multiple times the original pop.

IMO, #NoChanges was on shaky ground the moment it was first mentioned, as the proponents of the # couldnt agree on what it actually meant, and still cant. It was invalidated the moment Blizzard started rolling out numerous changes, and the #NoChanges movement showed its true colours and instead of outrage, Blizzard received support and encouragement for each additional change they made.