1. #6421
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    They are the two most left leaning on the list
    You're viewing the world through the lens of an ideologue. Where they are on the spectrum is not actually a concern most voters have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  2. #6422
    Quote Originally Posted by derpkitteh View Post
    dammit. yang was one of the legit ones.

    i wanted those freedombux. oh well, maybe one day we'll get UBI. it's probably inevitable, i'd hope anyway.
    it's not like he won't be the in WH Cabinet as favorable as he is just like Ben Carson was to the republicans
    "You know you that bitch when you cause all this conversation."

  3. #6423
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    You assume there is automatically a large intersection between the two bases and that Warren's supporters won't just gravitate to Klobuchar or sit out entirely.

    And yes, it's anemic when your primary contender is a straight-coded Disney villain who nobody had heard of two years ago when you have near universal name and policy recognition, lol.

    It means there is literally no excuse aside from people not liking you.
    I think most of them WOULD have gone to Sanders but after CNN threw a grenade into the middle of her campaign and turned his supporters against Warren, NOW I don't think they will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    And the "boring candidate" always comes along with the idea that we need to lean right in order to pick up Republicans.
    I cannot tell you how infuriating it always is to see the boring candidates try and say we need to poach Republicans.

    No, you need to drive people who feel the need to sit out of the election to show up and vote. And you do that by having a real progressive agenda that excites people with things they actually want to happen.

  4. #6424
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Bad signs for Bernie here honestly. Warren's campaign collapsed and her voters did not immediately go to Bernie, and to top it off he's majorly underperforming outside of his core demographic of College-educated 18-30 year olds.

    He's on track to win the popular vote and lose the nomination.... again.
    FFXIV - Maduin (Dynamis DC)

  5. #6425
    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    God, if Warren weren't there, Sanders would have an even bigger lead....
    I'd be surprised if Warren stands down as she now seems to just be a spoiler for Bernie.

    If Biden steps down though that will be a big boost for Klobuchar or Buttiegeg instead to top Bernie.
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  6. #6426
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    I agree with the Hillary comparison. Nominating Buttigieg, Klobuchar, etc... would like repeating 2016. I think Trump would still lose because he's gone out of his way to be a terrible president, but the final vote count would be a lot closer than with Sanders.
    Honestly I think the safe route is the only winning route. Trump's numbers are static. He'll get 40%, Dems will get their 40%. That remaining 10% will decide the election.

    Sanders is toxic to that 10%. You put a Socialist and a Fascist on the ballot. You put a 2nd term of Trump and a 1st term of Sanders on the ballot. The result is a legendary dismantling of the Democratic Party.
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  7. #6427
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    You're viewing the world through the lens of an ideologue. Where they are on the spectrum is not actually a concern most voters have.
    I really don't get your position here. Sanders is clearly left of Warren, who is slightly right of Sanders, and both are fairly left to the usual Democratic pickings. And by "left" we're not talking about "where they are on the spectrum" which is a weird translation you're using there IMO, but where their policies place them on the spectrum. And they are by-and-large much closer to each other while the others remain largely "lets get back to the status quo and no rock the boat" Democrats.

    Their positions ARE fairly close. It's logical that if one were to be removed, some measure of their support would fall to their other. It is unreasonable to assume that the entirety of their support would vanish or go to candidates who are more distant from their positions.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

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  8. #6428
    No one else is leaving the race yet.
    Still have 48 states and then some to go.

  9. #6429
    The Undying Slowpoke is a Gamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    No one else is leaving the race yet.
    Still have 48 states and then some to go.
    Well besides Yang. And probably Steyer.
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  10. #6430
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshingo View Post
    I think most of them WOULD have gone to Sanders but after CNN threw a grenade into the middle of her campaign and turned his supporters against Warren, NOW I don't think they will.
    That's also a factor.

    This whole progressive lane thing is a conundrum the Bernie Bros have yet to fully figure out. Sanders has made his name on being the lone progressive underdog in a sea of neoliberals, which furnishes the narrative that anyone who doesn't support Bernie isn't really progressive. Enter Elizabeth Warren, the existence of whose campaign threatens that narrative because it broadcasts that not every progressive is a Bernie Bro.

    You'd think that this would be cause for celebration in terms of there being an untapped base of progressive voters, but doing so would involve prioritising the movement over the man - and as said, Sanders' most fervent base of support is a cult of personality. So they have to construct purity tests and do everything in their power to expose the "truth" that Elizabeth Warren is a bad person and a secret Republican, and that her supporters aren't actually progressive, etc.

    They just can't seem to comprehend a reality in which ideological adherence isn't the sole factor in determining who you support.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  11. #6431
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshingo View Post
    I cannot tell you how infuriating it always is to see the boring candidates try and say we need to poach Republicans.

    No, you need to drive people who feel the need to sit out of the election to show up and vote. And you do that by having a real progressive agenda that excites people with things they actually want to happen.
    Yeah I get a little cheesed at my folks fairly easily (as older retired white, wealthy democrats) who talk about picking up Republicans. I immediately start listing out which Democratic platforms they suggest we cut back on. LGBT rights? Increased wages? Worker protections? Fair taxes? Because that's all picking up Republicans amounts to, because their policies are so unimaginably right of everything, that the only way to pick them up is to sacrifice everything that makes us Democrats, and then at that point, why aren't we running Republican???
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  12. #6432
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    I really don't get your position here. Sanders is clearly left of Warren, who is slightly right of Sanders, and both are fairly left to the usual Democratic pickings. And by "left" we're not talking about "where they are on the spectrum" which is a weird translation you're using there IMO, but where their policies place them on the spectrum. And they are by-and-large much closer to each other while the others remain largely "lets get back to the status quo and no rock the boat" Democrats.

    Their positions ARE fairly close. It's logical that if one were to be removed, some measure of their support would fall to their other. It is unreasonable to assume that the entirety of their support would vanish or go to candidates who are more distant from their positions.
    This would be true if one of said candidates didn't have universal name recognition and ran uncontested in the progressive lane in 2016.

    Ergo, there must be logical reasons why people don't like Bernie Sanders besides "neoliberal indoctrination".
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  13. #6433
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Bad signs for Bernie here honestly. Warren's campaign collapsed and her voters did not immediately go to Bernie, and to top it off he's majorly underperforming outside of his core demographic of College-educated 18-30 year olds.
    Because she's still...in the race? She was polling at this in NH for a while now.

  14. #6434
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    This would be true if one of said candidates didn't have universal name recognition and ran uncontested in the progressive lane in 2016.

    Ergo, there must be logical reasons why people don't like Bernie Sanders besides "neoliberal indoctrination".
    That...has nothing to do with anything. You're arguing that Warren isn't acting as a spoiler for Bernie when they clearly share very similar positions. It's simple math, if Warren drops some of her supporters will go to Sanders. Some will go elsewhere. It is unreasonable to assume that they are mutually exclusive.
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  15. #6435
    Quote Originally Posted by rogueMatthias View Post
    I'd be surprised if Warren stands down as she now seems to just be a spoiler for Bernie.

    If Biden steps down though that will be a big boost for Klobuchar or Buttiegeg instead to top Bernie.
    I hope Warren drops to prevent that, but I am not entirely sure. She has proven she will gladly play dirty as evidenced by her stuff with the accusation. And she will gladly play politics to get what she wants as evidenced by her flip flopping when she thought it would help her and her neutrality during the 2016 election when Sanders would have been her natural endorsement.

    So not sure if she would step down to prevent it or cling on. Which she does goes to prove to us whether she is genuine in her policies or if she is just wanting power.

    With Biden, if he drops, I agree with you.
    Since we can't call out Trolls and Bad Faith posters and the Ignore function doesn't actually ignore it. Add
    "mmo-champion.com##li.postbitignored"
    to your ublock or adblock filter to actually ignore ignored posters. Now just need a way to ignore responses to them as well.

  16. #6436
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    That's also a factor.

    This whole progressive lane thing is a conundrum the Bernie Bros have yet to fully figure out. Sanders has made his name on being the lone progressive underdog in a sea of neoliberals, which furnishes the narrative that anyone who doesn't support Bernie isn't really progressive. Enter Elizabeth Warren, the existence of whose campaign threatens that narrative because it broadcasts that not every progressive is a Bernie Bro.

    You'd think that this would be cause for celebration in terms of there being an untapped base of progressive voters, but doing so would involve prioritising the movement over the man - and as said, Sanders' most fervent base of support is a cult of personality. So they have to construct purity tests and do everything in their power to expose the "truth" that Elizabeth Warren is a bad person and a secret Republican, and that her supporters aren't actually progressive, etc.

    They just can't seem to comprehend a reality in which ideological adherence isn't the sole factor in determining who you support.
    I actually disagree, I think most Sanders supporters had no problem with Warren and saw her as a dog in the same ideological fights with Sanders. Early on I saw so many progressive people in the media and online talk about how she was their 2nd pick and/or she should be part of Sanders' cabinet if she lost.

    But CNN intentionally sabotaged what seemed to be a political friendship to get clicks and now the rank and file Sanders supporters seem to hate her more than almost anybody else because she gets framed as a backstabber or a betrayer. I hate the whole fucking narrative about this conversation that the two had about this "Women can't be President" conversation. If Warren really wanted to use that against him she would have done so way before she became the front runner. It makes no sense whatsoever that she would have launched that when she was at the top of the field.

    She got the blame for a dishonest actor in CNN throwing a grenade into the race to make news instead of the actual news organization who inflamed a fight over a private conversation. And its infuriating that even though she's repeatedly talked about how she likes Bernie and supports his agenda in almost every way but is now seen as a snake or "plays dirty" as the poster above me just said when it was CNN who are the ones who pulled this stunt.

  17. #6437
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugus View Post
    With Biden, if he drops, I agree with you.
    It'll be interesting to see if the electorate finds a woman or a gay man more palatable as a candidate. It'd result in our first First Man either way though!
    Human progress isn't measured by industry. It's measured by the value you place on a life.

    Just, be kind.

  18. #6438
    Quote Originally Posted by Blur4stuff View Post
    I agree with the Hillary comparison. Nominating Buttigieg, Klobuchar, etc... would like repeating 2016. I think Trump would still lose because he's gone out of his way to be a terrible president, but the final vote count would be a lot closer than with Sanders.
    This is more a question if you think voters didn't like Hillary for her corporate moderate-ness, or because she had 30 years of Republican phony investigations into her that tarnished her likability.

    I'd say it's probably more of the latter (with other mistakes like ignoring the blue wall, etc), than the former. Most voters in this country ARE MODERATES. You present a boring, moderate Dem as opposed to Trump, there's gonna be voters in the middle who've felt left behind who might vote for that person. The mythical Independent vote, so to speak.

  19. #6439
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Bad signs for Bernie here honestly. Warren's campaign collapsed and her voters did not immediately go to Bernie, and to top it off he's majorly underperforming outside of his core demographic of College-educated 18-30 year olds.

    He's on track to win the popular vote and lose the nomination.... again.
    Bad signs for Democrats across the board to be honest. Turnout seems to be underwhelming and not the big unite-against-Trump they were hoping for.
    BASIC CAMPFIRE for WARCHIEF UK Prime Minister!

  20. #6440
    CNN tried to fuck them both with this drama. They're gonna support the corporate hack that is Buttigieg now, cause Biden seems to be donezo ... by his own hand.

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