Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Zaydin]

It'll be ironic if Trump got himself impeached because he was afraid of Biden and Biden ends up not being the Democratic nominee.

Regardless, given the top two tonight were Sanders and Buttigieg I can predict what conservative attack ads will be.

With Sanders it's a no brainer; Republican voters aren't particularly bright and are stuck in a Cold War mentality so they'll just show Bernie in front of a hammer and sickle with Soviet style music playing while warning about the dangers of 'teh ebil socialism!!!'.

Buttigieg will probably be 'If we elect a gay man President, God will turn his back on America!' or something along those lines because conservatives still haven't figured out they've lost on gay rights even with the 180 degree turn Americans views have made towards gay rights in the 16 years since 2004 when it was a successful wedge issue for Bush 2.

[Fugus]

It'll be interesting to see if the electorate finds a woman or a gay man more palatable as a candidate. It'd result in our first First Man either way though!

Yeah, that would be funny, but don't under estimate the racist right (Not calling all right leaning people racists but you do play buddy/buddy with them for votes and make excuses for dog whistles).

And as I said a few times and went into detail on another post. There is a REALLY strong chance that this election will not be a legitimate one with a greater than 50% chance of flat out ballot stuffing and rigged machines.

[Zaydin]

Bad signs for Democrats across the board to be honest. Turnout seems to be underwhelming and not the big unite-against-Trump they were hoping for.

It's only the second primary/caucus out of 50. Pretty early to be predicting doom and gloom when it's still also a fairly crowded race.

[Fugus]

Bad signs for Democrats across the board to be honest. Turnout seems to be underwhelming and not the big unite-against-Trump they were hoping for.

While the turn out in the general will be huge, one thing to take into account.

Right after the blue wave of 2018, the Democrats responded to that by changing their rules to attempt to keep Sanders people out of it. They changed the rules so anyone that helps against an incumbent is blacklisted by the party. That probably cost them voters among the base with such blatant attempts to play favorites plus the actions of 2016 that many still claim didn't happen.

So the turnout in the general I expect to be massive, the primaries though, could have a depressed turn out over that combined with how they already tried to shove biden down our throats at the start followed by giving Bloomberg unearned credibility due to his funding only.

[rogueMatthias]

It'll be ironic if Trump got himself impeached because he was afraid of Biden and Biden ends up not being the Democratic nominee..

Biden was never going to be the nominee. He was never a contender.

Everyone's been playing along that he would be the clear winner because the Ukraine business is more damaging to Trump that way. He's already lost this competition TWICE before and that was back when he was a little sharper. Even Obama refused to endorse him.

So the turnout in the general I expect to be massive, the primaries though, could have a depressed turn out over that combined with how they already tried to shove biden down our throats at the start followed by giving Bloomberg unearned credibility due to his funding only.

I think that depression will carry over into the Election. I seem to be one of the few round here that's HIGHLY sceptical that any Democrat can win on just a "anyone but Trump" message.
If we're not seeing real passion and turnout for the candidates yet I think that should be very troubling for Democrats.

[Telogrus]

It's honestly telling about the sad state of the country that she's being beaten by Pete and Klobuchar. Apparently Americans would prefer a nobody with no ostensible principles just because they happen to be noncontroversial. Sounds about white, I guess.

Swear to Christ if the Midwest gives us a losing candidate I'm done with flyover country. It goes in the "DNI" category with the South in terms of nuisances to be dealt with rather than projects to be worked on.

Upper middle class white liberals are in love with Pete because he acts like Obama. They eat it up, and a lot of them don’t even know his policies.

[Zaydin]

Biden was never going to be the nominee. He was never a contender.

Everyone's been playing along that he would be the clear winner because the Ukraine business is more damaging to Trump that way. He's already lost this competition TWICE before and that was back when he was a little sharper. Even Obama refused to endorse him.

Honestly, so long as the nominee isn't a DINO like Gabbard (Which is an extreme longshot anyways) I'll vote for them simply because Trump is so much worse. I'd rather have a moderate Democrat who I agree with on 75% of the issues in the White House than have a nominee I agree with on 100% of the issues who loses to Trump. As it is, I'm still undecided and my states primary isn't for another month.

Without a Democratic presidency and Congress, we can't start repairing the damage Trump and the GOP have inflicted on the country.

[Elegiac]

Upper middle class white liberals are in love with Pete because he acts like Obama. They eat it up, and a lot of them don’t even know his policies.

Yeah, but on the other hand at least he isn't an anthropomorphized Che Guevara t-shirt.

[Shadowferal]

hmf...as long as Trump loses...I want to see him lose his shit...and eat it.

[Sunseeker]

While the turn out in the general will be huge, one thing to take into account.

Right after the blue wave of 2018, the Democrats responded to that by changing their rules to attempt to keep Sanders people out of it. They changed the rules so anyone that helps against an incumbent is blacklisted by the party. That probably cost them voters among the base with such blatant attempts to play favorites plus the actions of 2016 that many still claim didn't happen.

So the turnout in the general I expect to be massive, the primaries though, could have a depressed turn out over that combined with how they already tried to shove biden down our throats at the start followed by giving Bloomberg unearned credibility due to his funding only.

Right, primaries are still something of a party night where we're tossing the ball around and if we're smart, we don't start shooting each other over it. A lot of us don't really give a shit who the big "D" is this go around. I mean yeah I care, I'd love it to be Sanders, I'd coolio with Warren, I could swallow Pete (pun intended *wink wink*), I could stomach Amy, and I could probably even live through the 6 seconds of horrific near-death pain that voting for Bloomberg would cause me.

But I'm not terribly interested in playing the primary game. We'll see when my meaningless state comes up (Wyoming).

[rogueMatthias]

Upper middle class white liberals are in love with Pete because he acts like Obama. They eat it up, and a lot of them don’t even know his policies.

Does he though? Maybe a cosplay Obama.
Obama oozed charisma, charm, confidence and was a natural statesman. I just don't see these in Pete.

[Zaydin]

Bad signs for Democrats across the board to be honest. Turnout seems to be underwhelming and not the big unite-against-Trump they were hoping for.

Actually I need to address this again. Turnout underwhelming? I'm seeing comments on other sites saying turnout was UP by 20% compared to 2016. Need to find a definitive source but if it turns out to be true, can you really claim it's underwhelming turnout?

[Fugus]

I think that depression will carry over into the Election. I seem to be one of the few round here that's HIGHLY sceptical that any Democrat can win on just a "anyone but Trump" message.
If we're not seeing real passion and turnout for the candidates yet I think that should be very troubling for Democrats.

While I don't put it past the Democrats to actively sabotage Sanders in the general to make him lose because they actively act like they would rather lose to Trump than win with Sanders who actually wants to fix stuff.

Sanders wouldn't be running on the "Anyone but Trump" mantra. He actually has popular views that work across the isle to many, they just don't know about it for many of them. If he actually wins the primary, they HAVE to start talking about it in the general. And when they start talking about these:

1) Taxing all income above $250,000 as income regardless of source so they top can't evade taxes.

2) Add a new tax bracket for those making over $10 million a year.

3) Medicare for All which is estimated to save over 3 trillion a year while giving better coverage and outcomes.

4) Money out of politics.

That would help his support greatly. And remember, this actually brings in non-standard voters which normally stay home.

But as I said before, this might all be for nothing as the FBI and FEC are blocked from looking into the 2020 election while Trump has been given the green light to commit crimes during it for his benefit.

[Zaydin]

While I don't put it past the Democrats to actively sabotage Sanders in the general to make him lose because they actively act like they would rather lose to Trump than win with Sanders who actually wants to fix stuff.

Sanders wouldn't be running on the "Anyone but Trump" mantra. He actually has popular views that work across the isle to many, they just don't know about it for many of them. If he actually wins the primary, they HAVE to start talking about it in the general. And when they start talking about these:

1) Taxing all income above $250,000 as income regardless of source so they top can't evade taxes.

2) Add a new tax bracket for those making over $10 million a year.

3) Medicare for All which is estimated to save over 3 trillion a year while giving better coverage and outcomes.

4) Money out of politics.

That would help his support greatly. And remember, this actually brings in non-standard voters which normally stay home.

But as I said before, this might all be for nothing as the FBI and FEC are blocked from looking into the 2020 election while Trump has been given the green light to commit crimes during it for his benefit.

The problem with Bernie is his whole 'socialist' label. A lot of Baby Boomers are stuck in a Cold Warrior mindset and are opposed to 'teh ebil of socialism!' without actually really knowing what socialism is.

The attack ads against Bernie would just be him standing in front of a hammer and sickle with a Soviet-era anthem playing.

[Fugus]

The problem with Bernie is his whole 'socialist' label. A lot of Baby Boomers are stuck in a Cold Warrior mindset and are opposed to 'teh ebil of socialism!' without actually really knowing what socialism is.

The attack ads against Bernie would just be him standing in front of a hammer and sickle with a Soviet-era anthem playing.

Yeah, the red scare works on the boomers but lost it's impact to the majority of the nation, especially with how it is thrown at everything they dislike. The policies though, that breaks through that when you discuss that and they actually bring in more voters who typically stay home.

Especially when he can point out how Trump is asking to cut their social security, medicare, and medicaid.

[Zaydin]

Yeah, the red scare works on the boomers but lost it's impact to the majority of the nation, especially with how it is thrown at everything they dislike. The policies though, that breaks through that when you discuss that and they actually bring in more voters who typically stay home.

Especially when he can point out how Trump is asking to cut their social security, medicare, and medicaid.

Thing is that the Trump cult are utterly devoted to him. You can point out to them how Trump is actively screwing them over and they don't care. They'll find some way to either rationalize it as being actually good or just pull a Trump and declare the reporting 'Fake news'. It's just like their response to almost every poll for Trump; they are all fake unless it has good news for Trump.

They are unreachable and irredeemable.

[rogueMatthias]

But as I said before, this might all be for nothing as the FBI and FEC are blocked from looking into the 2020 election...

Well as Clinton undoubtadly lost the election because of Comey then I'm not sure that's entirely a bad thing.

[Fugus]

Thing is that the Trump cult are utterly devoted to him. You can point out to them how Trump is actively screwing them over and they don't care. They'll find some way to either rationalize it as being actually good or just pull a Trump and declare the reporting 'Fake news'. It's just like their response to almost every poll for Trump; they are all fake unless it has good news for Trump.

They are unreachable and irredeemable.

Trumps base are yes, I have too many of them who are family and friends, it is almost like a religion to them where if they facts are against him, its the facts that are wrong.

They aren't the ones you are trying to reach, it is the other people who actually can reason and that Sanders actually motivates when his polices are heard that you want to reach.

Sanders gets out unlikely voters and he is what Trump pretended to be.

- - - Updated - - -

Well as Clinton undoubtadly lost the election because of Comey then I'm not sure that's entirely a bad thing.

Combine that with how the Senate ruled a president can commit extortion, election interference and other crimes that directly benefit him and you can see just how bad that goes.

Trumps 3rd KNOWN attempt at election interference with the green light from the Senate and the FBI and FEW hogtied in the basement.

This might be a"Russian" style democratic election.

[Zaydin]

Well as Clinton undoubtadly lost the election because of Comey then I'm not sure that's entirely a bad thing.

How is it not a bad thing? It helped saddle us with Trump for gods sake. This notion that Hillary would have been as bad as Trump is just insane.

[Fugus]

How is it not a bad thing? It helped saddle us with Trump for gods sake. This notion that Hillary would have been as bad as Trump is just insane.

I think you read that wrong.

He was pointing out how Clinton would have likely won without Comey. I was pointing out how Trump can actively cheat with impunity with the FBI and FEC tied down and the Senates blessing