BWL world first progression thread

[Tonkaden]

Not really the most time spent is coming up with tactics following ready made ones isn't note worthy

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Not really I don't expect anything will be challenging they have been doing these fights for 15 years and are on 1.12 it's kind of a joke honestly.

Releasing on 1.12 with the gear updates and class balances was the worst thing they could have done. They will probably do the same if they release TBC. Kinda sad honestly.

[OrcsRLame]

Not really the most time spent is coming up with tactics following ready made ones isn't note worthy

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Not really I don't expect anything will be challenging they have been doing these fights for 15 years and are on 1.12 it's kind of a joke honestly.

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No it's honestly not BWL is puggable with the level of hear available and the patch talents are on.

Naxx was originally on 1.12

[Xath]

Releasing on 1.12 with the gear updates and ass balances was the worst thing they could have done. They will probably do the same if they release TBC. Kinda sad honestly.

Yep BC with the mega nerf patch such fun lol

[Tonkaden]

Naxx was originally on 1.12

We aren’t talking about naxx are we? Did it release while I was logged out?

[Xath]

Naxx was originally on 1.12

BWL sure as fuck wasn't. Again the most time spent came from coming up with strats. Much like Limit and Method will soon be 1 day clearing with splits for making gold for the expac these guilds have been doing these fights for 15 years a farm speed clear isn't impressive.

[munkeyinorbit]

Mythic raids are much more difficult than anything in Vanilla. There are really only like 4-5 tough fights in classic and all but 1 are in Naxx. I don't think any of these top classic guilds would compete with Method or Limit in retail. I could be wrong though, they are good players but they are doing it against bosses with 15 years of experience and knowledge.

Are you trying to compare players who have trained on the same bosses for years, maybe up to 15 years with raiders who clear content 177 times more difficult every single 6 months? Lfr players are better than see guys.

[FelPlague]

Original BWL lasted 3.5 months but with better experience it'll probably take 4-5 days.

30 minutes... i guess that is close to 4-5 days.

[OrcsRLame]

We aren’t talking about naxx are we? Did it release while I was logged out?

The person I was responding to was talking about naxx. Learn to read.

[Tojara]

If it was on the correct patch, it would still get destroyed, you would just have to add like 5-10 minutes to clear times probably.

Beyond knowing every little thing about the game and it's raids (which isn't much), people still fail to realize that this game just can't be compared because mentality has shifted. Look at PvP. When PvP was first released nobody knew exactly how it worked, and it was much less common to have people doing dodgy tactics like queue dodging, or maximizing honor per hour. Now it's common practice because people have been doing this shit on private servers for a decade and the inner workings of the system is completely fleshed out.

PvE is exactly the same. Not only do people know the bosses inside and out, but people don't need to deal with buggy game either. Mentality shift changes the difficulty of classic WoW pretty hard, regardless of whether or not you lived on private severs, or have been part of most expansion launches. When I played 15 years ago we had monkeys who had no idea how to gear themselves and now you have people who actually get excited when green items that give +healing, or +damage to a specific caster school. Before you just had ignorant people who wore tier sets just because it was blue or epic, regardless of whether it was good or not. Don't even get me started on %hit or weapon skill. 15 years ago you might have had a fraction of the people in Winterspring farming melee consumables, while these days it's not uncommon to see more than a dozen people in that area 24 hours a day. Then finally you arrive at world buffs. Do you know how rampant it was early in WoW for people to save these items before a raid started, instead of just turning them immediately to get your reward? Yeah, that barely happened, and most people only took advantage of that towards the end of Vanilla.

So lets put this altogether. 15 year old game, bugs removed, zero mystery, players with actual consumables, and rampant use of world buffs and people are going to sit here saying that the big reason is it's running on the 1.12 client? Don't get me wrong, player power is certainly increased on the 1.12 patch cycle, but people are still going to blow this content out of the water regardless of what patch cycle they decided to use. The only way you make this content difficult is by lining people up and pushing them down the stairs to give them brain damage.

This isn't me shitting on classic. I raided 15 years ago and I actually raid on classic as well, but for different reasons. For people to be surprised or to still make excuses as to why clearing BWL in <1 hour is possible dumbfounds me though. AQ40 and Naxxaramas are going to fall extremely quickly too. Not <30 minutes quick, but it's still going to get stomped. There are several bosses spanning both AQ40 and Naxx that would be around first week heroic difficulty by today's standards, but it's still not going to be hard.

[Gaidax]

How's that super hardcore Vanilla experience going?

[OrcsRLame]

BWL sure as fuck wasn't. Again the most time spent came from coming up with strats. Much like Limit and Method will soon be 1 day clearing with splits for making gold for the expac these guilds have been doing these fights for 15 years a farm speed clear isn't impressive.

You've forgotten what the question was about.

When/if naxx gets cleared day 1, on the 1.12 patch, which was its original patch, what will be your excuse then?

[Lollis]

You've forgotten what the question was about.

When/if naxx gets cleared day 1, on the 1.12 patch, which was its original patch, what will be your excuse then?

Ignoring the question for the moment, 1.12 wasn't the naxx patch. Naxxramas was released in 1.11.

[OrcsRLame]

Ignoring the question for the moment, 1.12 wasn't the naxx patch. Naxxramas was released in 1.11.

What changes were made from 1.11 to 1.12? Genuinely curious.

[Drusin]

What changes were made from 1.11 to 1.12? Genuinely curious.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Patch_1.12.0

There's a bunch, my forehead isn't big enough to know if it makes a significant difference

[Sliske]

Boys, its time to wrap up the meme that 'vanilla wuz hard.' We gave you the benefit of the doubt, because it was MC after all which was being 15 man pugged back in the day, but now its BWL.

43 minutes. By multiple guilds. Pugs are on boss 4 right now.

Imagine if Ny'alotha was cleared in 43 minutes.

This will happen in ZG.

This will happen in AQ 20.

This will happen in AQ 40.

This will happen in Naxxramas.

Vanilla is a joke. LFR raids are considerably harder than anything in Vanilla.

[OrcsRLame]

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Patch_1.12.0

There's a bunch, my forehead isn't big enough to know if it makes a significant difference

Looking over it, the most significant thing seems to be a buff to rogue damage, which wouldn't make much difference as warriors are better in naxx anyway. Most things there are bug fixes and also some small nerfs to things like threat reduction abilities. If it was done on 1.11 you would just stack even more warriors.

[WashedUpRaider]

Boys, its time to wrap up the meme that 'vanilla wuz hard.' We gave you the benefit of the doubt, because it was MC after all which was being 15 man pugged back in the day, but now its BWL.

43 minutes. By multiple guilds. Pugs are on boss 4 right now.

Imagine if Ny'alotha was cleared in 43 minutes.

This will happen in ZG.

This will happen in AQ 20.

This will happen in AQ 40.

This will happen in Naxxramas.

Vanilla is a joke. LFR raids are considerably harder than anything in Vanilla.

I wouldnt say LFR is harder... Can you even wipe on LFR? And thats with no comms other than chat.

[Koniwej]

I can't speak on the difficulty of retail's raids because I don't raid in retail currently. Unlike a lot of people in this thread, I try not to speak on things I know little about. :P

But for the areas I *do* have experience in? It's not even a question that Classic is more difficult.






Nothing you've said in any way contradicts my argument?

lmao what areas do you have more experience in? Questing mobs on live have more mechanics than vanilla raid bosses.

[OrcsRLame]

I wouldnt say LFR is harder... Can you even wipe on LFR? And thats with no comms other than chat.

You can definitely wipe in LFR. Last boss of a tier usually ends up being a clusterfuck in pugs that leads to at least 5 stacks of determination. It gets worse if you do it later in the week too.

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I can't speak on the difficulty of retail's raids because I don't raid in retail currently. Unlike a lot of people in this thread, I try not to speak on things I know little about. :P

But for the areas I *do* have experience in? It's not even a question that Classic is more difficult.






Nothing you've said in any way contradicts my argument?

You should educate yourself on mythic raiding then. Here's an explanation done by Sco of pre nerf mythic Kil'jaeden from Tomb of Sargeras.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SR_WAuiTMRs

This one is good too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wUGSLW_x4I8

[Matiketope]

Boys, its time to wrap up the meme that 'vanilla wuz hard.' We gave you the benefit of the doubt, because it was MC after all which was being 15 man pugged back in the day, but now its BWL.

43 minutes. By multiple guilds. Pugs are on boss 4 right now.

Imagine if Ny'alotha was cleared in 43 minutes.

This will happen in ZG.

This will happen in AQ 20.

This will happen in AQ 40.

This will happen in Naxxramas.

Vanilla is a joke. LFR raids are considerably harder than anything in Vanilla.

You mean classic? A biig difference if you understand how the real world works.

Blackwing Lair
BWL was released with patch 1.6 and it took 77 days to down Nefarian. Bosses from all over Azeroth are being kited to Vael's room to this day.

The Temple of Ahn’qiraj
To open the two Ahn'Qiraj raids the server had to cooperate through a world event which took a very long time to complete on some servers. C'thun is also one of the most memorable bosses from WoW and lived 113 days.

Naxxramas
The raid was added in patch 1.11 and was the last 40 man instance. Kel'thuzad stayed alive for 90 days and 52.34% of tanks made the Thaddius jump.