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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    I believe that the union between nightborne and blood elves is complementary reinforcing every aspect of the other
    I disagree that it is. The union is nice, but it is overlap. The nightborne are just more advanced arcane users. The blood elves already have strong arcane magic,it's more a supercede than a compliment. Potentially the nightborne could bring chronomancy to the table, but we have no idea the levels an average Nightborne can do and what that brings to the table..

    It's with the Darnassians they would have played a more complimentary role, hastening the return of a fuller and more expansive arcane side catapulting it to a populous state that was comparable to the pre-WoT kaldorei priest caste and druidic order.

  2. #42
    you are right on my man and i think this was intended by blizzard. in many ways the blood elf story is a warning to us about the rise of fascism. the quel'dorei were the greatest and noblest of elfs but when push came to shove they turned silvermoon into a wheel of the horde and wholly embraced right-wing nationalism, convincing themselves it was the only way for their "supreme race" to survive, hoarding all the mana for the wealthy few while leaving the commoners to literally wither away and die.

    wow is full of stories like these, the "best" of us are the ones who fall, and its the commoner who has to stand up against the oppressive forces these former heroes become. sargeras, kil'jaeden and archimonde, arthas, kael'thas, etc etc. and silvermoon is no different.

    now that in bfa blizzard has fully embraced the sin'dorei as the fascist military dictatorship they were always designed to be, and set up the communist void elves as their foil. theres a lot of cool symbolism; the shining golden towers of silvermoon are a monument to a civilization that has reached the apex of decadent decline, while the shadowy, seemingly corrupt void elves are the ones who have embraced the righteous cause of socialism and seek to restore power to the individual elf.

    in many ways, the void elves are the new heroes of the wow narrative.
    they hated sillag because he told them the truth

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhlor View Post
    The blood elves at the military level are the best, but mainly at the military level that in a world like Azeroth is very important.

    The nightborne at the military level are not so good but they have very practical uses for their magic that makes them very useful.

    I believe that the union between nightborne and blood elves is complementary reinforcing every aspect of the other
    And they have common passions. I wish naga joined them too but current blood elf leadership has issues with use of void magic.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by sillag View Post
    the quel'dorei were the greatest and noblest of elfs
    What lol?

    They have always were the most arrogant, selfish, and obnoxious breed of the various elves. From the war of the ancients, to their refusal to give up magic leading to their exile, to their ethnic cleansing of the trolls and colonisation of their lands, to their apathy towards external affairs in the EK, to their transition to Belves, to their abuse of Naaru etc etc etc.

    The only reason this sense of 'nobleness' is attributed to them is because they are obviously physically inspired by tolkein elves lol, very few of their actions are actually 'noble'.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Temp1on2 View Post
    What lol?

    They have always were the most arrogant, selfish, and obnoxious breed of the various elves. From the war of the ancients, to their refusal to give up magic leading to their exile, to their ethnic cleansing of the trolls and colonisation of their lands, to their apathy towards external affairs in the EK, to their transition to Belves, to their abuse of Naaru etc etc etc.

    The only reason this sense of 'nobleness' is attributed to them is because they are obviously physically inspired by tolkein elves lol, very few of their actions are actually 'noble'.
    thats what im saying dude their "greatness" is ironic. silvermoon is basically a capitalist society taken to its ultimate conclusion and the result is a toxic cesspool where everyone is out for themselves, drunk on personal wealth, magical power, and giant statues of themselves, and the only force capable of unifying them is waging war on whatever enemy the state identifies to target their aggression towards.

    meanwhile the night elves deposed the aristocracy and kicked them off the continent, scoring mad socialism style points. its no coincidence that when blizzard wanted to paint the horde as an evil fascist war machine, they had them destroy the world's only socialist utopia.

    i mean people like the op who are deciding who the "best elves are" based on who has the coolest looking magical shit are frankly dumb. the only measure of a society's virtue is how much that society embraces socialism.
    they hated sillag because he told them the truth

  6. #46
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenJesus View Post
    "If you want to play a blue eyed blond elf, the horde is there waiting for you." - Ion fuzzykoalas.
    Except there is no blue eye blonde elf....so I don't know what you're talking about.

  7. #47
    They also have gnome slaves, which makes them an immediate shoe-in for the winner. I don't know how people say they don't "fit" with the Horde.
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Keelen_Sheets

    Being freed from magic addiction and embracing a new path of the Light instead is great and all, but how else will they get the latest fashions cheap?
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by sillag View Post
    thats what im saying dude their "greatness" is ironic. silvermoon is basically a capitalist society taken to its ultimate conclusion and the result is a toxic cesspool where everyone is out for themselves, drunk on personal wealth, magical power, and giant statues of themselves, and the only force capable of unifying them is waging war on whatever enemy the state identifies to target their aggression towards.

    meanwhile the night elves deposed the aristocracy and kicked them off the continent, scoring mad socialism style points. its no coincidence that when blizzard wanted to paint the horde as an evil fascist war machine, they had them destroy the world's only socialist utopia.

    i mean people like the op who are deciding who the "best elves are" based on who has the coolest looking magical shit are frankly dumb. the only measure of a society's virtue is how much that society embraces socialism.
    I mean you say that when there was a city called zin'azshari.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Koniwej View Post
    I mean you say that when there was a city called zin'azshari.
    exactly dude see you're getting it

    the highborne had made their capitalist empire and destroyed the world, and when the night elves decided maybe they'd try a world without the aristocracy and see what that looked like, the aristocracy couldnt take the idea of being equal to the proletariat and got themselves exiled, whereupon they painstakingly recreated the exact same society that destroyed the world and, surprising no one, fell into decline and birthed a few of history's greatest tyrants along the way
    they hated sillag because he told them the truth

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by sillag View Post
    exactly dude see you're getting it

    the highborne had made their capitalist empire and destroyed the world, and when the night elves decided maybe they'd try a world without the aristocracy and see what that looked like, the aristocracy couldnt take the idea of being equal to the proletariat and got themselves exiled, whereupon they painstakingly recreated the exact same society that destroyed the world and, surprising no one, fell into decline and birthed a few of history's greatest tyrants along the way
    I see it more like nelves were obnoxious vegans and people just left cus, who wants to deal with them?

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Laughs in Forsaken.
    Cult of Forgotten Shadows?

  12. #52
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sillag View Post
    you are right on my man and i think this was intended by blizzard. in many ways the blood elf story is a warning to us about the rise of fascism. the quel'dorei were the greatest and noblest of elfs but when push came to shove they turned silvermoon into a wheel of the horde and wholly embraced right-wing nationalism, convincing themselves it was the only way for their "supreme race" to survive, hoarding all the mana for the wealthy few while leaving the commoners to literally wither away and die.

    wow is full of stories like these, the "best" of us are the ones who fall, and its the commoner who has to stand up against the oppressive forces these former heroes become. sargeras, kil'jaeden and archimonde, arthas, kael'thas, etc etc. and silvermoon is no different.

    now that in bfa blizzard has fully embraced the sin'dorei as the fascist military dictatorship they were always designed to be, and set up the communist void elves as their foil. theres a lot of cool symbolism; the shining golden towers of silvermoon are a monument to a civilization that has reached the apex of decadent decline, while the shadowy, seemingly corrupt void elves are the ones who have embraced the righteous cause of socialism and seek to restore power to the individual elf.

    in many ways, the void elves are the new heroes of the wow narrative.
    on the contrary; the Alliance High Elves were the elite wealthy few who got the mana crystals and they refused to share them with the Blood Elves; and then color me surprised when Lor'themar banished them to the point where they ran like puppies back to the Alliance

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Cult of Forgotten Shadows?
    Yes. Although humans experimented with shadow before, it was Forsaken who mastered it. Undead are immune to maddening whispers of the old gods.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  14. #54
    Legendary! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    I'm about to put a end to this shit right now!......

    ELVES ARE TROLLS WITH FACE LIFTS!!!
    Last edited by Aucald; 2021-01-01 at 01:32 PM.

  15. #55
    I am Murloc! Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Yes. Although humans experimented with shadow before, it was Forsaken who mastered it. Undead are immune to maddening whispers of the old gods.
    They are not.

    There are several undead serving the old gods and the Void can even raise undead
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    I'm about to put a end to this shit right now!......
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    ELVES ARE TROLLS WITH FACE LIFTS!!!


    Erect posture
    5 digit hands and toes
    Capable of full beards and lots of hair
    Fangs instead of tusks
    Eyes that glow (silver, amber, blue or green [fel and emerald], purple]
    Higher magical aptitude and intelligence.

    Lists goes on.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Quote Originally Posted by sillag View Post
    exactly dude see you're getting it
    Quote Originally Posted by sillag View Post

    the highborne had made their capitalist empire and destroyed the world, and when the night elves decided maybe they'd try a world without the aristocracy and see what that looked like, the aristocracy couldnt take the idea of being equal to the proletariat and got themselves exiled, whereupon they painstakingly recreated the exact same society that destroyed the world and, surprising no one, fell into decline and birthed a few of history's greatest tyrants along the way


    1.
    That's NOT how it happened. They didn't go.. "oh we'll try a world without the aristocracy"
    - there were many highborne amongst other castes in the retreat to Hyjal. The complete shif twas a result of needing to ban arcane magic to prevent the legion returning.

    Without arcane magic and the existential and real threat of the Legion, the ability and desire to rebuild cities, focus on life as before and all the things that had been a part of their existence all had to go.

    They became for that period, martial hutners and defenders, guarding the secret of the Well of Eternity atop the mountain, and hunting all renegade and rogue demon magic users who might once more bring the threat of the legion.

    Once the vigil ended after WC3 final battle, once again we see they come out of isolation and Guardian/Hunter role , start building cities, start using their magic again, reconcile with their estranged aristocratic caste.


    2.[On the high elf progenitors]
    They were NOT a large group of highborne chaffing at the idea of equality...
    the character of Darth'remar proves this. The sunstrider highborne did not behave liek the worse of the hgihborne we read about in WotA, or see of the elites in Suramar. So obviously that is not true.

    The disagreement came upon using magic again. 3k years was enough time to mourn and recover/shed addiction, but going wihtout hteir most powerful tool indefinitely if ways could be found to use it without alerting the legion, was considered by them to be an absolute necessity. Life had to be more than... this, could be, not to mention with hindsight of addiction and the legion in mind, Darth'remar believed the elves could do a better job this time round.

    Malfurion disagreed, the risk of slipping up, too great, and failure meant the end of the world, he attributed such high risk as reckless inclinations borne out of addiction pangs. Darth and his group tried to force the issue with a demsontration, but 3,000 years out of practice showed as the storm went horribly wrong, killing a lot of people, and resulting in the exile.

    3.
    They did NOT try to paistakingly recreat the Exact same society.
    THat is completely wrong. By the end of the exile the y hated so much about the kaldorei, they wanted a much better civilizaton, were all magic would be freely and responsibly wielded, not jsut nature and divine ones, but obviously arcane. Where they would be the custodians doing everything in their power to prevent the legion's return.

    The society they created is not at all like the kaldorei pre-sundeirng one. Quel'thalas civilizaiton may not be as magically advanced as Suramar, but it was far supeiror. THe attitude of the high elves, was much better, their society far freer, happier, more egalistarian (they were all or mostly all from highborne stock). They wanted to achieve better and great things than the Kaldorei had ever done. Be wiser, smarter, without the chronic mistake of Queen Azshara.

    In many ways they succeeded, but by the time they meet up with pre-sundering kaldorei civilziation, like Suramar, they have still not reached the level of advancement the pre-sundering kaldorei civilziation had.

    Who knows, in time, with more peace and less wars they may have. Might have done sooner if it wasn't for all the troll wars, and then the humans leading the legion back.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Suramar and Eldre'thalas are the ones that continue in the pre-sundering civilization of the night elves. The High elves create a new civilization, a brighter, day based, new life, new role, new me sortof thing.

    They are NOT the same, jsut because they both use arcane magic alot.. sheesh.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2021-01-01 at 01:33 PM.

  17. #57
    Legendary! Dellis0991's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post


    Erect posture
    5 digit hands and toes
    Capable of full beards and lots of hair
    Fangs instead of tusks
    Eyes that glow (silver, amber, blue or green [fel and emerald], purple]
    Higher magical aptitude and intelligence.

    Lists goes on.

    - - - Updated - - -




    1.
    That's NOT how it happened. They didn't go.. "oh we'll try a world without the aristocracy"
    - there were many highborne amongst other castes in the retreat to Hyjal. The complete shif twas a result of needing to ban arcane magic to prevent the legion returning.

    Without arcane magic and the existential and real threat of the Legion, the ability and desire to rebuild cities, focus on life as before and all the things that had been a part of their existence all had to go.

    They became for that period, martial hutners and defenders, guarding the secret of the Well of Eternity atop the mountain, and hunting all renegade and rogue demon magic users who might once more bring the threat of the legion.

    Once the vigil ended after WC3 final battle, once again we see they come out of isolation and Guardian/Hunter role , start building cities, start using their magic again, reconcile with their estranged aristocratic caste.


    2.[On the high elf progenitors]
    They were NOT a large group of highborne chaffing at the idea of equality...
    the character of Darth'remar proves this. The sunstrider highborne did not behave liek the worse of the hgihborne we read about in WotA, or see of the elites in Suramar. So obviously that is not true.

    The disagreement came upon using magic again. 3k years was enough time to mourn and recover/shed addiction, but going wihtout hteir most powerful tool indefinitely if ways could be found to use it without alerting the legion, was considered by them to be an absolute necessity. Life had to be more than... this, could be, not to mention with hindsight of addiction and the legion in mind, Darth'remar believed the elves could do a better job this time round.

    Malfurion disagreed, the risk of slipping up, too great, and failure meant the end of the world, he attributed such high risk as reckless inclinations borne out of addiction pangs. Darth and his group tried to force the issue with a demsontration, but 3,000 years out of practice showed as the storm went horribly wrong, killing a lot of people, and resulting in the exile.

    3.
    They did NOT try to paistakingly recreat the Exact same society.
    THat is completely wrong. By the end of the exile the y hated so much about the kaldorei, they wanted a much better civilizaton, were all magic would be freely and responsibly wielded, not jsut nature and divine ones, but obviously arcane. Where they would be the custodians doing everything in their power to prevent the legion's return.

    The society they created is not at all like the kaldorei pre-sundeirng one. Quel'thalas civilizaiton may not be as magically advanced as Suramar, but it was far supeiror. THe attitude of the high elves, was much better, their society far freer, happier, more egalistarian (they were all or mostly all from highborne stock). They wanted to achieve better and great things than the Kaldorei had ever done. Be wiser, smarter, without the chronic mistake of Queen Azshara.

    In many ways they succeeded, but by the time they meet up with pre-sundering kaldorei civilziation, like Suramar, they have still not reached the level of advancement the pre-sundering kaldorei civilziation had.

    Who knows, in time, with more peace and less wars they may have. Might have done sooner if it wasn't for all the troll wars, and then the humans leading the legion back.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Suramar and Eldre'thalas are the ones that continue in the pre-sundering civilization of the night elves. The High elves create a new civilization, a brighter, day based, new life, new role, new me sortof thing.

    They are NOT the same, jsut because they both use arcane magic alot.. sheesh.
    Elune and the well took a scalpel to some some trolls.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellis0991 View Post
    Elune and the well took a scalpel to some some trolls.
    Rofl.. It still annoys elf fans to this day.

    me included

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by sillag View Post
    thats what im saying dude their "greatness" is ironic. silvermoon is basically a capitalist society taken to its ultimate conclusion and the result is a toxic cesspool where everyone is out for themselves, drunk on personal wealth, magical power, and giant statues of themselves, and the only force capable of unifying them is waging war on whatever enemy the state identifies to target their aggression towards.
    A capitalist society "taken to its ultimate conclusion" would be laissez-faire. War would be anathema to such a society, because wars destroy wealth. Such a society would prefer to resolve its problems by trade. In such a society, the State would be unable to prosecute a war of its own making, because it would be unable to compel its citizenry to become soldiers.

    Blood elf society is not capitalistic, at the very least its political aspect. The culture is isolationist, jingoistic, militaristic, and toe the governance of a monarchy/regency. These are collectivist characteristics would not present in an ultimate capitalist society. Historically and by definition, these are socialistic artifacts.

    Fascism is not capitalistic. Fascism is a form of socialism (communism is another one). Socialism's kernel is the notion that the group (e.g., the tribe, the nation, the working class, "nature") is the rightful owner of wealth. Fascism proposes to practice theory by having the State control production (regulatory regime). Communism proposes to do it by having the State own production (nationalization). Fascism is nation-oriented socialism. It is an implementation detail.

    In contrast, Kaldorei society in Teldrassil was capitalistic - at least more so than the Sin'dorei. They permit intercontinental trade, and neither State nor culture inflict societal obligations on individual elves. The existential mood in night elven society is to live and let live. This is a capitalistic characteristic: that the individual, not the group, is the primary unit of existence. From the Gamepedia article regarding a description of Kalidar (now Teldrassil) in official literature:

    A sprawling city of moonstone and wood, the night elf capital of Darnassus stands as a shining beacon atop Kalidar. [...] Trade from the main continent bustles through the city's trade quarter, where night elves, dwarves and humans alike haggle for wares and services. Delicate bridges and pathways crisscross the serene waterways of the city, the pristine waters reflecting the glowing light from the moons above.

    In a socialist utopia (socialism taken to its ultimate conclusion), trade would not be countenanced, because it would disrupt the socialist equilibrium. Trade deficits or surpluses will be seen as displacing the collective's wealth, incentivize profit-making ("greed", outsourcing, etc.), encourage immigration/emigration, etc.

    the only measure of a society's virtue is how much that society embraces socialism.
    The source of virtue (productivity, efficacy) is the individual. Socialism holds that the primary unit of existence is the group - not the individual. The degree in which a society embraces the moral ideal that the individual is subordinate to will of the group -- "To each according to his need, from each according to his ability" -- is inversely proportional to its virtue.
    Last edited by CapitalistPig; 2020-02-13 at 07:44 PM.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    They are not.

    There are several undead serving the old gods and the Void can even raise undead
    This is something different. Undead resurrected by death magic is immune to Void whispers.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

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