Does anyone else feel this tier was just....

[Queen of Hamsters]

People using the term "P2W" without understanding what it means from neither experience nor information...

Must be a day ending with a y.

And this tier ain't over for me, nor for the vast VAST majority of guilds. Fact.

I mean, LOOK at how P2W it is, Method bought all them BOEs and even took loans to do so, they got the wi... ooh, right...
And Limit got the win due to their efforts, they didn't pay to secure the win. They paid for an edge, at best.

[Daymanmb]

I mean, LOOK at how P2W it is, Method bought all them BOEs and even took loans to do so, they got the wi... ooh, right...
And Limit got the win due to their efforts, they didn't pay to secure the win. They paid for an edge, at best.

"oNe GuIlD pAiD tO wIn BuT aNoTheR dIdNt" Nice example.. So, youre saying if there was a cash shop, with corrupted gear for real money and Method used that route to gain an advantage, but Limit didnt, that it wouldnt be pay to win, if Method didnt win the race to world first?

[Elias01]

"oNe GuIlD pAiD tO wIn BuT aNoTheR dIdNt" Nice example.. So, youre saying if there was a cash shop, with corrupted gear for real money and Method used that route to gain an advantage, but Limit didnt, that it wouldnt be pay to win, if Method didnt win the race to world first?

Yes thats what he is saying. As long you dont beat boss buying power is ok to get some edge. Clearly Blizz can just put rng lootboxes with gear into cashshop and people would be ok with it BEcOus yOu aRE bUyiNg eDGe NOt BoSs KiLL. Back in my days even buying cosmetics were considered pay2win.

[MrLachyG]

On the other hand, it always felt bad then something didn't proc. Boss dropped BIS trinket and it's 20ilvl upgrade but didn't tf/no socket and I was like - meh.

well corruption effects should go away with the end of this expansion and I hope they don't add anything extra. as for sockets/bonus stats I think they should remove the socket chance on gear but make it a profession item that can be crafted and used on 2-3 pieces of gear to add a socket in it. similar to what can happen now with the item Wrathion sells but crafted instead. the bonus stat of either avoidance, leech or speed isn't a big enough bonus for people to continually run the same thing over and over again to warrant it but it's just added as a nice little bonus

[unlockedz]

ah yes...p2w, a regular pug noob like me got 2.2k score on s3, got into a boost community and i made more than 1.2mil in about 9 days by boosting m+ (like 2-3 average dungeons per day), you're telling me actual guilds in top 100 that try to boost or are in boost communities buy tokens to sell for gold so they can buy boes?
that's delusional. they make so much from boosts i'd be suprised if they weren't banking gold selling sites (like there's almost no way they aren't, fuckers must be swimming in it), why would they buy tokens with real money?

[Steelangel]

The above said! Anyone else feels this tier was just Pay2Win, Buggy, Underwhelming, Untested, Rushed out of the gates mess?

Pay2win? What?
Buggy? Slightly more than average.
Underwhelming? I was "whelmed".
Untested? There was a PTR.
Rushed out of the Gates? Some parts. Aspirant gear and Glad gear is exactly the same. You can get a full set of RF xmog from the first quest series!
Mess? Kind of.

[friedmudkipz]

People using the term "P2W" without understanding what it means from neither experience nor information...

Must be a day ending with a y.

And this tier ain't over for me, nor for the vast VAST majority of guilds. Fact.

I mean, LOOK at how P2W it is, Method bought all them BOEs and even took loans to do so, they got the wi... ooh, right...
And Limit got the win due to their efforts, they didn't pay to secure the win. They paid for an edge, at best.

Strange argument to use when Limit went 250m in debt and outspent Method.

Like OP, not trying to derail with Limit vs. Method but the amount of buyable power this tier was insane. Imagine (properly tuned) EN with tradeable legendaries. Imo it's just a symptom of the ridiculous amount of variance in loot power due to corruption rather than the game becoming P2W, but the former beget the latter.

[Gomelus]

Because that is for this tier only. I think it is something that should be implemented into a profession so its available from start to finish. Not just those who grind forever and only get to use it for a little bit.

It's one of those items people will buy last because they want the mount and transmog back along with all the research. For the most part its just there as a way to use up excess if you get that high.

TBF, if you're buying the mount/backpack first before a targeted socket, the socket isn't aimed at you in the first place.

[CrawlFromThePit]

Disclaimer Before I go any further, this isn't aimed at any specific guild nor is it trying to trash credit for kills - this is meant in an unbiased way across the board of every guild currently raiding in WoW Disclaimer

The above said! Anyone else feels this tier was just Pay2Win, Buggy, Underwhelming, Untested, Rushed out of the gates mess?

I just can't help but feel seeing multiple guilds using ilvl 400-415 items that straight up outperform 460+ pieces was just a terrible design decision. I can understand them wanting to test Corruption, they're likely looking for a new system for Shadowlands and using Corruption as a basis for that since Titanforged is gone now seems like the most logical choice, the timing and delivery, however, was terrible.


/Discuss (in a civil manner hopefully)


Also! the N'zoth fight design was worse than Madness of Deathwing

Lower ilvl corrupted item are not a problem. Thinking ilvl is the end all be all of power representation is the root of the issue here. There's tnos of RPGs out there not using any kind of ilvl progression, you simply use what's strong, it doesn't matter wher it comes from, if it replace another item with "higher stats", or whatever reason. Thinking ilvl is everything is inherently wrong and when Blizzard made the very close minded statement that they want ilvl to be the most importantthing they shot themselves in the foot, as you can clearly see they went against what they said shamelessly, it's because they know what they said was stupid.

[Lucetia]

TBF, if you're buying the mount/backpack first before a targeted socket, the socket isn't aimed at you in the first place.

Depends on your line of thinking. 5k for transmog, 100k for mount and 25k for socket. You could either A) buy 4 sockets that won't last long due to being replaced or B) buy the mount and only grind the 100k once.

Personally I'd rather go for the transmog/mount as they are longer lasting than a socket that will get replaced in next expansion quite quickly.

The only thing is I have no clue how many you get at 5 chests or a +5 mask run. It could make it a mute point and you can get all three rather quickly. Though I have thought about using my alts to buy the extra items and just use the socket on my main.

[Trend]

That seems quite passive-aggressive. I'm aware what P2W is, this tier was literally that, you could buy gear better than higher-tiered raid gear, there is no more of a clear example of P2W.

*sigh*

FFS, really this is the best you can do? So if I spend gold cap on corrupted items I win? Yes, that's a rhetorical question because, obviously, paying and winning are two completely different things here.

Also, it sounds like you're just regurgitating the Method stream which was endless BS about how bad the fight was as soon as they lost. Nothing against Method, but that shit was pretty pathetic and just obvious sour grapes they got outplayed ... not by the Method players themselves but by their casters. N'Zoth was beaten first by the team that deserved to beat it first. Method could have spent 4x the 100M gold they spent and would have still lost. Limit had better execution throughout the race.

[Turaska]

*sigh*

FFS, really this is the best you can do? So if I spend gold cap on corrupted items I win? Yes, that's a rhetorical question because, obviously, paying and winning are two completely different things here.

Also, it sounds like you're just regurgitating the Method stream which was endless BS about how bad the fight was as soon as they lost. Nothing against Method, but that shit was pretty pathetic and just obvious sour grapes they got outplayed ... not by the Method players themselves but by their casters. N'Zoth was beaten first by the team that deserved to beat it first. Method could have spent 4x the 100M gold they spent and would have still lost. Limit had better execution throughout the race.

I didn't mention the method stream, I simply asked a question, it's you that seems to be projecting.

[Daymanmb]

*sigh*

FFS, really this is the best you can do? So if I spend gold cap on corrupted items I win? Yes, that's a rhetorical question because, obviously, paying and winning are two completely different things here.

P2W means using real money for in-game power. If corrupted items were available on the cash shop for real money and Method used this way to gear its raid, but didnt win the race to a world first boss kill, the system is not any less P2W, if Limit didnt buy into the same practice and won the race instead. Your example is laughable.

[Gomelus]

Depends on your line of thinking. 5k for transmog, 100k for mount and 25k for socket. You could either A) buy 4 sockets that won't last long due to being replaced or B) buy the mount and only grind the 100k once.

Personally I'd rather go for the transmog/mount as they are longer lasting than a socket that will get replaced in next expansion quite quickly.

The only thing is I have no clue how many you get at 5 chests or a +5 mask run. It could make it a mute point and you can get all three rather quickly. Though I have thought about using my alts to buy the extra items and just use the socket on my main.

If you're spending 25k mementos on a socket, I'm pretty sure you're going to use it something that you WON'T be replacing, like trinkets. They can't corrupt, so once you got the mythic ilvl, you put a socket and you're done. Probably the same with the weapons with fixed corruptions from the raid.

Do we know how much extra mementos a mask gives? Like actual numbers, and not just "more"? That could give us an approximate on a 5 mask run.

Personally I don't care about the xmog/mount, I rather buy something that it's actually an upgrade rather than something cosmetic, which comes back to my original point, if you rather have a new mount first rather than a socket, you're not really the target of the socket.

[Gaidax]

I mean... how is it Pay2Win when the items were bought with ingame gold they farmed by carrying scrubs for half a year?

[Trend]

P2W means using real money for in-game power

Umm, no. LOL, the term says what it means. Pay to Win. I mean, can you read at all? LOL

Also, they didn't use real money. They sell carries to make the gold to pay for raiding.

In summary: LOL

[Daymanmb]

Umm, no. LOL, the term says what it means. Pay to Win. I mean, can you read at all? LOL

Youre dumb: "In general a game is considered pay-to-win when a player can gain any gameplay advantage over his non-paying peers, which is shown in games such as FIFA. Such games are called "pay-to-win" by critics."

"Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying."

Its about the ability to buy power. Actually winning is irrelevant to the equation and wholly dependent on the wielder.

[lollerlaban]

Oh I didnt know that.

Even during MoP the BMAH had heroic quality items on it

[Kaver]

Umm, no. LOL, the term says what it means. Pay to Win. I mean, can you read at all? LOL

You're sadly wrong my friend. Maybe they should call it "Pay to improve your chances to win" but that's too long, so they just simplified it to "Pay to win". However, it does just mean that you pay money to gain an advantage over your peers. You don't have to actually get the win.

[Orwell7]

W-H-O-A

People are arguing that P2W is not really pay-to-win, BECAUSE all others are doing it?
Hell, have any of you played a mobile P2W game? There are usually a handful of people SINKING all their money into the game to be 1st on some ladder.

Method, Limit, Pieces... all funneld their money to be 1st on some ladder.

It's not an excuse that the "top" is doing it. 100 million gold is 100 million.
It's not an excuse that "only a few slots" were available.
It's not an excuse that they get it back via boosts.

You know what would have been FAIR?
If all the "top guilds" spent 0 gold on BoEs. THAT would have been fair. Even ground. Even chances besides loot RNG.

Imagine it with a "slider":
|----------------|
0------X------ 100

0 means NOT pay to win, you cannot spend gold on gear.

100 means every slot can be purchased via gold/$ -pay to win.

Any number between 1 and 99 IS STILL PAY TO WIN!

It's simple as that. Is your SO cheating on you? Only hardcore anal fisting means cheating? "just a kiss" is not? Just a kiss is cheating, too.
Any number of gear bought is pay-to-win, period.

Maaaybe if BoEs were capped at a certain ilvl, with only lvl1 corruptions... but it's still disgusting that we need do talk about this.