What Happened When a State Made Food Stamps Harder to Get

[Captain N]

"I had it hard, I put in the work, I paid the money, so nobody else should have it any easier!" is genuinely one of the dumbest arguments against improving society. And yet the hivemind of the right uses it against every liberal policy that they have NO argument against because they know it would improve society.

Ironically they'll also get mad at someone who doesn't have student debt either due to wealthy parents or scholarships. It's more or less an attack on education itself than an attack on the incurred debt most people will subject themselves too.

[Pannonian]

I just wanted to underscore that last line, and what it means; any company not willing to pay for training to fill a gap doesn't really have jobs that it needs done that are going unfulfilled. It has jobs it would like to get done for dirt cheap, but the fact that no one is taking the offer means the offer is too little.

Trying to rework the entire economy so that companies don't have to pay competitive wages is why we're even in this mess in the first place.

Sorry to interject here, but you cannot train experience.

Example: We needed to hire 3 people for QA. 2 juniors, 1 senior. For the juniors we took 2 people that have never worked in IT (a cook and a construction worker) and trained them for the 6 months necessary. Still searching for the senior. Or do you imply we should just train one of them for 5 years?

[PosPosPos]

Sorry to interject here, but you cannot train experience.

Example: We needed to hire 3 people for QA. 2 juniors, 1 senior. For the juniors we took 2 people that have never worked in IT (a cook and a construction worker) and trained them for the 6 months necessary. Still searching for the senior. Or do you imply we should just train one of them for 5 years?

You are unironically claiming that there are actual roles in QA of all things that requires 5 years of experience that you couldn't realistically train someone to just do that in less than one?

Not to mention, it insinuates that being qualified for a job is like some arbitrary switch that one triggers after hitting a set period of time at a previous one, and not a millisecond before.

[Pannonian]

You are unironically claiming that there are actual roles in QA of all things that requires 5 years of experience that you couldn't realistically train someone to just do that in less than one?

If we are looking for an automation test engineer that has experience with large automation projects? Yes, then we need the experience. And we cannot train it, because if we could we wouldn't be in need for someone experienced in the first place.

5 years may be an arbitrary number, but that's typically the timeframe after we call someone a senior.

Not denying that companies shouldn't train, as i mentioned, we do it ourselves, in our IT company about half the people have no IT background and were trained on the job, but there are simply roles that cannot be trained that easily and you are dependent on experience from the outside.

[Tenlo]

If we are looking for an automation test engineer that has experience with large automation projects? Yes, then we need the experience. And we cannot train it, because if we could we wouldn't be in need for someone experienced in the first place.

5 years may be an arbitrary number, but that's typically the timeframe after we call someone a senior.

Not denying that companies shouldn't train, as i mentioned, we do it ourselves, in our IT company about half the people have no IT background and were trained on the job, but there are simply roles that cannot be trained that easily and you are dependent on experience from the outside.

How do people get that XP on the outside? I'm not really disagreeing with you but it seems weird that person X needs so much experience on the outside before they will be considered

Does schooling count towards the 5 year experience requirement?

[Pannonian]

How do people get that XP on the outside? I'm not really disagreeing with you but it seems weird that person X needs so much experience on the outside before they will be considered

Does schooling count towards the 5 year experience requirement?

It can. The thing one needs to understand, that these 5 years are just a ballpark estimate, not a real requirement. We have (as mentioned) taken a lot of people on board even when there is no background, but due to people leaving, we cannot run QA with 5 juniors.

Does schooling count? Well, if the person has a specific education in automation engineering, prior working experience becomes less important, but still we need someone who doesn't need explaining of the basics.

No, we are not picky. Here in Vienna, we have a serious problem with lacking manpower in IT. Heck, i get about 3-4 job offers a week. I'm well aware that we need to train people ourselves, and we do this, extensivley, but there comes a point when you need expertise from the outside.

The requirements are not set in stone. If our QA director thinks it's a good fit, she'll hire the person, but we cannot just train someone for this specific job.

Well, we now have 3 recruiters looking for us, and for the C# Architect...

[Spectral]

I'm sorry, but that's the situation you see everywhere.

Not being in debt is better than most Americans situation.


I imagine something will be done for those that just recently finished paying their debt, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it. Did you know Australia has free college but they take some of the money you earn to pay for it? As long as you earn at least a certain amount of money, so they won't take money from you if you're poor. It also incentivizes the government to proactively raise the minimum wage, which is currently $19.49. The cost of a Big Mac is only $4.30, which is cheaper than America. Rent Prices in United States are 19.29% higher than in Australia. Food is cheaper in Australia than America, and we subsidize our farmers with Trump money.

https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-livin...=United+States

The emphasis on the $19.49 minimum wage is either silly or misleading - AUD and USD aren't equivalent even though they use the same unit. The current engage rate is .67, implying a minimum wage equivalent of ~$13 USD. Of course, that is higher than what the US currently has, but we should be clear about the numbers.

It's also kind of weird that you singled out a Big Mac while linking a page that showed restaurant costs are lower in the United States.

Also worth a mention is that median real disposable income in the United States is ~$3K higher than in Australia.

Australia seems great, it's almost certainly a better place to be poor than the United States. There's a lot to recommend it culturally and from a policy perspective and I have no interest in arguing that Australia should be more like the United States. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't cherrypick a few numbers when the aggregate picture doesn't actually look so clear.

[Vash The Stampede]

The emphasis on the $19.49 minimum wage is either silly or misleading - AUD and USD aren't equivalent even though they use the same unit. The current engage rate is .67, implying a minimum wage equivalent of ~$13 USD. Of course, that is higher than what the US currently has, but we should be clear about the numbers.

It's also kind of weird that you singled out a Big Mac while linking a page that showed restaurant costs are lower in the United States.

Also worth a mention is that median real disposable income in the United States is ~$3K higher than in Australia.

Australia seems great, it's almost certainly a better place to be poor than the United States. There's a lot to recommend it culturally and from a policy perspective and I have no interest in arguing that Australia should be more like the United States. All I'm saying is that you shouldn't cherrypick a few numbers when the aggregate picture doesn't actually look so clear.

Ok so lets not cherry pick. All ranked higher than the United States which is still $7.25 nation wide. France in particular is known for their social programs which includes food assistance, and they have a "free" health care system. We are a rich country that doesn't like to spend money on helping the poor.

1. Luxembourg ($13.78)
2. Australia ($12.14)
3. France ($11.66)
4. New Zealand ($11.20)
5. Germany ($10.87)
6. Netherlands ($10.44)
7. Belgium ($10.38)
8. United Kingdom ($10.34)
10. Ireland ($9.62)
11. Canada ($9.52)

[Milchshake]

!!UPDATE!!


DC District Court Ruled Trump's Work Requirements as Unconstitutional.
3-0 Unanimous Ruling.


Good news for now. But it's matter of always trying to dodge bullets. Luck will run out if Trump and Leo gets to appoint even more whacko judges.

[Orlong]

!!UPDATE!!


DC District Court Ruled Trump's Work Requirements as Unconstitutional.
3-0 Unanimous Ruling.


Good news for now. But it's matter of always trying to dodge bullets. Luck will run out if Trump and Leo gets to appoint even more whacko judges.

It will be reversed once it gets appealed out of the wacko far left DC courts that were stacked by Obama. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say ANYONE is entitled to free food from the government. And if they want to use the equality clause, then everyone should get food stamps, not just poor people because that is discriminating against those making more than $20,000 a year

[Edge-]

It will be reversed once it gets appealed out of the wacko far left DC courts that were stacked by Obama. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say ANYONE is entitled to free food from the government. And if they want to use the equality clause, then everyone should get food stamps, not just poor people because that is discriminating against those making more than $20,000 a year

...stacked?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...n_of_the_court

Obama - 4 judges
Bush sr. - 2 judges
Bush jr. - 1 judge
Clinton - 3 judges
Carter - 1 judge
Reagan - 5 judges
Trump - 2 judges

If anyone "stacked" the courts by those numbers, it's Reagan. And if you do the party split, that's 8 Democratic appointees and 10 Republican appointees.

Once again, predictably, you're wrong.

[Breccia]

It will be reversed once it gets appealed out of the wacko far left DC courts that were stacked by Obama.

Well someone didn't do their research. Did you know the judge who wrote the opinion was a Reagan appointee?

Oh, and, that was an appeal.

Oh, and, the state filing the lawsuit was Arkansas.

Please post constructively. Making up random shit is not constructive.

[Orlong]

Well someone didn't do their research. Did you know the judge who wrote the opinion was a Reagan appointee?

Oh, and, that was an appeal.

Oh, and, the state filing the lawsuit was Arkansas.

Please post constructively. Making up random shit is not constructive.

First, he gave no link to the decision to read, and secondly it'll get appealed to the next higher court. Constitution doesnt require government to hand out food

[Endus]

First, he gave no link to the decision to read, and secondly it'll get appealed to the next higher court. Constitution doesnt require government to hand out food

You need actual legal grounds for an appeal. "I don't like the decision" is not grounds.

[Ivanstone]

It will be reversed once it gets appealed out of the wacko far left DC courts that were stacked by Obama. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say ANYONE is entitled to free food from the government. And if they want to use the equality clause, then everyone should get food stamps, not just poor people because that is discriminating against those making more than $20,000 a year

That sounds excellent. The poor can eat and the rich will get a small stipend to buy caviar or, in Trump's case, more KFC.

Furthermore, if more people are buying food this will make farmer's lives a bit better and they'll stop killing themselves.

[Edge-]

First, he gave no link to the decision to read, and secondly it'll get appealed to the next higher court. Constitution doesnt require government to hand out food

A three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit found Arkansas' work requirements for Medicaid recipients to be “arbitrary and capricious.”

...

“In short, we agree with the district court that the alternative objectives of better health outcomes and beneficiary independence are not consistent with Medicaid,” the opinion said. “The text of the statute includes one primary purpose, which is providing health care coverage without any restriction geared to healthy outcomes, financial independence or transition to commercial coverage.”

I'll try to find the full ruling, but the explanation is sound.

[draynay]

You need actual legal grounds for an appeal. "I don't like the decision" is not grounds.

I'm guessing "no fair!" and "but Obama!" are not grounds either.

[Gaidax]

As some side input, I think various occurrences of hard and sharp limitations on social security are a pitfall that needs to be fixed in general.

As in - if you earn a tiny bit more than what is allowed suddenly slashes all the benefits is retarded, IMO, as it makes people intentionally fuck themselves over by working shit jobs with no hope just do get these measly benefits.

This should always some sort of step system, not binary yes/no.

[NineSpine]

As some side input, I think various occurrences of hard and sharp limitations on social security are a pitfall that needs to be fixed in general.

As in - if you earn a tiny bit more than what is allowed suddenly slashes all the benefits is retarded, IMO, as it makes people intentionally fuck themselves over by working shit jobs with no hope just do get these measly benefits.

This should always some sort of step system, not binary yes/no.

That's not how social security works.

[Breccia]

That's not how social security works.

I believe he's suggesting that's how it should work.