In your "dream version of WoW", what kind of content would you play every day?

[Penegal]

I'd have a lot less RNG, or at least ways to counter it after a while, like bad luck protection. Not hard-coded into the game, but simply for instance :

Now : Kill raid boss that can drop a mount 1% of the time.
If it drops : yay
If it doesn't : time completely wasted

My dream version : Kill raid boss that can drop a mount 1% of the time, but drops also a currency 100% of the time, and you need 100 to get the mount.
If it drops : yay
If it doesn't : one step closer to getting it

Similar systems for Paragon Boxes, etc.. just add vendors that accept this currency and can provide any item you want after you have amassed enough currency (and thus proved you've done the content X times)

It would for sure rustle the jimmies of the special snowflakes but I think the game has turned too much into an endless casino for its own good.

And by the way, I say that as someone that already has all those rare raid mounts (up to Legion at least, haven't tried grinding those yet).

This is probably the only actually meaningful thing I read in this whole thread. Leave shit as it is and make ways to counteract the bad luck people may have. It would be great if it spreads to the whole game. I would even go as far as say it would fix most of the problems in the game if you can add it to sockets, any uncontrollable item enhancements such as TF or corruption, vanity items.

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I'd want almost everything to be tradable and solo/crafting be a viable alternative to raiding/dungeons.

So I guess I would do crafting, gathering mats, trading every day but it should have a lot of depth in it. Sort of like there was in Classic or even more, with a large selection of useful items you can make, super rare recipes etc. daily CDs, some mats maybe locked behind rare follower missions to prevent a single player just spamming the market and devaluing everything good.

Crafting should never be a viable alternative to raiding and dungeons. If you incorporate it to be able to create viable items in every slot through clearing the raid enough times on the corresponding difficulty, sure. An MMORPG is not a solo game and should therefore not reward solo play equally to group play.

Also, trading everything would most likely break the economy.

[Amarys]

Crafting should never be a viable alternative to raiding and dungeons. If you incorporate it to be able to create viable items in every slot through clearing the raid enough times on the corresponding difficulty, sure. An MMORPG is not a solo game and should therefore not reward solo play equally to group play.

Also, trading everything would most likely break the economy.

So in solo games you trade with.. who exactly? And how is it against MMO rules for things to be soloable.

The point of MMOs is that you you share the world with other players and more options is always good. Why do you think the only viable option is grind PvE dungeons and raids with others?

Everything that requires there to be other players is part of what MMO is supposed to be, be it building a trade empire, ganking lowbies in Darkshire or hell, even dancing on mailboxes for gold. All these activities need there to be other players, even if you're not co-operating with them to take down monsters. In fact, WoW has scapped everything like that while all these activities were supported in most older MMOs. I would even say WoW is no longer a RPG, it's more of a multiplayer action dungeon grinder now.

As for "breaking" the economy.. no, it works just fine in most economy based MMOs, just don't make good stuff too easy to get. Supply vs demand, my friend, supply vs demand.


PS. If anything, dungeons and raids are not in the spirit of MMOs as they're not part of the world and stop other players from hindering or helping you in them.

[Penegal]

So in solo games you trade with.. who exactly? And how is it against MMO rules for things to be soloable.

The point of MMOs is that you you share the world with other players and more options is always good. Why do you think the only viable option is grind PvE dungeons and raids with others?

Everything that requires there to be other players is part of what MMO is supposed to be, be it building a trade empire, ganking lowbies in Darkshire or hell, even dancing on mailboxes for gold. All these activities need there to be other players, even if you're not co-operating with them to take down monsters. In fact, WoW has scapped everything like that while all these activities were supported in most older MMOs. I would even say WoW is no longer a RPG, it's more of a multiplayer action dungeon grinder now.

As for "breaking" the economy.. no, it works just fine in most economy based MMOs, just don't make good stuff too easy to get. Supply vs demand, my friend, supply vs demand.


PS. If anything, dungeons and raids are not in the spirit of MMOs as they're not part of the world and stop other players from hindering or helping you in them.

Trading would break it to a certain extent in wow, if you suddenly make the change. If it had started out that way it wouldn't be broken by this point from trading.

Also, MMOs have always been about co-operation. Even if crafting were to be a viable alternative without raids, it should never be viable to be done solo. Meaning not being able to get all of the materials or all of the recipes without external help. Not having a need to socialize in the progression of the game would make the online aspect nearly irrelevant because all that you would have left is simple trade. It would most likely still be overshadowed by guilds working together and you would have people complaining how they are being outpaced by a group of individuals striving for the same goal.

It's irrational to make the work of 1 player reward them equally to the work of X number of players working together towards a common goal.

[Blandalf]

Basically I want TBC without flying, and soloable dungeons and raids with speed clearing modes for cosmetics. Ideally a tier behind the current one, if you complete the dungeon in x minutes you get a recolour of that tier set for your class.

[Amarys]

Trading would break it to a certain extent in wow, if you suddenly make the change. If it had started out that way it wouldn't be broken by this point from trading.

Also, MMOs have always been about co-operation. Even if crafting were to be a viable alternative without raids, it should never be viable to be done solo. Meaning not being able to get all of the materials or all of the recipes without external help. Not having a need to socialize in the progression of the game would make the online aspect nearly irrelevant because all that you would have left is simple trade. It would most likely still be overshadowed by guilds working together and you would have people complaining how they are being outpaced by a group of individuals striving for the same goal.

It's irrational to make the work of 1 player reward them equally to the work of X number of players working together towards a common goal.

No they haven't. The original MMOs were basically fantasy life simulators. You could literally plays a woodcutter and click on trees 16h a day for a meager profit while watching Youtube.

Even WoW started out as a fantasy Adventure simulator with dungeons being only a small part of it and raids didn't even exist.

And crafting should absolutely be viable solo.. I think you misunderstood what I was saying though. It should be like you go out, mine common ores and then simply make the best items out of it. No it should be more like it is in Classic now. For example to make a BiS helmet, you first need a super rare recipe that you most likely won't be able to farm solo. Then you need some common mats and then tradeable items that drop from raids that you can either get on your own or buy from others. And then some items from other professions, say daily CDs.

Now yes, it would be possible to make these items solo but it would be very hard and you couldn't make many of them. It works perfectly in Classic now but it could have been expanded on and improved, instead of.. well whatever crafting is now.

[Penegal]

No they haven't. The original MMOs were basically fantasy life simulators. You could literally plays a woodcutter and click on trees 16h a day for a meager profit while watching Youtube.

Even WoW started out as a fantasy Adventure simulator with dungeons being only a small part of it and raids didn't even exist.

And crafting should absolutely be viable solo.. I think you misunderstood what I was saying though. It should be like you go out, mine common ores and then simply make the best items out of it. No it should be more like it is in Classic now. For example to make a BiS helmet, you first need a super rare recipe that you most likely won't be able to farm solo. Then you need some common mats and then tradeable items that drop from raids that you can either get on your own or buy from others. And then some items from other professions, say daily CDs.

Now yes, it would be possible to make these items solo but it would be very hard and you couldn't make many of them. It works perfectly in Classic now but it could have been expanded on and improved, instead of.. well whatever crafting is now.

Yeah, makes sense. Pretty much what I had in mind with crafting.

However, for me the game wouldn't be as exciting if solo players could compete with players that play in a group power-wise. Maybe it's just me. I never thought solo can compete with group

[Mightytasty]

I’d want to make raids feel more rewarding. My guild is 3 weeks into 5/12 heroic Ny’alotha and there are no upgrades for me for 75% of the bosses.

-Heavily nerf or outright remove gear acquisition from mythic +

-Make raid loot much more scarce

-Implement valor points as bad luck protection

-Have 1 raid specific legendary per tier for dedicated players to target

[Snowcharm]

Wotlk style heroics and druid healing and tanking. Also Unholy tank !

Also Justice/Valor Points instead of AP/Titanforge

Tabard rep bonus

[LanToaster]

From what I gather from all the Whining going on, the dream Content would be:
A non Randomized Dungeon, that is different each time you visit, which Poses the same difficulty no matter what gear, spec or class you play.
The Dungeon in itself is never to be beaten, and always Awards the BiS gear.

[Penegal]

I’d want to make raids feel more rewarding. My guild is 3 weeks into 5/12 heroic Ny’alotha and there are no upgrades for me for 75% of the bosses.

-Heavily nerf or outright remove gear acquisition from mythic +

-Make raid loot much more scarce

-Implement valor points as bad luck protection

-Have 1 raid specific legendary per tier for dedicated players to target

You also have mythic difficulty available. If they implement what you want, people who want to actually push into mythic after heroic is cleared will be hurt. No offence but being 5/12 on heroic 3 weeks in is very bad, regardless of reasons. This, of course, is taking into consideration how AotC gets pugged on day 1. Sure, you can take your time with a guild that has no goal beyond heroic but it really is not at a difficulty level where it's warranted to not be cleared up to this point in the patch. The actual upgrades level-wise come from the mythic difficulty. It's like saying that because you can't add more ram to your PC instead of upgrading, make it so it's harder to add ram at all

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From what I gather from all the Whining going on, the dream Content would be:
A non Randomized Dungeon, that is different each time you visit, which Poses the same difficulty no matter what gear, spec or class you play.
The Dungeon in itself is never to be beaten, and always Awards the BiS gear.

And you only need to log in once a week 5 minutes before doing that dungeon and buy your consumables off the AH for the price 2 expansions ago.

[Dezminion]

I dont want to play every day, nor do I want to feel like I should play every day.
Weekly cap to stuff you can gather/get/do is good, I really liked the way VP was done in Cata, you got the reward even if you ran the 7 required dungeons to cap VP in a row during lazy Saturday afternoon.

[cuafpr]

1) Housing - via garrison type system with more customization but the core is there.
2) better progressions
3) a system that while i'm chasing that carrot on a stick i will get it one day... AKA bad luck protection on farming mounts/pets and a badge system for each expac where you can just buy the gear/mounts/pets from that expac after enough farming. Years of ICC runs killed it for me.
4) SWTOR style leveling and story modes that come out on release
5) zero lore locked behind none soloable content (see story mode)
6) world events that are worth doing

[Mightytasty]

You also have mythic difficulty available. If they implement what you want, people who want to actually push into mythic after heroic is cleared will be hurt. No offence but being 5/12 on heroic 3 weeks in is very bad, regardless of reasons. This, of course, is taking into consideration how AotC gets pugged on day 1. Sure, you can take your time with a guild that has no goal beyond heroic but it really is not at a difficulty level where it's warranted to not be cleared up to this point in the patch. The actual upgrades level-wise come from the mythic difficulty. It's like saying that because you can't add more ram to your PC instead of upgrading, make it so it's harder to add ram at all

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And you only need to log in once a week 5 minutes before doing that dungeon and buy your consumables off the AH for the price 2 expansions ago.

Ignoring the eliticism dripping from your post, my point was simply that it’s weird that my guild is already iLvl 460 from casually pugging mythic + and we’re not even halfway through the raid yet. Gearing through dungeons is way easier than gearing through raids and that’s a fact. I know some people prefer it but I don’t.

By the way, we’re a brand new guild and are still sorting through our good and bad players. Could care less that 1% of the player base getting AOTC on day 1.

[Penegal]

Ignoring the eliticism dripping from your post, my point was simply that it’s weird that my guild is already iLvl 460 from casually pugging mythic + and we’re not even halfway through the raid yet. Gearing through dungeons is way easier than gearing through raids and that’s a fact. I know some people prefer it but I don’t.

By the way, we’re a brand new guild and are still sorting through our good and bad players. Could care less that 1% of the player base getting AOTC on day 1.

Okay, let's ignore anything about boss progression. If you have no more gear upgrades from the heroic version of the raid, the natural next step is to head into mythic as a guild. Get 20 people together and see how far you can go. The first 3 bosses shouldn't be giving people too much trouble since they're not designed to be a big wall. It seems rather unfair to want reward reduction to happen in other pieces of content where you attain lower item level than available in raids simply because you have not yet decided to go in to the next tier of difficulty to acquire said upgrades.

[NineSpine]

I want the game to return to the model that they used in Classic, TBC, and to a lesser extent WoTLK. That means the following:

1. No more temporary progression systems. Leveling, gear, and reputation are enough. There is no need for anything further.

2. No more temporary customization systems. Talents and gear are enough. If you can't make the talents and gear interesting enough to create gameplay changes that feel meaningful, and you need to appeal to weird, temporary customization systems, something is wrong with your design.

3. No flying, far less teleportation. The world is much larger these days and somehow feels much, much smaller.

4. One raid difficulty. Let the raid tiers contain easier fights and harder fights. Create a super-boss every once in a while for people that want that.

5. Dungeons that feel like minizones instead of like linear mob-steamrolls. Make the dungeons large, expandable, and full of content, like BRD.

6. Idiosyncratic and interesting gear. We need fewer stat sticks and more unique effects.

7. A talent system that lets you spec into your trees rather than choosing a spec. I don't care whether it uses the old model or some different model, as long as it has three trees in some form and I put points into them to move up.

8. No more centralized storyline. I want the stories to be smaller, more modular. Each patch doesn't need to roll into the next as the chapter of a story.

9. Calm down. The stakes are always too high. Things are way out of control. The game is in red alert mode 100% of the time, and it makes big events feel meaningless.

10. Professions mattering.

Basically, I just want a modernized version of classic. I see the flaws in classic, but I do not think the path blizzard has chosen was the right solution to those problems. They've slowly worked themselves into a corner where the game doesn't feel like an MMO anymore.

[CrawlFromThePit]

I just hate the idea of end-game now. I wish all dungeons and raids were part of near never ending leveling. Kinda like how lvl 99 in D2 originally was not even something people aimed at because it was so far away, people would make their character build for lvl 85 or 90 and you just do all the game's content that way. Having one type of content for lvling and then completely switching to something at max level is idiotic and useless, and ON TOP OF THAT the whole game is now about having ANOTHER PROGRESSION SYSTEM to continue fake lvling once you're at max level, what the fuck? AP grind is lvling, unlocking essences is lvling, upgrading the cloak is lvling, it's all the same but in a more boring way and made so it gives a little bit every now and then instead of having a real solid long term lvling system.

WoW is first and foremost a lvling game, that's the first thing everyone does, before dungeons, before pvp, before raids, before reps, before dailies or WQs, before arena. Lvling is the first thing we do in the game and the reason we stay. This became very obvious to be when I played classic, I loved lvling my character, but once I hit max lvl everything became boring as shit. I wish WoW was a real lvling game.

[crakerjack]

I'd love nothing more than 10/25 raids and a mix of normal 5 man dungeons and mega-dungeons. I'm okay with a few weeklies, but I don't want to see dailies ever again. I don't care for solo content and there should be no focus on that type of content in an MMORPG. If you want solo content, go play one of the many single player campaigns out there that are designated for solo gameplay.

[Kyphael]

Every day?

Definitely Wintegrasp and Tol Barad style zone; great, fun mix of PVE and PVP, combining both and promoting realm-wide participation. "10 minutes til WG guys, let's go win VoA." Should have been in every expansion after its introduction and continuance in Wrath/Cataclysm.

Daily heroics with Valor weekly cap.

Timeless Isle-like zones, but not full of dailies and rep to grind like Mechagon, yuck. I mean real sandbox.

Rep tabards so we can grind reputation in dungeons so we can grind as we see fit. Introduce a 1,000 rep cap per day, I don't care, just give me the option to do dungeons instead of WQ's.

WoD and Legion mission table to grind rep was also a fun, easy way to get rep.

Legion Artifact weapons.

[ArkantosChampion]

Bounty Hunted, bfa pvp system
Timeless isle, zone
Mage Tower, challenge thing
Rogue / Fire Mage, class/spec gameplay for pvp
Semi-high 5-10%+ chance of mount drop, farm from bosses in 5ppls or raid dungeons
Supply Drops, system with higher rewards
Reputation tabards, optional rep farm system
Witcher3 Quest quality.

[Dunachar]

I have an issue with Blizzard's policy of making all old content 100% obsolete with every new expansion and even with every new content patch. If they would update the loot tables and make certain old raids and dungeons scale up to top level as well, there would be more variety, instead of running a single raid over and over again until the next patch nullifies everything again. WoW has massive amounts of great content, but with each patch we see an increasingly smaller percentage of it.

Also I'm sick of the never-ending rep grind bullshit. The least they could do would be to make it account or at least server wide. Less time spent grinding, more time spent doing something actually enjoyable.