So why the anger over the final cinematic?

[Runstarr]

For Blizzard to maybe put some effort into this shitshow of a final patch?

Nah just release patch, throw out a 6 month mount yet again nobody asked for to keep people the hook and add a shittier RNG system than Titanforging to the game.

So what does the team that design mounts have to do with the actual patch? They're totally separate stuff.

[KrayZ33]

I stopped playing during the last raid.

Killing N'zoth has to have severe consequences for Azeroth.

Did they explain how Azeroth is going to survive the big ass sword that has been rammed into her very core.
Or how the death of N'zoth doesn't leave her crippled like the death of the other old one did?
N'zoth IS dead, isn't he?

C'thun and Yogg are not (from what we've been told), but from the looks of it, it really does look like we pulverized N'zoth into nothingness.
And from the Titans we know that we can't kill the Old Gods, because their corruption runs so deep, that killing them would mean killing Azeroth.

[Koniwej]

I stopped playing during the last raid.

Killing N'zoth has to have severe consequences for Azeroth.

Did they explain how Azeroth is going to survive the big ass sword that has been rammed into her very core.
Or how the death of N'zoth doesn't leave her crippled like the death of the other old one did?
N'zoth IS dead, isn't he?

C'thun and Yogg are not (from what we've been told), but from the looks of it, it really does look like we pulverized N'zoth into nothingness.
And from the Titans we know that we can't kill the Old Gods, because their corruption runs so deep, that killing them would mean killing Azeroth.

Have you read anything?
Because it literally states that the reason why the titans didnt remove yogg/c'thun/n'zoth was that ripping them out would cause a gaping hole.

That's why they were imprisoned.

Champion plot bullshit allowed us to kill the old gods without ripping them out, there will be no consequences.

The sword won't be an issue because, just like a wound irl, you don't remove it until it is sealed, it'll be a wound for sure but it won't be a gaping hole. You can survive an arrow in your body for months (assuming it doesnt hit anything vital ofc) but if you take it out, your chances of survival go down.

And c'thun and yogg are dead. Canonically.

[KrayZ33]

Have you read anything?
Because it literally states that the reason why the titans didnt remove yogg/c'thun/n'zoth was that ripping them out would cause a gaping hole.

That's why they were imprisoned.

Champion plot bullshit allowed us to kill the old gods without ripping them out, there will be no consequences.


The sword won't be an issue because, just like a wound irl, you don't remove it until it is sealed, it'll be a wound for sure but it won't be a gaping hole. You can survive an arrow in your body for months (assuming it doesnt hit anything vital ofc) but if you take it out, your chances of survival go down.

And c'thun and yogg are dead. Canonically.

That exactly what I do not understand and was asking about.
It's stated that it's impossible to kill the old gods because it would kill Azeroth - that's why they imprisoned them to reduce their influence.
I'm pretty sure that Blizz told us that both C'thun and Yogg are still around and not "dead".

So what did they say about N'zoth being killed, and what did they say about how they'll fix the sword inside Azeroth's core. It's not a "normal sword"-wound.

[eduwneso]

Ok, just going to say that judging from the "likes" and "dislikes" on youtube is kinda silly given that everything Blizz has put out has been getting dislike-bombed into oblivion. When that happens people aren't judging the content, they are just hitting a button to express their general anger or trolling. The metric loses all value.

+1 here, this is one of the things I find amusing

[Koniwej]

That exactly what I do not understand and was asking about.
It's stated that it's impossible to kill the old gods because it would kill Azeroth - that's why they imprisoned them to reduce their influence.
I'm pretty sure that Blizz told us that both C'thun and Yogg are still around and not "dead".

So what did they say about N'zoth being killed, and what did they say about how they'll fix the sword inside Azeroth's core. It's not a "normal sword"-wound.

It was said that the titans can't kill them, because pulling them out would cause damage (see well of eternity and y'shaarj), not that they can't be killed. That's why they imprisoned the remaining three; they had no idea what to do with them other than to contain. Also explains g'huun, which was literally a test-tube baby old god that they were experimenting with.
MOTHER developed the purification protocol (used on g'huun and n'zoth)

What I remember is that them saying something along the lines of "though they may be dead, their corrupting presence lingers" (paraphrasing)

[KrayZ33]

What I remember is that them saying something along the lines of "though they may be dead, their corrupting presence lingers" (paraphrasing)

Ah yes, I think you are right. I googled again and the answer to that question was: "They are dead, but death isn't always the last step" or something similar to that.

It was said that the titans can't kill them, because pulling them out would cause damage (see well of eternity and y'shaarj), not that they can't be killed.

But... what does that even mean - we use titan technology to kill N'zoth, we use titan minions to kill Yogg-Saron. So how come the Titans did not do the same stuff we did, after all, they enabled US to do it.

[Stooned]

Archimonde also died in tbc yet he came back in wod
Kiljaden got locked away in TBC, but took till legion to come back.

its funny the dude that died came back faster then the dude who didn't.
sargeras may come back in like 4 years,m or he may NEVER come back, as kel'thuzad has yet to. its been over 10 years and hes still no sign of coming back.

Kil'Jaeden didn't get 'locked away'. He got pushed back to where he was and was stopped from entering Azeroth. Kil'Jaeden was subsequently defeated in Legion in the ToS raid and is now dead, and cannot be resurrected through the twisting nether.

Archimonde was killed in one iteration, but because of the twisting nether, was able to to regenerate. Legion explains this as being through the auspices of the world soul of Argus, which is why we also see the likes of Azmodan, Brutallus, Tichondrius etc. etc. Archimonde is dead, and no longer can be resurrected through the twisting nether because we deprived him of that ability in mythic HFC.

Kel'Thuzad is literally dead, but also undead. We killed him, however his soul is contained in a phylactery, and as such he can be resurrected as a lich. The last time we defeated him in Naxx during WotLK, we ensured his soul entered his phylactery, however that has since gone missing. Given Shadowlands is death-themed, I wouldn't be surprised if he made a celebrity appearance.

Illidan was killed in TBC, but the story made a U-turn by implying that he was never truly dead and was re-awakened for use by AU Gul'Dan to harbour the soul of Sargeras.

Sargeras is not dead, and did not die. This is cannon. He is imprisoned in the Seat of the Pantheon, where Illidan now acts as his jailor.

These things are all cause and effect, with a level of remoteness on what allowed the effect to take place being comensurate with the concept of 'death'. I get what you say in that "no longer being active in the GAME means they are essentially dead to the story as it continues to flow", however that does not equate to death. Sargeras is not dead, he is simply a now unused asset relegated to the history of the game. You really are confusing 'death' as a concept with these characters simply being unused assets with a possibility, but not certainty, of once again being utilized in the future.

[Koniwej]

Ah yes, I think you are right. I googled again and the answer to that question was: "They are dead, but death isn't always the last step" or something similar to that.



But... what does that even mean - we use titan technology to kill N'zoth, we use titan minions to kill Yogg-Saron. So how come the Titans did not do the same stuff we did, after all, they enabled US to do it.

When the titans fought the black empire in chronicle 1, they *literally* fought them.

as in

Aman'thul plucked y'shaarj out of the ground like a weed and left a gaping hole.
They couldn't do that to the other 3. So they sent titanic watchers to fight the ground war while they thought up a plan. While they were thinking up a plan, sargeras went mad and killed the pantheon.

Rough timeline

- - - Updated - - -

Kil'Jaeden didn't get 'locked away'. He got pushed back to where he was and was stopped from entering Azeroth. Kil'Jaeden is dead, and cannot be resurrected through the twisting nether.

Archimonde was killed in one iteration, but because of the twisting nether, was able to to regenerate. Legion explains this as being through the auspices of the wolrd soul of Argus, which is why we also see the likes of Azmodan, Brutallus, Tichondrius etc. etc. Archimonde is dead, and no longer can be resurrected through the twisting nether.

Kel'Thuzad is literally dead, but also undead. We killed him, however his soul is contained in a phylactery, and as such he can be resurrected as a lich.

Illidan was killed in TBC, but the story made a U-turn by implying that he was never truly dead and was re-awakened for use by AU Gul'Dan to harbour the soul of Sargeras.

Sargeras is not dead, and did not die. This is cannon. He is imprisoned in the Seat of the Pantheon, where Illidan now acts as his jailor.

These things are all cause and effect, with a level of remoteness on what allowed the effect to take place being comensurate with the concept of 'death'. I get what you say in that "no longer being active in the GAME means they are essentially dead to the story as it continues to flow", however that does not equate to death. Sargeras is not dead, he is simply a now unused asset relegated to the history of the game. You really are confusing 'death' as a concept with these character simply being unused assets with a possibility, but not certainty, of once again being utilized in the future.

Yes but death doesn't stop a character from being used again.

So in essence, he's dead. He's also not. What's really important is, it doesn't matter as long as he's not active in the story

[Corroc]

because "dead" and "out of the story" in wow effectively have no difference.

Illidan was dead until he wasn't.
Doesn't matter if sargeras is dead or alive, but he might as well be dead because he serves no purpose in the current story

I didn't ask you or did you just use wrong account?

[Koniwej]

I didn't ask you or did you just use wrong account?

It's an open discussion, if you don't want other voices take it to a PM

[McNeil]

Does this really need to be asked? N'zoth has been building up since Cata, then when he was fully released into the world he died one patch later. They didn't even justify him with a proper cinematic. Apparently people want more of Sylvanas or something, so she is getting an expansion rather than a proper Nya'lotha with N'zoth actually carrying out his plan.

[Stooned]

Yes but death doesn't stop a character from being used again.

So in essence, he's dead. He's also not. What's really important is, it doesn't matter as long as he's not active in the story

This is what I'm saying. It is simply more accurate to say they are unused assets, than dead within the realms of death as it is defined in the story. Sargeras didn't die. He is not dead in the story. merely imprisoned.

As you say, though...all that matters is that he is now unused. A relic of the game.

[Koniwej]

Does this really need to be asked? N'zoth has been building up since Cata, then when he was fully released into the world he died one patch later. They didn't even justify him with a proper cinematic. Apparently people want more of Sylvanas or something, so she is getting an expansion rather than a proper Nya'lotha with N'zoth actually carrying out his plan.

No old god has lasted more than 1 patch, though.

C'thun, Yogg, all were minor villains in their respective patches. Y'shaarj got... sha of fear which was the end boss of the first tier and I guess a garrosh kinda sorta but garrosh was in control the entire time.
Old gods have *always* been insidious and sneaky and never really the focal point of any expansion they were featured in.

[Corroc]

It's an open discussion, if you don't want other voices take it to a PM

Its ok, you dont have to play a white knight. My question on the matter was specific to the poster.

[Koniwej]

Its ok, you dont have to play a white knight. My question on the matter was specific to the poster.

Oh you went in the patented bag o useless insults? lmao
Point still stands. Take it to a PM

[Kumorii]

You're for fucking real right? You're just going to pull the "lolmad" card when debated?

I gave you a way to stretch it out. Have N'zoth not actually dead and having one last crack at us in a cinematic aspect which ends him.

What? No, me pointing out you are mad wasn't even an argument point, just that I understand you are and there is no need to emphasise it more than what's actually interesting to talk about.

What's the difference between being mind controlled, which we were, and running away? Both of those achieve the same thing, hope is lost, it looks like we are losing. Then you say we can still kamehame ha him... so to me I don't get it unless it's that important that we run away rather than be mind controlled.

[Corroc]

Oh you went in the patented bag o useless insults? lmao
Point still stands. Take it to a PM

Its up to you if you think white knighting is insult. It was just good way to describe your behaviour. Since you are just defending same nonsense that FelPlague was saying without bringing anything new to the conversation. Its literally white knighting.
The game has multiple characters who are dead but we dont treat them as characters that might realistically make a come back, so being dead from a story stand point is significant. Just because you think otherwise doesn't change the fact that from story stand point he is not dead and should not be called that.

[Koniwej]

Its up to you if you think white knighting is insult. It was just good way to describe your behaviour. Since you are just defending same nonsense that FelPlague was saying without bringing anything new to the conversation. Its literally white knighting.
The game has multiple characters who are dead but we dont treat them as characters that might realistically make a come back, so being dead from a story stand point is significant. Just because you think otherwise doesn't change the fact that from story stand point he is not dead and should not be called that.

We didn't think of illidan as being out of the story when he died.
And the point both felplague and I are making is: it doesn't matter. For all intents and purposes, he's dead to the story. Not physically dead, not dead in the story, but dead to the story.

You're getting caught up on semantics that 100% don't matter.

[Usernameforforums]

Think of all the endraid cinematics we got. This one is worse than dragon souls, the previous worse cinematic.