BWL world first progression thread

[lollerlaban]

Only thing one should care about in classic is clear time.

Yet Apes went out of their way to get in there asap. I guess they cared enough

[potis]

Because APES lost? Sure speedruns are the only real challenge in Classic, but if you for a second believe they didn't rush to get WF, you're delusional.

No one lost.

Couldnt care less about Classic shenanigans between plebeians, but it aint hard to check.

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/1002

The only ones that lost are the dum dumb that think Classic has any sort of difficulty other than preparing in 2020.

[CostinR]

Yet Apes went out of their way to get in there asap. I guess they cared enough

Absolutely did, problem was that with such a short race any kind of RNG is going to matter quite a bit. APES had issues getting in.

[Einsz]

Was watching Apes GM and raid leader yesterday. Great show.
Raid leader autistically shouting: ROGUES ROGUES GO ROGUES ROGUES
DPS NUKE EXECUTE HARD EXECUTEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Im going to stand there i dont give a fuck if I kill you all
then at the end ofc insulting other guild calling them shit

Honorable mention to raid leader shouting for interrupts and 20+ people not being able to interrupt
If thats "the best" guild classic has to offer than I'm sorry but its equal to LFR, pugs on retail manage their raids better.

[Broken Fox]

I've not seen anyone claim this. Perhaps you can't spot sarcasm?

We knew private servers were tuned harder, and they were easy as well.

Anyway comparing Classic to actual vanilla content at the time is idiotic. We have 1.12 talents, 1.12 gear, loads of R14 running around before BWL is even out, loads of people flasking which was not common at all and using every possible buff. It was obvious how easy it was going to be, all we could hope for was Blizz buff the content, but they were fairly clear they weren't.

Lol plenty of delusional people have claimed they would be difficult

[Alphatorg]

It's not though because a lot of dungeon gear is bis up til naxx. And does EP work for you because Limit was doing multiple clears of that per night after it got on farm. We are talking about people who have been doing these bosses for in some cases 15 years.

How can you even argue this point. Classic has literal 1 button specs and bosses are tank&spank with 1 ability per fight. Even the simplest retail spec has infinitely more complexity than any classic spec and even LFR bosses are more complex than Classic bosses. This has nothing to do with 15 years or talents. You could boot up a fresh classic style raid onto retail servers and any serious mythic guild (not just Limit or Method) would one shot most bosses, simply because their design is so very basic.
And I'm saying this as someone who actually plays Classic, but I do so in the understanding that the game is a meme and the only thing it can give you is some fun with people from way back when.

[Revamp Man]

It won't be that simple, we don't know the values Blizzard uses in Classic. There have been rumors about BWL buffs.

I am here from the future good sir and I have to tell you what you already know

[CostinR]

If thats "the best" guild classic has to offer than I'm sorry but its equal to LFR, pugs on retail manage their raids better.

I'd like to see a retail pug let alone an LFR group being able to walk into BWL on a serve with so many people as Gehennas, especially horde, let alone doing that with the buffs APES had, which are also a PVP guild not really a PVE one ( hence why so many of them are gnomes as opposed to humans ).

[lollerlaban]

Absolutely did, problem was that with such a short race any kind of RNG is going to matter quite a bit. APES had issues getting in.

Doesn't matter. They were 2nd after Chromaggus yet they still finished 3rd.

[Monster Hunter]

Two hours is maybe a little optimistic, even if top tier guilds have 40+ full T1 players with some legendary weapons.

This aged well

[Revamp Man]

It's safe to say with current experience it takes just 5% of time it originally required which is 4-5 days.

And I really want to address this because if they ever do servers for the other expansions specifically the burning Crusade people will try to use the argument that grades were open for months before they were cleared and it’s a lot like vanilla in that aspect in the reasoning for both is the same

The reason why the Raid’s took so long to be cleared in the past is not because of a lack of skill overall or yam being it too complicated but characters being actually unable to kill the stuff quickly and the players themselves not having a lot of knowledge I mean now we have better resources

We have DPS doing double the numbers that were expected we have players with their best in slot gear we have Raid‘s who were funneling some gear to the main players and already had a best in slot list we have better itemization we have better talents we have an overall more skilled player base and there are no secrets left back in the day in a Therion having his special ability that would screw with you based on your class was unheard of unexpectedAnd a curveball but now players know all about it players have been clearing it for decades it’s not new anymore this is like releasing a halo remastered and being surprised that people get through the story in a matter of four hours

[Monster Hunter]

Was watching Apes GM and raid leader yesterday. Great show.
Raid leader autistically shouting: ROGUES ROGUES GO ROGUES ROGUES
DPS NUKE EXECUTE HARD EXECUTEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Im going to stand there i dont give a fuck if I kill you all
then at the end ofc insulting other guild calling them shit

Honorable mention to raid leader shouting for interrupts and 20+ people not being able to interrupt
If thats "the best" guild classic has to offer than I'm sorry but its equal to LFR, pugs on retail manage their raids better.

Complete spurgs the lot of them. I've always wondered if the real reason alot of them quit wow over the years is because they didn't have the skill and ability to remain top raiders when raids started getting actualy difficult.

What alot of top raiders in the old days had was excessive time, cholesterol and BO. Maybe with the slight patiance to listen to some autistic accented ideot scream basic raid mechanics at them. What a joke.

[Revamp Man]

I'd like to see a retail pug let alone an LFR group being able to walk into BWL on a serve with so many people as Gehennas, especially horde, let alone doing that with the buffs APES had, which are also a PVP guild not really a PVE one ( hence why so many of them are gnomes as opposed to humans ).

I don’t think that had anything to do with the rest of that post which was not referencing them getting into the instance but their performance in it and I’m sorry but even in LFr with only 25 people you’re going to get in interrupt without having to be yelled at to do it

There have been retail random groups that have cleared her Roeck a ternal palace in two hours and the first boss of that Raid is more difficult and complicated than a majority of black wing later

[Makabreska]

It will be even faster.

Its basic math, some of the top DPS recorded in 2006 was 1.2-1.5k, people are already doing 2.3k, to tank and spank situations, and not 1 overgeared gnome, or an Ignite stealing fire mage, all of them are doing it.

You can check the average log, in only MC/Rank14/BWL gear, they are pulling numbers only 1 overgeared Naxxramas person did in 2006 cause knowledge.

Even less good guilds cleared most of Naxx with the raid being 80% clueless, with 300ms, they just logged on 4-5 nights a week.

The bosses will melt in no time, with the knowledge these dudes have.

The difficulty in Vanilla was not disconnecting for a full raid period.

But Naxx size is much bigger, this alone should make the clear longer.

[Tekkommo]

And I really want to address this because if they ever do servers for the other expansions specifically the burning Crusade people will try to use the argument that grades were open for months before they were cleared and it’s a lot like vanilla in that aspect in the reasoning for both is the same

If we get TBC next, it's important that we all demand pre nerf TBC. This wasn't done for Classic, majority was happy with 1.12 and there was no real demand for item progression.

Not saying pre nerf TBC is going to be super hard, I did it all at the time, I just don't want to get TBC in the nerfed state.

[OriginalName]

Because APES lost? Sure speedruns are the only real challenge in Classic, but if you for a second believe they didn't rush to get WF, you're delusional.

Yet Apes went out of their way to get in there asap. I guess they cared enough

Ye wf is pretty dope, but its not what any reputable player would or should care about primarily.

I reckon APES only care because people like you don't appreciate the actual nuances of a new tier.

[tikcol]

But imagine being that guild that is suppose to be the best there is and has dominated for years and then coming 3rd because their players couldn't be assed logging in on time.

I see your point but they aren't exactly a guild of raid loggers. I sincerely doubt they weren't all ready to enter sweatingly spamming the enter world button as it got released

[crusadernero]

Complete spurgs the lot of them. I've always wondered if the real reason alot of them quit wow over the years is because they didn't have the skill and ability to remain top raiders when raids started getting actualy difficult.

What alot of top raiders in the old days had was excessive time, cholesterol and BO. Maybe with the slight patiance to listen to some autistic accented ideot scream basic raid mechanics at them. What a joke.

haha yeah good point! Classic raids in 2020 is not hard, it just requires prep & time before you enter the raid. The raid(s) itself aint hard at all. With 40 man raids you cant really make complex fights. Imagine retail raids of today with a roster of 40 people, or just even LFR with 40 people. Its a mess enough already.

The game(retail) is harder today when looking at mechanics etc on bosses. It requires more of you.

As a player who has played since launch and grown up with the game I noticed years ago that the difficulty bar was raised(except on lfr). Even normal mode requires more of you.

In classic you just stood there most of the time pressing 1 button without anything going on. then boss would do 1-2 abilities throughout the fight. But in classic you aslo had to put in the time before & after raids to be ready.

Its kind of interesting watching how many people on this forum constantly shitting on LFR all the while alot of people praise classic raids who is about same difficulty, atleast so far. Whats REALLY the deal there? It cant be the difficulty, it must be something else.

[CostinR]

Doesn't matter. They were 2nd after Chromaggus yet they still finished 3rd.

By literally 7 seconds after recovering from a massive delay from being even able to enter the raid.

Don't take it the wrong way. I don't believe APES is the best guild, but they've shown a superb effort so far.

[Segus1992]

No one lost.

Couldnt care less about Classic shenanigans between plebeians, but it aint hard to check.

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/1002

The only ones that lost are the dum dumb that think Classic has any sort of difficulty other than preparing in 2020.

APES lost the WF race. Nothing more to it than that.

Is running 100 meters hard? No? Then why is Usain Bolt such a household name? There's always a challenge in doing X faster than anyone else.

Ye wf is pretty dope, but its not what any reputable player would or should care about primarily.

I reckon APES only care because people like you don't appreciate the actual nuances of a new tier.

If they try to get WF only because of people like me who understands they lost something they tried to win, their egos are quite fragile indeed. They cared about WF, and they lost. Sure, they won this week's speedrun, but that wasn't the competition this week.