So why the anger over the final cinematic?

[Corroc]

We didn't think of illidan as being out of the story when he died.
And the point both felplague and I are making is: it doesn't matter. For all intents and purposes, he's dead to the story. Not physically dead, not dead in the story, but dead to the story.

You're getting caught up on semantics that 100% don't matter.

Felplague said he died in the cinematic. That's where this whole conversation started. He didn't die. You just decided to defend her without knowing the start of the whole argument?


Your whole argument is about semantics and nothing to do with the actual lore. Fucking lmao.

[A Chozo]

• Six years hyping up the old god threat, since Sargeras was so terrified of them that is why he created the Legion in the first place.

Sargeras wasn't terrified of Old Gods. He was terrified of a Dark / Corrupted Titan. He could 1-hit Old Gods. They aren't that mythic. We killed 3 before N'Zoth.

[LanToaster]

He used to fear old gods instead - before they were made mere parasites. I guess that's what he meant.

The Old Gods ware "Mere Parasites" since Vanilla. Oo

On Topic:
My only real problem with the Cinematic is the "Unsatisfied Feeling" it left me.
"Hurray you Saved the world from all the OldGods, and the Giant Sword sticking in it!"
"But Magni, what about Cthun and Yogg, last time I visited Ulduar there was still Yogg Corruption doing its stuff, and there is still a Massive Sword in the Planet"

Not to mention that killing Nzoth goes against some established Lore of: "Killing Old Gods, kills the Planet". But maybe hes just Sealed in the Dagger.

[Koniwej]

Felplague said he died in the cinematic. That's where this whole conversation started. He didn't die. You just decided to defend her without knowing the start of the whole argument?


Your whole argument is about semantics and nothing to do with the actual lore. Fucking lmao.

fair point, lul

[Tabrotar]

If the Titans, at their prime (before all the Sargeras-turning-evil thing) could not kill an Old God without causing severe, nigh-irreparable damage to a planet, risking killing it, why do you think a bung of rag-tag sword-slashers and wand-wielders would be able to?

I mean, look at this line from the WoWPedia article on Old Gods, and make sure to pay very close attention to the wording of the phrase: "With Yogg-Saron and C'Thun defeated, Y'Shaarj and G'huun deceased, and N'Zoth presumably gone as well, there are no Old Gods that remain active in Azeroth.

The only ones mentioned as deceased are Y'Shaarj (which Aman'Thul personally ripped appart) and G'huun, a "fake" Old God accidentally created by the Pantheon in their experiments to study the Old Gods.

Oh god not again FFS they´re all dead as it was stated by blizz again and again and again.

Bcs people like YOU always came up with their headcanon that they had to be this big bad boys which poor puny mortals as us can never defeat.

Here´s a wakeupcall for you and your ilk: They´re dead Jim. We killed their brains.

[Koniwej]

The Old Gods ware "Mere Parasites" since Vanilla. Oo

On Topic:
My only real problem with the Cinematic is the "Unsatisfied Feeling" it left me.
"Hurray you Saved the world from all the OldGods, and the Giant Sword sticking in it!"
"But Magni, what about Cthun and Yogg, last time I visited Ulduar there was still Yogg Corruption doing its stuff, and there is still a Massive Sword in the Planet"

Not to mention that killing Nzoth goes against some established Lore of: "Killing Old Gods, kills the Planet". But maybe hes just Sealed in the Dagger.

jesus please read the chronicle.

Killing old gods isn't bad. Titans literally plucking out the old god is what's bad.

You can kill an old god. You can't do like what aman'thul did and yank y'shaarj off of the planet like a tick. pulling y'shaarj out created the well of eternity.
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...arj_so_easily/
this is a fairly reasonable explanation by someone else

[Aliven]

Don't forget that we also didn't deal with any of the carry over problems from Legion, like the big ass sword and the planet hemorrhaging Azerite. Never mind whatever being soaked in that is going to do to C'thunn.

[Koniwej]

c'thun is dead

[Aliven]

Have you read anything?
Because it literally states that the reason why the titans didnt remove yogg/c'thun/n'zoth was that ripping them out would cause a gaping hole.

That's why they were imprisoned.

Champion plot bullshit allowed us to kill the old gods without ripping them out, there will be no consequences.

The sword won't be an issue because, just like a wound irl, you don't remove it until it is sealed, it'll be a wound for sure but it won't be a gaping hole. You can survive an arrow in your body for months (assuming it doesnt hit anything vital ofc) but if you take it out, your chances of survival go down.

And c'thun and yogg are dead. Canonically.

Imagine creating high tech laser beam and then monkeys teaching you how to use it because you are giant idiot who by killing octopus can only mean "riping it out" and not using said laser.

Titans deserved to be anihilated.

- - - Updated - - -

Ah yes, I think you are right. I googled again and the answer to that question was: "They are dead, but death isn't always the last step" or something similar to that.



But... what does that even mean - we use titan technology to kill N'zoth, we use titan minions to kill Yogg-Saron. So how come the Titans did not do the same stuff we did, after all, they enabled US to do it.

Because we are CHAMPIONS OF AZEROTH!!!!11

Oh and DRAENOR IS FREEEEEEE

[Koniwej]

Imagine creating high tech laser beam and then monkeys teaching you how to use it because you are giant idiot who by killing octopus can only mean "riping it out" and not using said laser.

Titans deserved to be anihilated.

yikes

breh it's a fantasy universe, lol.
titans being on the planet and enriching the locals with technology wasn't a bad outcome of it. uldir existing as a research facility is actually super creative imho, for them to create and zap a created old god like a lab rat was a pretty good addition to the lore.

also allows them to develop the scalpel that they need to excise the wound. Cant fix everything with a sword.

[Aliven]

c'thun is dead

It was a jab about stupid, diamond, garden decoration which dont give a fuck about giant sword sticking from the azeroth but just want to snort azerite

- - - Updated - - -

yikes

breh it's a fantasy universe, lol.
titans being on the planet and enriching the locals with technology wasn't a bad outcome of it. uldir existing as a research facility is actually super creative imho, for them to create and zap a created old god like a lab rat was a pretty good addition to the lore.

also allows them to develop the scalpel that they need to excise the wound. Cant fix everything with a sword.

But the Titans thought it was impossible to kill old gods without killing the planet. Despite creating laser scalpel.

Then, thousands years later, monkeys who jizz themself about discovering steam engine have better grasp of how to operate this laser scalpel and found it has POWER setting. As in, you dont need to use the all powerfull, planet cracker but just concentrated beam to kill octopus.

But hey, AZEROTH IS FREEEEEE

[Koniwej]

It was a jab about stupid, diamond, garden decoration which dont give a fuck about giant sword sticking from the azeroth but just want to snort azerite

- - - Updated - - -



But the Titans thought it was impossible to kill old gods without killing the planet. Despite creating laser scalpel.

Then, thousands years later, monkeys who jizz themself about discovering steam engine have better grasp of how to operate this laser scalpel and found it has POWER setting. As in, you dont need to use the all powerfull, planet cracker but just concentrated beam to kill octopus.

But hey, AZEROTH IS FREEEEEE

Again, the titans did not think it wasn't impossible to kill the old gods without killing the planet.
They thought that pulling out more old gods in the manner that they pulled y'shaarj out was detrimental to the health of the planet, because the old gods were rooted deep.

as in.

Literally pulling them out (which was what aman'thul did) would hurt the planet. Took them thousands of years of jailing and experimenting on old gods for them to develop the scalpel they needed.

And it's more dangerous to pull out something sticking in you than to just leave it.

Y'Shaarj was the most powerful of the four Old Gods to plummet into Azeroth from the Great Dark Beyond, and the greatest bastion of the Black Empire was built around its gargantuan bulk.[3]

When the godlike titans arrived to shape and order Azeroth, they created the titan-forged to battle the Old Gods and their enslaved elemental servants. Though the titan-forged were successful in defeating and imprisoning the Elemental Lords, the titans realized that Y'Shaarj would prove too great a challenge for them; as the titan-forged approached the temple city that lay at the heart of the Black Empire, Y'Shaarj twisted their thoughts and drew out their darkest emotions. Thus, Aman'Thul, the Highfather himself, reached down through Azeroth's skies and heaved the Old God from the surface of the world. At that moment, the massive bulk of the Old One was ripped apart, and its death rattle caused entire mountains to shatter and hundreds of titan-forged to be instantly obliterated where they stood.[6]

Aman'Thul had inadvertently ripped open a wound in Azeroth's surface, and the world-soul's arcane lifeblood flowed to the surface. It was then that the Pantheon realized that the Old Gods had entrenched themselves too deep to excise without destroying Azeroth itself, and instead they resolved to imprison the remaining three Old Gods rather than killing them outright.[6]

[Justpassing]

The Old Gods ware "Mere Parasites" since Vanilla. Oo

I don't know the exact quote but there was something about Sargeras being so scared shitless of the old gods that he'd wish for death rather than be at their hand, or something like that. I'm sure someone else remembers it.

[Sixnalia]

I would have preferred a dialogue change at the end.

The champion doesn't successfully break free and use the necklace.
Magni and MOTHER instead choose to risk your life and immediately use you as the final anchor to defeat N'zoth.
Instead of you shooting the beam, you simply become a conduit that doesn't consciously shoot off your focusing iris level 5.

It doesnt change much visually.
But I would have preferred the champion to truly fail.
For Magni and MOTHER to make the call, recognize you have been lost, but refuse to let your hard work end there.
Perhaps we die. The remaining energy of the Heart brings us back. But "not completely". Which they could have tied into us being able to traverse the Shadowlands and The Maw while still being living.

Not the greatest way to get around it, but to me it feels better than what we got. And slightly ties into Shadowlands.


As a side note. I thought Wrathion's little cinematic was superb. And I think that made us expect the final cinematic to be just as well done.

[Koniwej]

I don't know the exact quote but there was something about Sargeras being so scared shitless of the old gods that he'd wish for death rather than be at their hand, or something like that. I'm sure someone else remembers it.

Yes and no.
It started like that but it was expanded/retconned for him to be afraid of what an old god(void lord) corrupted titan was capable of.

- - - Updated - - -

I would have preferred a dialogue change at the end.

The champion doesn't successfully break free and use the necklace.
Magni and MOTHER instead choose to risk your life and immediately use you as the final anchor to defeat N'zoth.
Instead of you shooting the beam, you simply become a conduit that doesn't consciously shoot off your focusing iris level 5.

It doesnt change much visually.
But I would have preferred the champion to truly fail.
For Magni and MOTHER to make the call, recognize you have been lost, but refuse to let your hard work end there.
Perhaps we die. The remaining energy of the Heart brings us back. But "not completely". Which they could have tied into us being able to traverse the Shadowlands and The Maw while still being living.

Not the greatest way to get around it, but to me it feels better than what we got. And slightly ties into Shadowlands.


As a side note. I thought Wrathion's little cinematic was superb. And I think that made us expect the final cinematic to be just as well done.

That was purification protocol not iris

[Aliven]

Again, the titans did not think it wasn't impossible to kill the old gods without killing the planet.
They thought that pulling out more old gods in the manner that they pulled y'shaarj out was detrimental to the health of the planet, because the old gods were rooted deep.

as in.

Literally pulling them out (which was what aman'thul did) would hurt the planet. Took them thousands of years of jailing and experimenting on old gods for them to develop the scalpel they needed.

And it's more dangerous to pull out something sticking in you than to just leave it.

So yes, titans are idiots deserving the fate they got.

[LanToaster]

jesus please read the chronicle.

Killing old gods isn't bad. Titans literally plucking out the old god is what's bad.

You can kill an old god. You can't do like what aman'thul did and yank y'shaarj off of the planet like a tick. pulling y'shaarj out created the well of eternity.
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...arj_so_easily/
this is a fairly reasonable explanation by someone else

Doesnt really make the Cinematic better, if you contradict stuff told Ingame and dont clearly state that its fine.

Maybe its true, or it isnt. Whatever Blizzard says is true. If it isnt clear ingame, it detracts from the overall Experience.

I never read/seen any actual Source of the "State" of the Old Gods we defeated, if they are Dead or just back in their Cell.
But again, Ingame events suggest otherwise, you visited Ulduar in Legion IIRC, and there is still Yogg Corruption, so it doesnt appear to be dead, and/or fully dealt with.

I mean, if they actually knowingly retconned the "Killing OldGods is Bad", they could´ve just added two lines after Magni told the plan:
Wrathion: "But isnt that Bad?"
Magni: "Nah its fine, ripping them straight out is, but Lasering the Brain is fine"

That would help in the Confusion.
But that would open the door for the Quetion:
"Soo, the Titans build a Laser capable of "Reshaping an entire Planet", and it can be easily tweaked to Precision Laser a Giant Brain.
Why the Fuck didnt the Titans use this to Surgically remove the Cancer from their unborn Sister?

As I said: I dont have any problem with the Lore, I just feel there is some stuff Missing this time around.

[Koniwej]

Doesnt really make the Cinematic better, if you contradict stuff told Ingame and dont clearly state that its fine.

Maybe its true, or it isnt. Whatever Blizzard says is true. If it isnt clear ingame, it detracts from the overall Experience.

I never read/seen any actual Source of the "State" of the Old Gods we defeated, if they are Dead or just back in their Cell.
But again, Ingame events suggest otherwise, you visited Ulduar in Legion IIRC, and there is still Yogg Corruption, so it doesnt appear to be dead, and/or fully dealt with.

I mean, if they actually knowingly retconned the "Killing OldGods is Bad", they could´ve just added two lines after Magni told the plan:
Wrathion: "But isnt that Bad?"
Magni: "Nah its fine, ripping them straight out is, but Lasering the Brain is fine"

That would help in the Confusion.
But that would open the door for the Quetion:
"Soo, the Titans build a Laser capable of "Reshaping an entire Planet", and it can be easily tweaked to Precision Laser a Giant Brain.
Why the Fuck didnt the Titans use this to Surgically remove the Cancer from their unborn Sister?

As I said: I dont have any problem with the Lore, I just feel there is some stuff Missing this time around.

They didn't fucking retcon "killing old gods is bad"

Y'Shaarj was the most powerful of the four Old Gods to plummet into Azeroth from the Great Dark Beyond, and the greatest bastion of the Black Empire was built around its gargantuan bulk.[3]

When the godlike titans arrived to shape and order Azeroth, they created the titan-forged to battle the Old Gods and their enslaved elemental servants. Though the titan-forged were successful in defeating and imprisoning the Elemental Lords, the titans realized that Y'Shaarj would prove too great a challenge for them; as the titan-forged approached the temple city that lay at the heart of the Black Empire, Y'Shaarj twisted their thoughts and drew out their darkest emotions. Thus, Aman'Thul, the Highfather himself, reached down through Azeroth's skies and heaved the Old God from the surface of the world. At that moment, the massive bulk of the Old One was ripped apart, and its death rattle caused entire mountains to shatter and hundreds of titan-forged to be instantly obliterated where they stood.[6]

Aman'Thul had inadvertently ripped open a wound in Azeroth's surface, and the world-soul's arcane lifeblood flowed to the surface. It was then that the Pantheon realized that the Old Gods had entrenched themselves too deep to excise without destroying Azeroth itself, and instead they resolved to imprison the remaining three Old Gods rather than killing them outright.[6]

i.e aman'thul's literal ripping them out did too much damage.

They also said that the presence lingers when they die, not "just cus corruption lingers they are alive" like you think.

[LanToaster]

I don't know the exact quote but there was something about Sargeras being so scared shitless of the old gods that he'd wish for death rather than be at their hand, or something like that. I'm sure someone else remembers it.

Thats probably because the thought of Tentacle things living on/in you is Terrifying in itself, dont you think?

Again, the titans did not think it wasn't impossible to kill the old gods without killing the planet.
They thought that pulling out more old gods in the manner that they pulled y'shaarj out was detrimental to the health of the planet, because the old gods were rooted deep.

Nowhere in your Quote does it say that Normally killing them would be fine.
If you go by Common sense: If you have a Parasite rooted so deep in something Living, that removing it would risk the Life of the Host.
What do you think would happen to the Host if you Kill the Parasite?

I´d imagine its decaying body would Poison the Host in itself. Hell, the Blood Spatter of Nzoth body parts hurts like hell immediatly, imagine you have it seeping into your very Body.

Edit: Anyhow, I´m done with this Discussion, you Quote Sources that Directly Contradict you, and dont even bother to read what you are asked/told.

[Koniwej]

Thats probably because the thought of Tentacle things living on/in you is Terrifying in itself, dont you think?


Nowhere in your Quote does it say that Normally killing them would be fine.
If you go by Common sense: If you have a Parasite rooted so deep in something Living, that removing it would risk the Life of the Host.
What do you think would happen to the Host if you Kill the Parasite?

I´d imagine its decaying body would Poison the Host in itself. Hell, the Blood Spatter of Nzoth body parts hurts like hell immediatly, imagine you have it seeping into your very Body.

Edit: Anyhow, I´m done with this Discussion, you Quote Sources that Directly Contradict you, and dont even bother to read what you are asked/told.

I told you why it was bad for the titans to kill them. I quoted blizzard's canon lore. I bolded where the danger to azeroth was. Some people can't be helped.

Nowhere in the chronicle does it say killing them was bad. The chronicle says

Aman'Thul had inadvertently ripped open a wound in Azeroth's surface

so obviously they needed a new method. They died soon after, though.