BWL world first progression thread

[ellieg]

I'm not sure what the arguments are anymore in this thread...

Classic raids will always be easier now since they weren't designed for "today", they were designed for 15 years ago. If anything, Naxx will be more interesting to watch since it will have the same patch it had back then and had some mechanics to deal with. That's not to say they weren't difficult back then, they absolutely were but it also has to do with everything else (PCs, connection, lag, knowledge, addons, gear and the current patch, bugs).

The other thing that wasn't happening much was multiple raids to feed gear to mains, something people can do to increase their DPS even further.

Right now what we're seeing is not some 'tactical execution', but rather kill it fast and ignore mechanics before it kills us, kind of the thing you expect when you overgear something ridiculously.

Whoa bro, back up. You cant be logical. You gotta pick a side if you wanna survive on these forums. Either classic is the best and you ignore anything that goes against this idea, or classic is for stupid casuals and they are all big dumb dumbs for playing a 15 year old. Everyone who criticizes retail was a r14 fully naxx geared on multiple chars in vanilla, and anyone who criticizes classic has 1 shot all mythic content and could blink at any bosses in classic to make them fall over.

- - - Updated - - -

556 guilds now, i guess all 22 240 players have been clearing it on private servers for the last 15 years xD

When MC was cleared in a couple of hours people said "but BWL will get harder", what now? Now it's Naxx, "Naxx will get impossible!!!11111".

Get a grip dude. Its easy. Even casual guilds like my friends who play will have it cleared as soon as they enter the shit.

And bwl is harder than mc. Have you personally cleared it?

[Shockzalot]

How is PTR different from private servers?

The PTR is available a limited time. It's rather cut and dry. The tactics for BWL have been readily known for 15 years and fine tuned through years and years of running the content on private servers.

[gobarj]

556 guilds now, i guess all 22 240 players have been clearing it on private servers for the last 15 years xD

When MC was cleared in a couple of hours people said "but BWL will get harder", what now? Now it's Naxx, "Naxx will get impossible!!!11111".

Get a grip dude. Its easy. Even casual guilds like my friends who play will have it cleared as soon as they enter the shit.

Uhm, I'm not even sure what you're saying. I never said Classic was hard, quite the contrary...

I just pointed out that your logic about PTR is wrong. I don't disagree that Classic raids will all be cleared on day 1, but that should be obvious to everyone.

[d00mh4cker]

Whoa bro, back up. You cant be logical. You gotta pick a side if you wanna survive on these forums. Either classic is the best and you ignore anything that goes against this idea, or classic is for stupid casuals and they are all big dumb dumbs for playing a 15 year old. Everyone who criticizes retail was a r14 fully naxx geared on multiple chars in vanilla, and anyone who criticizes classic has 1 shot all mythic content and could blink at any bosses in classic to make them fall over.

- - - Updated - - -



And bwl is harder than mc. Have you personally cleared it?

No I haven't, not on classic. I stopped playing. I've cleared it back in the days when I was like 13 years old playing with my friends.

My friends who do play now will enter bwl this weekend, i'm pretty sure they will stomp it like they did with MC.

[Chonar]

Well truth is you only need 4 tanks tops even for 4 horseman, unless you are using some odd very inefficient tactic. You never needed 8 tanks there.

We used 6! I was one of 'em!

[Rikkuu]

This is a pretty shit meme. Classic is just undeniably easier. Heres a quick example - a simple 3 minute DPS check fight. Which is harder? Retail, by a country mile. In classic, you press one button the entire fight and pot if you're feeling frisky. In retail, at bare minimum, most classes have a half dozen abilities they regularly use AND they need to line up cooldowns with procs. Even the easiest god damn mechanic in the game - standing still and hitting a target, is about a dozen times harder on retail than it is in classic.

This reminds me of when people head into Arena, fail miserably and so decide to go and twink instead and then say, unironically, that twinking is hard, takes skill and gladiator players are noobs.

Its a mega-cope. Just admit that classic is easy. Your raids that you will farm for 6 months were cleared 40 minutes after the launch. The next one will be, too, actually, probably faster as its ZG. I give that one 25 minutes.

AQ 20 and 40 will be down in about an hour and a half, so will naxx. If there is ever a mythic raid released that lasts less than a week, it is considered a joke and a massive failure on Blizzards part.

Classic raids last less time than the run time of an episode of Breaking Bad. Its actually depressing that they're wasting so much resources on Classic, when it is essentially mobile game-esque difficulty wise and everything in it is just grinding. People farming out BiS, when your raids are beaten in greens. Its hilarious. What a waste of time.

I am still trying to figure out why any of this should make me enjoy classic less. I fully expected BWL to be cleared in 2 hours, I even said it in this very topic before it was released.

[ellieg]

No I haven't, not on classic. I stopped playing. I've cleared it back in the days when I was like 13 years old playing with my friends.

My friends who do play now will enter bwl this weekend, i'm pretty sure they will stomp it like they did with MC.

Lmk if they do. I find classic easy, but most "semi hardcore" probably have 5 or so fail ppl still in them that can fuck things up. Abt 2 hours of real attempts last night for us and only got up to broodlord. Wasnt expecting a stomp for us but some threat issues caused more wipes than I was expecting.

[EnacheV]

I dont understand this discussion about "but but its cleared in 60 minutes"

If Nyalotha would be re released 2 weeks (not 15 years after) after initial release there will be a few guilds to clear in a couple of hours (adjusted for boss count and overall length+ fights)

[gobarj]

I dont understand this discussion about "but but its cleared in 60 minutes"

If Nyalotha would be re released 2 weeks (not 15 years after) after initial release there will be a few guilds to clear in a couple of hours (adjusted for boss count and overall length+ fights)

Not really, if we assume the same gear as release date.

Something to point is that in 15 years time if we had 'WoW BFA Nyalotha' then I doubt people would stomp through it like they did in BWL, primarily because we're reaching a skill ceiling now and with all the multiple raids and such there's little room for improvement. If anything, the lack of BoEs might make it harder due to less players.

The only benefit would be knowing the tactic to use and which classes to feed gear too, but I doubt you'd see the "massively overgeared characters" stomping through bosses in a minute flat.

[OriginalName]

Sure, they won this week's speedrun, but that wasn't the competition this week.

It wasn't? It was to everyone who actually plays classic at any reputable level.

[Dapower]

Wow some of the bosses were even downed without a tank. The game is mastered to a very much further point than what was offered in Vanilla, I guess im actually for Classic+ now. Since if they go for TBC, its already mastered too but if they provide more complicated patches and content cut stuff that was originally intented for Vanilla they can attract alot of people.

[d00mh4cker]

The PTR is available a limited time. It's rather cut and dry. The tactics for BWL have been readily known for 15 years and fine tuned through years and years of running the content on private servers.

It was cleared under an hour like since the beginning of private servers. Guilds who haven't played private servers for 15 years are clearing it fast, like really fast, first 1, by just watching some tactic vid on youtube on positioning.

It's like saying "climbing mount everest isn't hard, people have done it for hundreds of years, fine tuning the tactics up the mountain".

"Winning the PGA tour isn't hard, people have done it for over 100 years now, just watch a vid".

The thing about retail is that you can't just watch a vid and then clear it, there are so much more mechanics to take into account compared to classic.

I'm not a fan boy, i hate retail, i dont hate classic, i get it, the gameplay is far better then retail, but it's not hard, not even close to hard,

[Monster Hunter]

The PTR is available a limited time. It's rather cut and dry. The tactics for BWL have been readily known for 15 years and fine tuned through years and years of running the content on private servers.

"fine tuned" haha

I'm not sure why it took 15 years to fine tune 3 or 4 mechanics per boss but if that's the excuse your going with fine by me.

[Shockzalot]

Sure, I agree, but it's still easy. Guilds who haven't played private servers for 15 years are clearing it fast, like really fast, first 1, by just watching some tactic vid on youtube on positioning.

It's like saying "climbing mount everest isn't hard, people have done it for hundreds of years, fine tuning the tactics up the mountain".

"Winning the PGA tour isn't hard, people have done it for over 100 years now, just watch a vid".

The thing about retail is that you can't just watch a vid and then clear it, there are so much more mechanics to take into account compared to classic.

I'm not a fan boy, i hate retail, i dont hate classic, i get it, the gameplay is far better then retail, but it's not hard, not even close to hard,

You're ranting about a bunch of irrelevant drivel. These guilds that cleared BWL in under an hour have been speed clearing the content for years.

[d00mh4cker]

You're ranting about a bunch of irrelevant drivel. These guilds that cleared BWL in under an hour have been speed clearing the content for years.

Yes, since the first private server. You can find vids from 10 years ago guilds clearing it under 1 hour.
You dont need 15 years to "fine tune" tactics (positioning).

[Shockzalot]

Yes, since the first private server. You can find vids from 10 years ago guilds clearing it under 1 hour.
You dont need 15 years to "fine tune" tactics (positioning).

People always find a way to improve efficiency with time. The way things are done now compared to vanilla are a night and day difference.

[Xath]

Maybe people should stop claiming that Classic raids are/will be difficult, then.

They were difficult then. Now it's just following videos with gear that is way better than guilds had coming in and crazy stacked comps with gm weps.

[kranur]

I'm not sure what the arguments are anymore in this thread...

Classic raids will always be easier now since they weren't designed for "today", they were designed for 15 years ago. If anything, Naxx will be more interesting to watch since it will have the same patch it had back then and had some mechanics to deal with. That's not to say they weren't difficult back then, they absolutely were but it also has to do with everything else (PCs, connection, lag, knowledge, addons, gear and the current patch, bugs).

The other thing that wasn't happening much was multiple raids to feed gear to mains, something people can do to increase their DPS even further.

Right now what we're seeing is not some 'tactical execution', but rather kill it fast and ignore mechanics before it kills us, kind of the thing you expect when you overgear something ridiculously.

Can't wait for naxx to also get blown over so that this "but it's 1.12" can go away.

Sure if it wasn't 1.12 it would take slightly longer but it would just be a minor inconvenince. The real reasons are the knowledge and the raids themselves were not that hard to begin with.

[d00mh4cker]

People always find a way to improve efficiency with time. The way things are done now compared to vanilla are a night and day difference.

I'm guessing most private server players comes from Nostalrius era which opened up 2015.
So this "all 50 000" players who have so far cleared BWL first day have been "fine tuning" tactics for 15 years on private servers. They haven't. It's not needed.

You can clear it in a day or two by just not being stupid.

[Xath]

Lmk if they do. I find classic easy, but most "semi hardcore" probably have 5 or so fail ppl still in them that can fuck things up. Abt 2 hours of real attempts last night for us and only got up to broodlord. Wasnt expecting a stomp for us but some threat issues caused more wipes than I was expecting.

You could carry 25 people though BWL about 15 through AQ40 and 5ish through late naxx. If you are having multiple wipes half your raid team is likely functionally brain dead since you have videos and iron clad strategies that work now.