Hunter in Shadowlands

[Kayb]

Go back to the old idea that pets can be any spec you want, instead of the forced spec that BFA introduced.

Yes! This x infinity!

[Kyphael]

Actually, until Legion, using ranged weapons was very much a prerequisite for a Hunter spec. Even in Vanilla. You might argue that this Hunter identity was too restrictive, but the fact is we are the only class that uses ranged weapons to any significant capacity and that's what made the class most unique. Plus, this fantasy of a primitive Hunter that can't use ranged weapons is not compelling to most people and that's evident from Survival's pitiful adoption since it went melee. Yes, it did expand on the WoW Hunter identity but in doing so it made it far more dilute and ill-defined. It also heavily compromises the ability of the game to explore ranged weapon fantasies in favour of yet another melee spec.

Novelty ideas should not occupy entire specs; especially as replacements for previously well-established and widely-enjoyed ranged spec. At most there should be a melee option in a spec that's ranged by default via a talent choice that swaps ranged weapon abilities for melee weapon ones in exchange for a damage and health boost. And that spec should be BM, given that the few melee Hunter fantasies that actually have lore backing are heavily based on a pet. SV spends too much time imitating BM anyway.

P.S. It's important to note how you immediately pivoted from an argument based on gameplay ("it's almost like playing a class altogether distinct from hunter.") to one about identity. Like I said, from a gameplay perspective, if one spec feels like a different class to the other specs in the class then it has failed at the core goal of a spec in the first place: building a unique take on the core identity and style of the class. This Legion/BFA trend of raising the standards of spec differentiation to that of classes is poisoning class design and even Blizzard is admitting now that it was a mistake.

I get your point, and it's valid, but sorry, this is where we'll have to agree to disagree, just because I was a huge fan of pruning all classes to build up 36 unique, distinct specs because it provides a lot of replay value to me. I can play 2-3 hunter characters, and they all feel fresh every time because each is one of the three specs. I'm not a fan of Blizzard back peddling away from Legion class design to give fire Mages frostbolt just so "it feels like a mage." Dude, you're shooting FIRE from your hands and you can TELEPORT, you're a mage. lol You do not need Frostbolt to validate your role as a mage, That's just how I feel about specs. Un-pruning is going to greatly deminish my interest in actively playing up to 36 characters.

[Bepples]

I get your point, and it's valid, but sorry, this is where we'll have to agree to disagree, just because I was a huge fan of pruning all classes to build up 36 unique, distinct specs because it provides a lot of replay value to me. I can play 2-3 hunter characters, and they all feel fresh every time because each is one of the three specs. I'm not a fan of Blizzard back peddling away from Legion class design to give fire Mages frostbolt just so "it feels like a mage." Dude, you're shooting FIRE from your hands and you can TELEPORT, you're a mage. lol You do not need Frostbolt to validate your role as a mage, That's just how I feel about specs. Un-pruning is going to greatly deminish my interest in actively playing up to 36 characters.

No, I don't "agree to disagree". You're wrong. Having 36 micro-classes instead of 12 classes with 3 specialisations each is worse. Pruning elements of a spec just because they share elements with another spec is a bad thing. Addition by subtraction is a lie. There is a good reason you get an enormous volume of complaints about the direction of class design in Legion and BFA. The game should not cater to people who hop between classes every other day like you.

Plus, it's not like the specs were totally homogenous before Legion. After Cata you had a lot of divergence between the specs; Legion took it overboard and actively ruined many specs for the sake of making them "unique". Being unique is just part of making a good spec. It is not the sole goal of a spec's existence for which it's worth tearing apart a spec's core identity, connection to its class, and gameplay flow/playstyle yet that's how they treated the Hunter specs among others.

[Kaver]

No, I don't "agree to disagree". You're wrong. Having 36 micro-classes instead of 12 classes with 3 specialisations each is worse.

I agree with you in relation to classes vs specs. However, it is subjective. You cannot just say he is wrong, because it's an opinion and he is entitled to that opinion. Even though I agree with you, it is still not a fact that the first is worse than the latter

[Bepples]

I agree with you in relation to classes vs specs. However, it is subjective. You cannot just say he is wrong, because it's an opinion and he is entitled to that opinion. Even though I agree with you, it is still not a fact that the first is worse than the latter

I couldn't care less about what you of all people have to say.

[Kaver]

I couldn't care less about what you of all people have to say.

All I'm saying is that you should try to broaden your horizon a bit.

Try play other classes for example. The BM hunter is so easy to play (it basicly plays itself) that it gives a skewed view of what the game is. Try other classes/specs that actually provides actual gameplay and is not just a pet simulator.

[Axram]

all I wish for is for DOT survival range spec

I kinda want MM to become this RANGE DOT spec as the current MM is niche and boring and not useable in ARENA or pvp

[Sharper13]

You're wrong.

That's not how opinions work, person.

Now, if there were 36 completely unique specs? Count me in. There aren't, and there won't be, it's all too much builder > spender, so I'm on board with what you're saying, let's get back to feel you're playing a class and not 1 of 3 half baked specs.

[Kaver]

That's not how opinions work, person.

Now, if there were 36 completely unique specs? Count me in. There aren't, and there won't be, it's all too much builder > spender, so I'm on board with what you're saying, let's get back to feel you're playing a class and not 1 of 3 half baked specs.

FpicEail is a pretty small-minded person. If you don't agree with his opinion then he will claim that you are objectively wrong.

[skynet1990]

I think one Hunter Specc to become Melee over time was inevitable since they were all pretty much the same: Ranged DD only Speccs. Those Classes like Warlock Hunter and Mage mostly share one Fate nowadays, one Specc is Great/OP, one Specc is Meh/OK, and one is Very-Meh/Garbage excluding very seldom Exceptions.

I think most of the Community had expected (so did I) that most sense would make Beastmaster, because fighting in melee Range alongside with your Pet maybe with Barbed Strike instead of Shot ^^.
However as Melee Survival was a Thought Blizzard had carrying with them since Classic they decided it will be SV. I liked Range SV the most out of all Hunter Speccs.

Maybe we will see some refreshing Changes whens its back to Bring the Player and Focus on Class instead od Specc. Kill Shot was already announced to make a return unfortunately not told for what Specc(s) as it will be difficult for SV without Ranged Weapon.

[Axram]

Every hunter I speak to wants a RANGED survival or RANGED dot spec

the whole melee SV is a good idea but its too clunky for a class that is primarily built for range damage

I loved the WoD survival spec BLACK ARROW, EXPLOSIVE SHOT, SERPENT STING , Kill shot , the whole gameplay felt fluid and fun and I was able to concentrate more on controlling my pet and less on casting ability's

[skynet1990]

The biggest Problem is, that melee are far mor superior in M+ than Ranges in MDI. That makes a Problem as Randoms just want to copy MDI for convenience. But the Overall Perfmormance of SV is mediocre compared to the Top Melee Speccs.

In terms of DPS Balance BFA is definately one of the worst Addons ever released. They mostly didn't even try except for Number Shifting (Compared to former Addons). I hope in Shadowlands i can really really chose my specc I want and wont get busted by community ^^

[Kyphael]

No, I don't "agree to disagree". You're wrong. Having 36 micro-classes instead of 12 classes with 3 specialisations each is worse. Pruning elements of a spec just because they share elements with another spec is a bad thing. Addition by subtraction is a lie. There is a good reason you get an enormous volume of complaints about the direction of class design in Legion and BFA. The game should not cater to people who hop between classes every other day like you.

Plus, it's not like the specs were totally homogenous before Legion. After Cata you had a lot of divergence between the specs; Legion took it overboard and actively ruined many specs for the sake of making them "unique". Being unique is just part of making a good spec. It is not the sole goal of a spec's existence for which it's worth tearing apart a spec's core identity, connection to its class, and gameplay flow/playstyle yet that's how they treated the Hunter specs among others.

It's my preference and you're not going to convince me otherwise so you might as well agree to disagree or move on. I prefer 36 "micro-classes", IE: Legion class design versus what we're going back to and that's that, end of story.

[Bepples]

All I'm saying is that you should try to broaden your horizon a bit.

Try play other classes for example. The BM hunter is so easy to play (it basicly plays itself) that it gives a skewed view of what the game is. Try other classes/specs that actually provides actual gameplay and is not just a pet simulator.

No, that's not at all what you were saying in your first reply to me and it's not related to the topic at hand at all. You are yet again trying to construct an avenue to patronise Hunters for being brainless like you do in literally every single Hunter thread you have ever posted in. I have no idea why you are allowed to continue posting here.

P.S. Believe it or not, in my 15 years of playing this game I have actually played classes other than Hunters, so your point is not only irrelevant but uninformed.

That's not how opinions work, person.

The Legion approach of over-the-top pruning and desperately chasing spec distinction over everything else has so negatively affected class design I have zero reason to respect any opinion that says it was a good thing. Go play the reasonable moderate card somewhere else. I'm not interested.

I think one Hunter Specc to become Melee over time was inevitable since they were all pretty much the same: Ranged DD only Speccs.

This is nonsense revisionism. They were not all the same thing. Enough with treating ranged specs as expendable. There was zero reason to expect a Hunter spec to become melee before Legion was announced, especially as the class was very widely enjoyed and successful as a ranged class and had an identity centred around ranged weapons from the very beginning.

- - - Updated - - -

It's my preference and you're not going to convince me otherwise so you might as well agree to disagree or move on. I prefer 36 "micro-classes", IE: Legion class design versus what we're going back to and that's that, end of story.

Your personal preference is bad. I can only hope that Blizzard doubles down on their efforts to undo pruning and opinions like yours fall by the wayside. If things went your way class design would get even worse. Your ideas are poison.

[Blackmist]

Play Horizon Zero Dawn.

That's how WoW hunters should be.

[Kaver]

No, that's not at all what you were saying in your first reply to me and it's not related to the topic at hand at all. You are yet again trying to construct an avenue to patronise Hunters for being brainless like you do in literally every single Hunter thread you have ever posted in. I have no idea why you are allowed to continue posting here.

P.S. Believe it or not, in my 15 years of playing this game I have actually played classes other than Hunters, so your point is not only irrelevant but uninformed.

Of course it is related to the topic of you being small-minded when it comes to other people's opinions. You cannot say that an opinion is wrong, because an opinon is subjective, but you still said it which just shows that you don't value input from other people unless they agree with you. People like that should just sit in the corner because you add nothing constructive to the table.

Also, it doesn't matter if you have played other classes/specs in the last 15 years, it matters what you do right now. BM hunter is playing WoW on easy mode. If you take a BM hunter into a M+ dungeon you can effectively avoid everything that makes the dungeon challenging. BM hunter makes all mechanics of the game less punishing reduces the overall difficulty of most content. This gives you a skewed picture of the game and makes your input less valid in relation to classes and specs. Because you know nothing.

[Kyphael]

Your personal preference is bad. I can only hope that Blizzard doubles down on their efforts to undo pruning and opinions like yours fall by the wayside. If things went your way class design would get even worse. Your ideas are poison.

I don't care, I don't play the game to placate your opinion. I play it according to my preference. I had two full expansions of the class design I loved, I hope it really ate at your craw because I enjoyed every second of my poisonous class design.

#36microspecs

[Bepples]

Of course it is related to the topic of you being small-minded when it comes to other people's opinions. You cannot say that an opinion is wrong, because an opinon is subjective, but you still said it which just shows that you don't value input from other people unless they agree with you. People like that should just sit in the corner because you add nothing constructive to the table.

Also, it doesn't matter if you have played other classes/specs in the last 15 years, it matters what you do right now. BM hunter is playing WoW on easy mode. If you take a BM hunter into a M+ dungeon you can effectively avoid everything that makes the dungeon challenging. BM hunter makes all mechanics of the game less punishing reduces the overall difficulty of most content. This gives you a skewed picture of the game and makes your input less valid in relation to classes and specs. Because you know nothing.

I do not care for your continued efforts at patronising Hunters. One wonders why you spend so much of your time bashing Hunters on the forums for being stupid in your eyes. That's what's really small-minded here. I won't reply to any further comment from you because I'm sick and tired of your concerted attempts to derail every single Hunter thread you post in with tirades about how all BM Hunters are inferior untermensch. It is irrelevant and derailing and I know you have been infracted for it at least once already.

[Sondrelk]

All this talk of Survival, and i just wish we could get to have another shot at fixing the WoD MM spec. It was so close to being the perfect class fantasy that still allowed a lot of flexibility in how you play. And then Legion removed pretty much all that made WoD MM great in favor of making something completely different.

Just redo WoD MM with an ability that either allows moevement while attacking in short burts, or an ability to instantly regain sniper buff.

[Bepples]

I don't care, I don't play the game to placate your opinion. I play it according to my preference. I had two full expansions of the class design I loved, I hope it really ate at your craw because I enjoyed every second of my poisonous class design.

#36microspecs

Yeah because your vision of class design has worked out so well and these past expansions are clearly remembered as the pinnacle of class design for all, right?

People have been begging to go back to pre-Legion states for various specs since Legion launched. We are finally making steps to undo everything that went wrong and you are doubling down on the absolute worst class design has had to offer in the past 5 years. Even Blizzard is now moving on, at least to some extent.