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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Yeah this show isn't getting to that point lol
    Cynicism? How surprising.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    Or any of her outfits.
    We need this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Tuon

    This is pretty much the image I had in my head for her. +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    The show isnt even out and a large number of posts are "SJWs will ruin this". Calm down. You're worst than actual SJWs.
    Alas, these people lack the self awareness to really understand your point. See: more posts from the guy you're replying to.

  2. #442
    Titan Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Hold up

    What's this lesbian business people were on bout? So far i haven't seen anything to suggest that.

  3. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    For me Tuon is Lupita Nyong'o
    I know it wouldn't/couldn't happen, but when I first read the series, I pictured Skin fom Skunk Anansie.
    Check out the blog I write for LEGENDARY Indie Label Flicknife Records:

    Blog Thirty is live! In which we discuss our latest releases, and our great new line of T-shirts.
    https://www.flickniferecords.co.uk/blog/item/30-blog-30

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    I could be wrong as it’s been a few years since I actually went though the series but aren’t there some red ajah who weren’t a bunch of evil bitches and just did there job right? If I remember right being a red isn’t a inherently bad thing they just had a higher amount of bad then the other colours.
    It's basically like being Slytherin is the closest equivalent.

  5. #445
    Titan Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Wait, you read the books and did not stumble on the hundreds of references to "pillow friends" both in the Tower and beyond? Wheel of Time world is filled with lesbians and bisexual women.
    Well I'm still on the.... 11th book, but i didn't notice anything that would make me outright think that.

    I think there was only one passage where i thought it suggested a couple of sisters spent the night together romantically

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    Well I'm still on the.... 11th book, but i didn't notice anything that would make me outright think that.

    I think there was only one passage where i thought it suggested a couple of sisters spent the night together romantically
    Have you read New Spring?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    Cynicism? How surprising.

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    We need this.

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    This is pretty much the image I had in my head for her. +1

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    Alas, these people lack the self awareness to really understand your point. See: more posts from the guy you're replying to.

    Not cynicism, optimism that most people won't be okay with a radical departure from the series that shits all over Jordan's work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    If they were the vile shitbags that some others (not saying you) have presented them as, they wouldn't have been willing to view their duty in that way. They would have just doubled down on the idea that the men they'd always (and fairly) perceived as a danger were dangerous. Instead they grew, embraced change. I think, too, that partly what happens to the reader is that Jordan is either deliberately manipulating us or course correcting himself. Most of the reds we meet early on are pretty awful, Liandrin is one of the first examples we get and, well, you know. As the series goes deeper he shows us more and more examples of decent members of the Ajah and once it's plain how wrongheaded Elaida was, we can see by the new choices the group makes in their leadership that they learned from their mistakes.

    As a group they have one of the more interesting and, as you suggest, redemptive story arcs. We meet them just as their mission changes from vital to irrelevant so it's easy to just see them as worthless, yet they arguably did some of the most important, difficult, and valuable work of all the Ajahs for the past two thousand years since the breaking. We see that adapting to the change is hard for them, but they ultimately pull it off admirably.

    It's fine that the showrunner likes them, suggests to me that he gets the big picture and is into the story.
    Over 20% of them go dark while being the largest ajah without counting the forcibly turned. They are basically Slytherin. They are vile and disgusting sexist authoritarians.

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Not cynicism, optimism that most people won't be okay with a radical departure from the series that shits all over Jordan's work.
    I think wanting the show to fail because Perrin is brown is kinda funny. Top tier WoT fan right here folks.

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Over 20% of them go dark while being the largest ajah without counting the forcibly turned. They are basically Slytherin. They are vile and disgusting sexist authoritarians.
    Over 20% of the Blues, Grays, and Browns go dark too - so that childish comparison applies to them as well.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    Well I'm still on the.... 11th book, but i didn't notice anything that would make me outright think that.

    I think there was only one passage where i thought it suggested a couple of sisters spent the night together romantically
    I don't like when people take those references and turn them into "sexual hints", a pillow friend is a pillow friend. When it is meant to be more, it is said, but we shouldn't take all such references as such.

    however I do agree, there was a lesbian moment between a couple of the sister. It makes sense though in the REd Ajah… male hate, dealing with males etc, in an all female society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Tuon

    I imagiend her as more the East african blue-black complexion, not the usual brown of afro people.

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Have you read New Spring?

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    Not cynicism, optimism that most people won't be okay with a radical departure from the series that shits all over Jordan's work.

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    Over 20% of them go dark while being the largest ajah without counting the forcibly turned. They are basically Slytherin. They are vile and disgusting sexist authoritarians.
    And a lot of the Aes Sedai from other Ajahs went dark aswell, what was your point?

    The Red have devoted their life to keep the world safe from mad men who can channel, they are strong and hard as they need to be. They also take upon them selv to bind the Asjaman (not sure how that is spelled) to them, to keep them under control. How is that vile and disgusting?
    Quote Originally Posted by atenime45 View Post
    The 10% reward. It's was unspoken rule that you DONT attack other faction so everyone could enjoy the 10% reward. But now no one cares about that anymore

  11. #451
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    It's basically like being Slytherin is the closest equivalent.
    Given that Harry was suppose to be slytherin is that really a bad thing?

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    I don't like when people take those references and turn them into "sexual hints", a pillow friend is a pillow friend. When it is meant to be more, it is said, but we shouldn't take all such references as such.

    however I do agree, there was a lesbian moment between a couple of the sister. It makes sense though in the REd Ajah… male hate, dealing with males etc, in an all female society.
    Jordan was pretty clear on what pillow friends meant.

    Source
    "Well, you put fifteen-year-old girls in a tower filled with almost entirely women, with their hormones raging on overdrive, keep them away from men, because you can’t afford to lose any of them, and what do you think is going to happen?"

    Marcon 36 convention in May 2001

    "Pillow friends are not just good friends. Oh, they are that, too, but they also get hot and sweaty together and muss up the sheets something fierce. By the way, pillow friends is a term used in the White Tower. The same relationship between men or women elsewhere would be called something else, depending on the country."

    Robert Jordan's Blog on September 30, 2005

    "For the most part, in this world such things are taken as a matter of course. Remember, Cadsuane is surprised that Shalon and Ailil were so hot to hide that they had been sharing a bed even knowing how prim and proper Cairhienin are on the surface. Well, for many it is just on the surface."

    The Official Robert Jordan Blog on October 6, 2005

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    Jordan was pretty clear on what pillow friends meant.
    Well done, thanks for sharing that. So it defintiely is what Nymrohd said it was.

  14. #454
    Titan Grimbold21's Avatar
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    "For the most part, in this world such things are taken as a matter of course. Remember, Cadsuane is surprised that Shalon and Ailil were so hot to hide that they had been sharing a bed even knowing how prim and proper Cairhienin are on the surface. Well, for many it is just on the surface."

    I think that was the passage where I actually considered there to be a lesbian moment.

    Other than that, I guess I was just too innocent to consider "pillow friends" in a sexual way.

    To be honest, I prefer this depiction

  15. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Welp Rafe's primary call word is diversity so much so that he threatened to make Perrin and Lan gay when people called him out on his garabage casting. His primary goal is diversity he very clearly doesn't give a shit about the books as can he seen by him identifying as red ajah and thinkong that's a good thing.
    Trying to retcon an existing story arc to fit your own narrative will do nothing but get the people who own the IP to yank it out from under your feet. So he'd best be careful what kind of stunts he tries to pull.

  16. #456
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    It's basically like being Slytherin is the closest equivalent.
    I was curious to see what the authors had to say about the Red Ajah so I was reading a bit from them this afternoon. This is from Sanderson's blog, emphasis mine.

    Source

    One final piece for his storyline came during my rereads of the series, where I felt that at times the fandom had been too down on the Red Ajah. True, they had some serious problems with their leadership in the books, but their purpose was noble. I feel that many readers wanted to treat them as the Wheel of Time equivalent of Slytherin—the house of no-goods, with every member a various form of nasty. Robert Jordan himself worked to counteract this, adding a great deal of depth to the Ajah by introducing Pevara. She had long been one of my favorite side characters, and I wanted her to have a strong plot in the last books. Building a relationship between her and Androl felt very natural to me, as it not only allowed me to explore the bonding process, but also let me work a small romance into the last three books—another thing that was present in most Wheel of Time books. The ways I pushed the Androl/Pevara bond was also something of an exploration and experiment. Though this was suggested by the things Robert Jordan wrote, I did have some freedom in how to adapt it. I felt that paralleling the wolf bond made sense, with (of course) its own distinctions.

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    Well I'm still on the.... 11th book, but i didn't notice anything that would make me outright think that.
    I think there was only one passage where i thought it suggested a couple of sisters spent the night together romantically
    The term shows up 2-3 times in the whole series...it's forgettable.

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    https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Black_Ajah

    Below are the number of Black sisters per legitimate Ajah in Verin's list plus the two revealed later. The percentage shows the proportion of sisters per Ajah revealed to be Black.

    Red: forty-eight (making at least 24% of all Red sisters actually Black, possibly because they hunted the future Dragon and were known to hate men, making them attractive candidates for the Black)

    Green: thirty-eight (21%)

    Gray: thirty-two (22%)

    Brown: twenty-eight (21.5%)

    Yellow: twenty-one (17.5%)

    Blue: twenty-two (23% high density is probably because they have the greater and more efficient eyes-and-ears system, and are known to be ambitious and good at intrigues)

    White: seventeen (17.5%)

    Unknown Ajah: 4

    Total: 210 (22%―at a minimum, between one-fifth and one-fourth of all Aes Sedai were Black Ajah)

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    Well I'm still on the.... 11th book, but i didn't notice anything that would make me outright think that.

    I think there was only one passage where i thought it suggested a couple of sisters spent the night together romantically
    Its more implied than anything in the books - the only time it is outright stated is by RJ. Pillow Friends is the Aes Sedai turn for it and most of them give it up when they receive the shawl. Call it something like college experimentation. Interestingly Siuan and Moraine were pillow friends when they were in training, and Elaida also had one.

    Some AS though continue on with it after receiving the shawl. Galina, the head of the Red Ajah (and also a Black), was one, but she had a darker side. She forced or coerced other AS and even accepted into being her pillow friends. Of course, she was in turn captured by the Shaido, completely broken and possibly (once again implied but not stated), turned into a sex slave for one of the Shaido Wise Ones.

    There was also a married Carihein noblewoman and a Sea Folk woman who got together and didn't want to be found out, mostly cause she was married and the Cairhienians were a bit more prude in such maters. Rand caught them at one put, tied them up and shoved them under a bed....

    I do wonder if they are going to go into the dark side of the Red Ajah at all, or if it going to get swept under the rug. Namely that the two previous Reds who were made Amyrlin almost destroyed the tower and were stilled as a result. And then Elaida tries to make it number 3. And there was the Vileness that happened just before the books, started by the Blacks but carried out enthusiastically by a lot of Reds, the crimes of which the Tower had to try and cover up.

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennadrel View Post
    Trying to retcon an existing story arc to fit your own narrative will do nothing but get the people who own the IP to yank it out from under your feet. So he'd best be careful what kind of stunts he tries to pull.
    The thing is Robert isn't alive anymore and I feel like his wife will greenlight most things to get his work remembered even if it's not the same as the book as long as it ends the same she will likely be fine with it. I don't necessarily agree with it but she is getting up there as well and has seen the work kind of fade from public view while GoT has been heavily reinvigorated by the show with people reading the books after seeing the show.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    I was curious to see what the authors had to say about the Red Ajah so I was reading a bit from them this afternoon. This is from Sanderson's blog, emphasis mine.
    Yeah Sanderson changed a lot I'm very aware. Pevara serves a similar purpose as Andromeda, Severus and Regulus even Draco in the end. It's not saying all Reds are bad but there are a lot who are and in general they have an insanely toxic attitude towards half their race just because of the gender they were born as not just men who can channel but men in general. They also have their own leader who they view as equal to the Amerlyin or even higher.

    That blog pretty much tells us that very little of the Black Tower storyline is from Jordan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kharadin View Post
    I think wanting the show to fail because Perrin is brown is kinda funny. Top tier WoT fan right here folks.
    I want the show to fail because there seems likely to be radical departures from the story as written and I do not want the story in the hands of a red loving scumbag. We already saw GoT get massacred in the end and that was with the author still alive to at least nudge them close to his story. If it fails before it gets traction it's more likely to get a faithful adaptation in the future. If it's successful we are unlikely to ever get a faithful adaptation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Noxina View Post
    And a lot of the Aes Sedai from other Ajahs went dark aswell, what was your point?

    The Red have devoted their life to keep the world safe from mad men who can channel, they are strong and hard as they need to be. They also take upon them selv to bind the Asjaman (not sure how that is spelled) to them, to keep them under control. How is that vile and disgusting?
    The reds by and large have been shown to have great dislike of men in general.

  20. #460
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    I want the show to fail because there seems likely to be radical departures from the story as written and I do not want the story in the hands of a red loving scumbag. We already saw GoT get massacred in the end and that was with the author still alive to at least nudge them close to his story. If it fails before it gets traction it's more likely to get a faithful adaptation in the future. If it's successful we are unlikely to ever get a faithful adaptation.
    Okay, superfan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Looks too old. Tuon is supposed to barely look adult.
    Also don't we only ever see her with no hair/short stubble on her head?

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