Is Classic too easy?

[scelero]

Fun Fact: Back when WoW was released, back in the age of FF11 and Everquest, it was considered "The casual MMO".

It's like people forget Ion's story. You're right though. WoW was very casual. Still is as there are still NO SKILL SHOTS whatsoever.

Imagine skills shots as rank 4 essences. I hate that you can just click on someone, not even facing them but can hit them as a hunter. Makes no sense.

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Leveling is a lot harder, endgame is a lot easier. That's what happens when you have an old game with more punishing mechanics vs. a 15 year old version of the same game that holds your hand but still also wants to be an esport that nobody watches.

You do realize they took classic quest items droprated, and traded it for titanforging/sockets/etc. Leveling isn't hard on classic. It's RNG. Just like gearing in retail isn't hard, it's RNG.

[potis]

Still 1.12 melee specs dominate the dps logs. So much for destroyed performance. I agree on the knowledge part though. Back in vanilla you wouldn't run raid comps with such a heavy meele lineup.

Because its Classic and its an unbalanced game and scaling is off, now add 40% to 1.12 melee specs and realize what was going on before 1.8.

The numbers i could see with my Rank 10 + Arcanite Reaper+30% BG buff before 1.8, i reached them again with Enrage+BG buff + C'thun weapon+ Aq40/Naxx gear levels, the change was massive to the performance of specs.

I also understand it was 10000% justified cause that shit was broken

But anyone claiming the stupid bullshit about "Its 1.12 thats why its so easy and the numbers are so high", its just clueless about the actual Vanilla and Classic itself.

Its so easy because its 15 years after, and it has been min-maxed to shit, also it was never hard, it was tedious, staying online for the full raid time of 3 hours without disconnecting was the actual accomplishment back in 2005-2006.

[salate]

Classic did a good job with that unfriendly game design where two mobs could kill you and a lil pull with that enormous aggro range (Murlocs say hello), and quests which ask you to go around the world twice... to let people remember the game as the most hardest game in real life.
Nothing else I guess.

[Domixux]

It's like people forget Ion's story. You're right though. WoW was very casual. Still is as there are still NO SKILL SHOTS whatsoever.

Imagine skills shots as rank 4 essences. I hate that you can just click on someone, not even facing them but can hit them as a hunter. Makes no sense.

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You do realize they took classic quest items droprated, and traded it for titanforging/sockets/etc. Leveling isn't hard on classic. It's RNG. Just like gearing in retail isn't hard, it's RNG.

It's not just the droprate though. In Retail you can chain pull a bunch of mobs and aoe them down, as every spec seems to have a potent multi mob damage ability coupled with a shield or emergency selfheal. In classic depending on each class you might die if you pull more then one mob at a time. Add longer downtimes during pulls and longer cooldowns for major abilities to this and the leveling experience actually becomes harder. But harder in this case doesn't mean you need more skill, it's just means you need to go slower.

[Itori]

Vanilla was created with the mindset that its about the journey and not the destination. Classic has a playerbase full of people that wanted to bum rush to the end and raid, be it either to prove the old community wrong on difficulty or just to say they did it during that time. During vanilla the content we had was all there was, we didnt even know what could come next let alone an expansion, most of us just took our time leveling, hung out in zones chatting for hours, it was kinda like its own old school chat room with entertainment.

To answer the question is it too easy? No its not too hard either its like that balance of both worlds, but you can make it easier or harder depending on what class you play during your journey, like you could steamroll the entire game with a mage, but you might sit grinding 1-2 mobs at a time on a paladin.

[Lolites]

And MC was cleared yeah fast with new talents and new patch, something that wasnt there in Vanilla. Its like doing Argus with BfA talents, I remember m+, people that could barely get to 3k score were going over 4k in 2 days after new talents.

Yes, classic wow is easier compared to retail, but put 40 people in MC without knowing anything and they will wipe like idiots for days.

well except for few bosses tactic in MC is dont stay in shit, so unless those people would be braindead there is no chance of wiping on those...

my retail guild actualy made "branch" on classic, they have 2ppl who play since vanila and zero private server players and they cleared the MC on first run with 3 wipes (one rag one executus i believe and one on trash) and the peak of their "preparation" was geting to 60 and a little gear... and we are extremely casual guild that seldom even walks into mythic raid, most of those who tried classic havent even cleared hc nyalotha...

[Monster Hunter]

Classic has extremely little content if you're not a raider or a serious PvP:er, however I'm beginning to feel that the content it does have is way too easy. Raids are cleared the first reset by most guilds and then you're back to raid logging for farm raids that are almost as easy as LFR is in retail.
It doesn't give you a sense of accomplishment and the character progression is extremely slow, with new gear upgrades coming at you about once a month.
It's starting to feel like, what's the point if there's no challenge?

It's like me playing div 6 cricket.

Most players there are kids and old men in there 60s.

When I was injured after smashing my hand to pieces and having multiple surgery's I played for our bottom team in the league whilst recovering.

I was alot of fun for a few weeks, being the big fish, smashing 50s for fun and taking 3-5 wickets.

But eventually the novalty wore off. Its kind of like the dopamine hit from success only turns its self off if you keep achieving it in a similar way with no challenge.

I don't know with classic, my playing if classic is unique in that I never wanted to play it, my freinds want me to, so our agreement is that they do all the work whilst I'm afk playing other games, they leveled my char and I afk raid MC and just buff now and then and I just finished BWL being afk so I can't really say I play it. But I do and have played other very easy games in the past so I understand the drain you get after a while of doing easy tasks.

[Domixux]

It's like me playing div 6 cricket.

Most players there are kids and old men in there 60s.

When I was injured after smashing my hand to pieces and having multiple surgery's I played for our bottom team in the league whilst recovering.

I was alot of fun for a few weeks, being the big fish, smashing 50s for fun and taking 3-5 wickets.

But eventually the novalty wore off. Its kind of like the dopamine hit from success only turns its self off if you keep achieving it in a similar way with no challenge.

I don't know with classic, my playing if classic is unique in that I never wanted to play it, my freinds want me to, so our agreement is that they do all the work whilst I'm afk playing other games, they leveled my char and I afk raid MC and just buff now and then and I just finished BWL being afk so I can't really say I play it. But I do and have played other very easy games in the past so I understand the drain you get after a while of doing easy tasks.

So you don't wanna play classic, by your own words you can't really say that you acutally play it and still you come into this thread saying this game is easy. Just wow.

[antelope591]

Big part of why I stopped playing classic is people try harding it like retail. People asking for only certain classes like mages for dungeons. Or the extreme min maxing being done for raids that are no harder than normal difficulty. At least in high keys or Mythic raids this behaviour is justified. On classic its just like.....why? The point of it to me was just to chill. If I want actual hard content I'll play retail.

[Echocho]

But I do and have played other very easy games in the past so I understand the drain you get after a while of doing easy tasks.

Drain was a perfect way of describing it. That's exactly how it feels farming trivial content week after week.

[ellieg]

Big part of why I stopped playing classic is people try harding it like retail. People asking for only certain classes like mages for dungeons. Or the extreme min maxing being done for raids that are no harder than normal difficulty. At least in high keys or Mythic raids this behaviour is justified. On classic its just like.....why? The point of it to me was just to chill. If I want actual hard content I'll play retail.

Ppl want meta specs cause it's faster. Some ppl want to farm a piece of gear with a 10% drop rate. It's fun the first 2 times but when you gotta run it abt 15 times to get the piece you want, ppl would rather do it in 30 mins instead of an hour.

[Kolvarg]

Imho Classic is at its core harder than any of the default (easiest) settings in modern WoW, mostly because it relies much more on teamwork since your character is not a superhero from the getgo. Meaning: Leveling is more challenging, dungeons are harder than normal mode, raids harder than LFR. Modern WoW, on the other hand, has difficulty options that are vastly more challenging and complex, between Normal/Heroic/Mythic raids, Mythic and Mythic+ dungeons and rated pvp.

Anyone who claims LFR is harder than Classic raids is either being disingenuous or ignoring that 1) Classic is only on the very first few raids so far, and 2) LFR has a mechanic that literally makes the fight easier with every wipe. Even if you could argue some LFR fights are harsher and some mechanics actually matter, the fact is if you wipe enough times your group will be so buffed it will eventually be nearly impossible to wipe, which as far as I'm concerned makes any LFR instance easier than anything in Classic.

With that said yea, even Normal raids are harder than Classic raids (at least so far). But all in all it's overall a different style of playing than just plain "difficulty".

[Mirishka]

Leveling is a lot harder, endgame is a lot easier. That's what happens when you have an old game with more punishing mechanics vs. a 15 year old version of the same game that holds your hand but still also wants to be an esport that nobody watches.

tedious =/= harder

Killing 94 bears for 8 flanks isn't hard, its time consuming.

[enigma77]

A little yeah.

I'd like them to overtune raids like on private servers.

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tedious =/= harder

Killing 94 bears for 8 flanks isn't hard, its time consuming.

First of all your definition of hard is not the only one, when something takes more time and effort many people will call that hard.

Secondly, it's not just that it takes longer, in Classic if you pull too many mobs you will die. In fact you may die to a single one, if you're careless.

[Nobleshield]

It's "easy" but can still be challenging. My guild had no issue with Razorgore (barring our first pull when our MC person accidentally double clicked the orb or something and let go of him. Whoops!) or Vael (1:30 kill or thereabouts) or the Suppression Room/Broodlord, but we have issues on Firemaw right now with positioning. The issue is people who have been doing it for a long time show that it's simple, so everyone thinks it's simple.

A big issue with the mindset of today bleeding into the mindset of Vanilla is that now everyone compares themselves to everybody else. If Guild X clears it in an hour, or even in a day, then that becomes some sort of standard where if you can't do that you must suck. That's retail "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality where Blizzard pushed current tier or bust and didn't exist in Vanilla nearly as badly and shouldn't. People should be focused on them, their guild and that progress. That's what counts. You aren't in a race with anyone else over content that's 15 years old and has been solved for 13 years.

WoW was always considered the "noob" MMO even when it came out, that's why it enjoyed such phenomenal success compared to its predecessor as king EverQuest. Even EQ is less "hard" and more just incredibly time consuming.

[Tekkommo]

tedious =/= harder

Killing 94 bears for 8 flanks isn't hard, its time consuming.

In retail you mindlessly aoe mobs down.

In Classic, only one class can aoe level (maybe a Paladin can?), that's a Mage and you have to be careful in doing so. Not saying it's hard to do, but it's harder than retail.

[Mirishka]

Imho Classic is at its core harder than any of the default (easiest) settings in modern WoW, mostly because it relies much more on teamwork since your character is not a superhero from the getgo. Meaning: Leveling is more challenging, dungeons are harder than normal mode, raids harder than LFR. Modern WoW, on the other hand, has difficulty options that are vastly more challenging and complex, between Normal/Heroic/Mythic raids, Mythic and Mythic+ dungeons and rated pvp.

Anyone who claims LFR is harder than Classic raids is either being disingenuous or ignoring that 1) Classic is only on the very first few raids so far, and 2) LFR has a mechanic that literally makes the fight easier with every wipe. Even if you could argue some LFR fights are harsher and some mechanics actually matter, the fact is if you wipe enough times your group will be so buffed it will eventually be nearly impossible to wipe, which as far as I'm concerned makes any LFR instance easier than anything in Classic.

With that said yea, even Normal raids are harder than Classic raids (at least so far). But all in all it's overall a different style of playing than just plain "difficulty".

Wiping so many times on a fight like Wrathion (using that example since he has a distinct 'KILL YOU' mechanic) that you eventually have high stacks of determination doesn't mean LFR is easier - it means Blizz knows how terrible random groups can be when there are mechanics that have to be managed correctly.

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In retail you mindlessly aoe mobs down.

In Classic, only one class can aoe level (maybe a Paladin can?), that's a Mage and you have to be careful in doing so. Not saying it's hard to do, but it's harder than retail.

That's called shitty class balance, not difficulty.

[Coldfrostzero]

Imagine putting all this time and effort into gearing up and consumables when you don't even need it with these easy raids.

15 years ago was a different time, i'll never understand classic players now.

My guild fell apart over a guy using the N-word in guild chat and derogatory slurs for gay people because he was mad at an AV he lost. After the mass amount of players left and formed their own guild, ours never recovered even after we kicked the guy. So we joined with another "better guild."

The guild was advertising in trade that they were "looking for 90th percentile players." The first week of BWL was a mess, they have too many people even for a two team roster, one team being the "hardcore group" and the other team being the "casual group." Meaning the hardcore team is required to flask, elixir, juju, etc. I was the main tank for the former guild and couldn't get an invite because they were "full up" on tanks and they didn't want to bring someone geared as a tank for DPS the first week.

The best part is, the hardcore group barely downed Vael after about 4 hours the first night. So much for 90th percentile and needing all the consumables in the game. I did that shit back in Vanilla and I didn't even know about elixirs and world buffs.

[Hopsu]

Funny how delusional some people are about consumables in classic and how keeping up with farm is the difficult part in game. Players keep using word "need" all the time to make their point even when it's not true. You don't need consumables to clear the content. 15 years ago when players were so bad for example i was clicking stance dance and overpower while being top 3 in damagemeters. Still our guild managed to kill 2 bosses at Naxxramas without any consumable requirements.

Now guilds establishes themselves as "semi-hardcore" with insane requirements to save what 10-20 minutes time from 2 hours of game play. These guilds keep constantly recruiting and replacing people who quit because no one really cares about the top performance when it's not necessary to get the gear. There's always better players in this type of guilds that want to farm the consumables and do as high performance as possible for logs. Let them do it but don't start 2 year long recruitment cycle just because you "NEED" the consumables.

My friend just told me his guild had consumable list for first BWL raid that cost something like 600-800g.

I personally quit classic mentally after DM came out because of the restorative potion. "You need to have these potions so mages and druids save globals and do more damage on Lucifron or you are loot banned". The boss literally last less than 40 seconds... Just stop trying to make it hard and challenging with casual speed gaming etc. and keep people playing the game for loot. There's no challenge in the game and you shouldn't try to force it.

[Tekkommo]

That's called shitty class balance, not difficulty.

I just gave you an example of why leveling is harder. Retail is complete faceroll.