Is Classic too easy?

[Kolvarg]

Wiping so many times on a fight like Wrathion (using that example since he has a distinct 'KILL YOU' mechanic) that you eventually have high stacks of determination doesn't mean LFR is easier - it means Blizz knows how terrible random groups can be when there are mechanics that have to be managed correctly.

I mean, regardless of the reason why it was implemented, the fact is the fights do get easier the more you wipe. Meanwhile in Classic if anything it's quite harsh to wipe, as you need to ghost run all the way back, trash mobs start respawning, world buffs and consumables start running out (if you even have them, which is definitely something you don't need on LFR), etc.

The LFR fights where one or two mechanics actually matter are far and few between, and more often than not they can be handled by a very small number of people. I don't think the fact that you might be able to pick and choose a couple of LFR fights that can't be as easily cheesed proves that LFR as a whole is harder than Classic raids, considering the majority of its fights either are tank-and-spank from the getgo or easily become so with enough wipes.

[Mirishka]

A little yeah.

I'd like them to overtune raids like on private servers.

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First of all your definition of hard is not the only one, when something takes more time and effort many people will call that hard.

Secondly, it's not just that it takes longer, in Classic if you pull too many mobs you will die. In fact you may die to a single one, if you're careless.

There's plenty of single mobs that can kill a standard-geared toon in retail. Mechagon, Nazjatar and the new assaults are full of them. Hell there's the occasional quest mob that can wreck non-tanks, like Rindlewoe.

And why should they overtune raids? To satisfy the 17 or so people bitching about how easy MC/BWL were cleared? "Great idea team, lets punish everyone with even more tedious versions of 15 year old raids because people know what to do."

No, just... no.

[Monster Hunter]

So you don't wanna play classic, by your own words you can't really say that you acutally play it and still you come into this thread saying this game is easy. Just wow.

I have a level 60 paladin that just did BWL. Just because I was afk the while raid still means I've more right than most who post in classic.

Let's face it if most of the classic haters left, this section of the forum would get reduced to just a mega thread due to lack of activity.

[Mirishka]

I mean, regardless of the reason why it was implemented, the fact is the fights do get easier the more you wipe. Meanwhile in Classic if anything the fights can get harder the more you wipe, as you need to ghost run all the way back, and trash mobs start respawning, world buffs and consumables start running out (if you even have them, which is definitely something you don't need on LFR), etc.

The LFR fights where one or two mechanics actually matter are far and few between, and more often than not they can be handled by a very small number of people. I don't think the fact that you might be able to pick and choose a couple of LFR fights that can't be as easily cheesed proves that LFR as a whole is harder than Classic raids, considering the majority of its fights either are tank-and-spank from the getgo or easily become so with enough wipes.

By that logic it could be argued that LFR gets 'harder' because people get frustrated over wipes and bail, causing waits and delays and testing the patience of all involved.

And I'm sorry but I just don't agree that 'wiping 10x to get determination' = easier than raids people did 15 years ago. The fact that there are some fights where people are even wiping enough to reach high stacks, is contrary to 'easier'.

Its funny to me that people have romanticized this idea that Classic/vanilla was a hardcore Dark Souls-style era in WoW's history - it has never been an overtly difficult MMO. Only through the addition of things like Challenge modes, the mage tower, Mythic+ and assorted raid difficulties, etc have we really seen an era of 'holy shit, this is stressful AF' content for the game.

But vanilla WoW? Vanilla WoW was the cushy, friendly, gentle MMO for people who didn't want to suffer through the laundry list of penalties you'd incur in a game like EQ for basically any mistake/death.

[Blandalf]

Classic is certainly easier than I thought it was going to be, the hardest challenge so far is getting 40 decent players online and motivated.

I'm still enjoying it far more than retail though and I'm basically putting my time in for when TBC releases.

[justandulas]

Maybe you could argue classic is too easy, but retail is too seasonal and pointless

[Echocho]

I personally quit classic mentally after DM came out because of the restorative potion. "You need to have these potions so mages and druids save globals and do more damage on Lucifron or you are loot banned". The boss literally last less than 40 seconds... Just stop trying to make it hard and challenging with casual speed gaming etc. and keep people playing the game for loot. There's no challenge in the game and you shouldn't try to force it.

Restorative potions were put into the game to help guilds that didn't have a lot of mages or druids. To force people to use them even though you have plenty of decursers is insanity. Like you said the game is extremely easy bordering on trivial. If anything you should run without any consumables or anything like that to at least make it a little bit better.

[Kolvarg]

By that logic it could be argued that LFR gets 'harder' because people get frustrated over wipes and bail, causing waits and delays and testing the patience of all involved.

And I'm sorry but I just don't agree that 'wiping 10x to get determination' = easier than raids people did 15 years ago. The fact that there are some fights where people are even wiping enough to reach high stacks, is contrary to 'easier'.

By that logic Classic is infinitely harder since if people bail mid-raid it's much much harder to refill their spot because of the lock system. Not to mention there's no automated queueing system and you need to "manually" find and invite people.

I think it's quite biased that you look at Classic raids difficulty in the context that they are 15 years old (meaning that you consider them easier because they've been out for so long and so many people have already completed them), whereas when looking at LFR you seem to want to ignore the context of how it works and just want to look at "objective" difficulty - if there is such a thing.

[Mirishka]

By that logic Classic is infinitely harder since if people bail mid-raid it's much much harder to refill their spot because of the lock system. Not to mention there's no automated queueing system and you need to "manually" find and invite people.

I think it's quite biased that you look at Classic raids difficulty in the context that they are 15 years old (meaning that you consider them easier because they've been out for so long and so many people have already completed them), whereas when looking at LFR you seem to want to ignore the context of how it works and just want to look at "objective" difficulty - if there is such a thing.

What's easier to speak: a language you've been practicing for 15 years, or a language you just picked up a couple of weeks ago. It isn't a slight or an insult to say 'Classic raids are 15 years old and people already know what to do', its the truth.

Why on earth do people like you take that so personally? You're expending more effort to defend the old raids than Blizz themselves would.

I mean, if you get your kicks pretending that vanilla was some elite hardcore experience, more power to you I guess - but yeah, no, it really wasn't. I could refer you to a couple of other, older-than-WoW MMOs if you'd like to see what an actual hardcore game in the genre is like.

[Bane-Thunder-God]

Remember when you were in Kindergarten learning math for the first time? Your classmates and yourself had no real clue what was going on, but collectively you figured it out with the help of your teachers, then you ran home with excitement showing your parents how good you are at adding 1+1.

Imagine going back to Kindergarten 15 years later expecting to be excited about learning how to add again.

Hahahahaha severely underrated post. +1

[Mirishka]

Hahahahaha severely underrated post. +1

Indeed it is.

[markos82]

There's plenty of single mobs that can kill a standard-geared toon in retail. Mechagon, Nazjatar and the new assaults are full of them. Hell there's the occasional quest mob that can wreck non-tanks, like Rindlewoe.

And why should they overtune raids? To satisfy the 17 or so people bitching about how easy MC/BWL were cleared? "Great idea team, lets punish everyone with even more tedious versions of 15 year old raids because people know what to do."

No, just... no.

Yeah because you are doing content that was added later to the game, not something that was there from start!! That not hard to understand. Freshly dinged lvl120 will have no issues in doing content that was released with launch of the game, those are quests, mobs, elite mobs and so on.....

No because i don't see a point where you kill a mob with a friend or other and you all get eyes froma mob that has two eye. 8 hand from a mob that has 2 hand and so on.
As a balance druid i can pull 10-15mobs, mass root them and pop azerite shit, nuke 90% of them and finish rest easy. Brilliant and engaging game design

[krouger]

classic is really easy, players have far more knowledge of their class/specc/mechanics etc. only chellenge might be Naxxramas but i still love it everytime its wednesday i am looking forward for MC/ony with my guild and i havent felt this way for raiding in retail in years, so easy or whatever i enjoy it

[Castration]

why do these threads keep coming up? Did they think content that people know everything about will be hard with todays addons and technology?

[Tekkommo]

why do these threads keep coming up? Did they think content that people know everything about will be hard with todays addons and technology?

Retailers are mad people are enjoying Classic.

[vitor210]

Classic has extremely little content if you're not a raider or a serious PvP:er, however I'm beginning to feel that the content it does have is way too easy. Raids are cleared the first reset by most guilds and then you're back to raid logging for farm raids that are almost as easy as LFR is in retail.
It doesn't give you a sense of accomplishment and the character progression is extremely slow, with new gear upgrades coming at you about once a month.
It's starting to feel like, what's the point if there's no challenge?

seeing how leveling takes AT LEAST more or less a month for 90% of the playerbase, I say that's enough content without the need to touch on pvp and instancing

[Caprias]

My guild fell apart over a guy using the N-word in guild chat and derogatory slurs for gay people because he was mad at an AV he lost. After the mass amount of players left and formed their own guild, ours never recovered even after we kicked the guy. So we joined with another "better guild."

I don't support that but my first reaction would be a big LOL for boldness.
How does that kill a guild XD

[ellieg]

Retailers are mad people are enjoying Classic.

NOOOOOOOO!!! But you're supposed to like retail! It requires more APM and has harder mechanics and theres more difficulties and a wider range of content!!! The graphics are better and it has transmog! What do you mean you like classic better!?

[Grimbolt]

I find the leveling experience a lot better than live. Once you hit 60 though the gameplay and what you can do is extremely limited and just not worth the effort. I have personally just kept leveling alts and only need 2 more classes to hit 60.

Not sure what to do after that though. Maybe unlock vulpera on line for shadowlands and hope its a good expansion.

[Coldfrostzero]

I don't support that but my first reaction would be a big LOL for boldness.
How does that kill a guild XD

Because people were appalled (and rightfully so) that the guy wasn't removed after a bunch of people told the GM that they would leave. After ~30 people left, we went from downing MC in ~1-2 hours tops to taking 3+ hours with multiple wipes. Nearly all of our best players left and since most people are in established guilds, it is extremely hard to recruit. Classic is basically waiting for a guild to fall apart so you can pick up their roster for your guild's roster.