It doesnt matter how good you are anymore

[odamienskii]

He's saying being better or putting more effort into the game isn't rewarding. Having amazing luck is.

precisely!

[Seranthor]

It really doesnt matter how good you are anymore, if your unlucky your shit, if your lucky your op.

2300 rio ppl dieing to season 1 mechanics in 17s/18s because there corruption carried them through 16s.
while there are good people who are struggling to do the 16s because they dont have the overpowered corruption to carry them through.
good players with overpowered corruption are already miiiiles ahead in rio.
played with a 2500 rio rdruid yday....top of fail meter.....rank 5 stars.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

corruption is far worse than legion legos because there is no blp.

the only good corruption i have is the corruption i bought, spending over 1.5million because i KNEW rng would shaft me (which it has)

my chests have contained
bm Hunter:
haste versa ring with versa on taking damage chance.....lol
crit/mastery wep with chance on versa when taking damage....lol

Druid:
void ritual....lol
avoidance.....lol (though i think this will be useful high tyanical unfortunately nobody has the brains for this yet)

Sort it out blizzard for fuck sake.

What exactly are you demanding they 'sort out'?

[odamienskii]

Love it.

Now I just need to get Infinite Stars on my DH instead of on my alts.

as bitter as i am about my luck this is hilarious, and to think the people with this gear will say they are skilled....while standing in barrel smash on 2nd boss fh to do extra dips.

[Raelbo]

In current retail, and why a lot of people have quit, is I could do a Mythic raid up and down and get bad RNG and get +5 item level once in a while. Meanwhile, someone who is doing LFR can have an item proc all the way up to max item level. Sure, on average my item level is going to be higher, but someone with astronomically uncommon luck is going to have comparable gear doing next to none of the same difficult content.

That's patently nonsense. No amount of "astronomically uncommon luck" is going to see an LFR raider geared anywhere near any mythic raider. It was always incredibly rare to see someone with even a single LFR item forging up to mythic level, let alone multiple pieces.

Just because something is theoretically possible doesn't mean there is a realistic probability of it happening. In this case, certainly not nearly enough probability that it's worth spending even a second of you life worrying about it. Getting eaten alive by a shark carried by a tornado into your home, for example, has a much greater probability of coming to pass than is anyone in WoW ever getting a full set of LFR gear forged to mythic levels.

The funny thing is that with corruption it is now probably possible for a lucky LFR raider with the right corruptions to beat a regular mythic raider. It's funny because you guys demanded that Blizzard get rid of that TF "cancer".

[justandulas]

That's patently nonsense. No amount of "astronomically uncommon luck" is going to see an LFR raider geared anywhere near any mythic raider. It was always incredibly rare to see someone with even a single LFR item forging up to mythic level, let alone multiple pieces.

Just because something is theoretically possible doesn't mean there is a realistic probability of it happening. In this case, certainly not nearly enough probability that it's worth spending even a second of you life worrying about it. Getting eaten alive by a shark carried by a tornado into your home, for example, has a much greater probability of coming to pass than is anyone in WoW ever getting a full set of LFR gear forged to mythic levels.

The funny thing is that with corruption it is now probably possible for a lucky LFR raider with the right corruptions to beat a regular mythic raider. It's funny because you guys demanded that Blizzard get rid of that TF "cancer".

He isn’t wrong, you are. It is VERY common in this new seasonal approach to wow, for solo and m+ players to be equally as geared as full time mythic raiders by the end of the patch. It’s designed to let everyone equalize in the end if they put in the time.

There’s no mythic only bosses with exclusive gear that would actually make players stand out

Everyone is wearing different variations of the same gear and that’s beyond boring

[Raelbo]

He isn’t wrong, you are. It is VERY common in this new seasonal approach to wow, for solo and m+ players to be equally as geared as full time mythic raiders by the end of the patch. It’s designed to let everyone equalize in the end if they put in the time.

He was talking about LFR items proccing. I was talking about LFR procs. Neither of us made any reference to M+.

So I remain correct. He remains wrong. And you're barking up the wrong tree.

There’s no mythic only bosses with exclusive gear that would actually make players stand out

Everyone is wearing different variations of the same gear and that’s beyond boring

Stand out how exactly?

While there may be different paths to getting to top end gear (and the corresponding performance), that doesn't mean that everyone suddenly has the same level of gear. Mythic raiders and top M+ players are still going to be miles ahead of the masses. That's a pretty small and exclusive group consisting of maybe 2-3% of players.

Just as reference, I raid heroic on my main. When it comes to open world grouping for stuff like world bosses (and other WQs), LFR, IE, warfronts, mythic dungeon pugs, etc, my dps output is generally pretty good relative to the group. But every now and then there is a player who utterly destroys me on the meters. That's the mythic raider, and really, it's no contest between those (rare) players and the rabble....

[HCLM]

as bitter as i am about my luck this is hilarious, and to think the people with this gear will say they are skilled....while standing in barrel smash on 2nd boss fh to do extra dips.

You have to stop blaming your lack of skill on the gear drop. I am running M+ only with Twisted Appendage (which daels like 5% of my overall dmg), and I don't struggle with overall dps or timing keys... If anything, it is low IO people who thinks they're better than 2k+ guys, and do dumb random moves, fails the keys most of the time.

Btw. how you can get total of 4 corruptions in 3 weeks. When you have 100% to get corruption items from weekly pvp and pve chests.

[Stormwolf64]

So what you're trying to say is, because other people have good/bad RNG with corruption, I am no longer a good player?



What?

You're not slow enough in the head to not understand the point he's making are you?

[Daedius]

So what you're trying to say is, because other people have good/bad RNG with corruption, I am no longer a good player?



What?

Yes. You suck. L2RNG!!! Nooooooob!

[natpick]

It really doesnt matter how good you are anymore, if your unlucky your shit, if your lucky your op.

2300 rio ppl dieing to season 1 mechanics in 17s/18s because there corruption carried them through 16s.
while there are good people who are struggling to do the 16s because they dont have the overpowered corruption to carry them through.
good players with overpowered corruption are already miiiiles ahead in rio.
played with a 2500 rio rdruid yday....top of fail meter.....rank 5 stars.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

corruption is far worse than legion legos because there is no blp.

the only good corruption i have is the corruption i bought, spending over 1.5million because i KNEW rng would shaft me (which it has)

my chests have contained
bm Hunter:
haste versa ring with versa on taking damage chance.....lol
crit/mastery wep with chance on versa when taking damage....lol

Druid:
void ritual....lol
avoidance.....lol (though i think this will be useful high tyanical unfortunately nobody has the brains for this yet)

Sort it out blizzard for fuck sake.

are you forgetting to enjoy the game by any chance?just a quick reminder that it is actualy a game and not life or death.

[Coldfrostzero]

That's patently nonsense. No amount of "astronomically uncommon luck" is going to see an LFR raider geared anywhere near any mythic raider. It was always incredibly rare to see someone with even a single LFR item forging up to mythic level, let alone multiple pieces.

Just because something is theoretically possible doesn't mean there is a realistic probability of it happening. In this case, certainly not nearly enough probability that it's worth spending even a second of you life worrying about it. Getting eaten alive by a shark carried by a tornado into your home, for example, has a much greater probability of coming to pass than is anyone in WoW ever getting a full set of LFR gear forged to mythic levels.

The funny thing is that with corruption it is now probably possible for a lucky LFR raider with the right corruptions to beat a regular mythic raider. It's funny because you guys demanded that Blizzard get rid of that TF "cancer".

I didn't say they were going to have a full set of LFR gear that is Mythic level. I said they can have comparable gear. If you get a 415 item without a socket and a 405 item with a socket, the socket is better even though the Mythic item is better (BoD'A was the last patch I played so I have no idea how out of control item levels are now). If an normal raider has their 385 base item drop at 395 with a socket, it's as good as the 405 item would be without the socket. Gear is so fucking out of control it's disgusting.

I also was talking about over the course of an entire raid btw. You see 2-3 other people getting comparable items to what you're wearing doing the lower effort stuff. Hell, clearing +10 Mythic dungeon for a base Mythic raid item level drop is ridiculous. A whole +10 Mythic dungeon isn't even close to how hard a Mythic raid boss is.

I'm not demanding anything. I don't play retail anymore. Classic suits my life a lot better. Log in, kill a boss, item I want drops, I get it or I don't, log off and be done for the week unless I want to play more. No grinding out artifact power for days on end to keep up and no getting frustrated when my item drops but it didn't proc to the right item level or have a socket so it's not good. The only thing is loot drama, which with the game being finite, it's only a matter of time before it drops again. So not even a big deal since it can't randomly get better.

[kaintk]

Honestly raiding is kind of a dead scene for more and more people these days. Yeah, groups exist out there but their numbers are dwindling. As we move forward in time, the internet grows increasingly more toxic and people in their right minds* remove themselves from this toxicity. Leading to a new focus on smaller group content such as M+, where it’s more likely that a group of 5 friends will form, opposed to a group of 10-30/20 friends forming for a raid.

*Not that you’re wrong for liking to do large group content, but people who know what they do/don’t want and making their decision based on that to better their daily life.

There isn’t a game out there that doesn’t suffer from a troll problem. It’s rampant.

to be fair , just doing lfr is fine, it dont take you all the week to do it, you see the contents, going for hm/mythic is just to be able to loot thing that will give you biggger number, at the end, so what ? nothing will be gain to have those big number, its not like there is a secret raid that requiere you to have big number

[scelero]

being able to pick between a good player with decent gear and bad player with higher ilvl has always been a problem in the PUGworld.

It just is what it is. The gearscore=ability has been a topic of debate as well.

It never matter how good you were in PUGS. It was a matter, can you finish the dungeon before everyone gives up.

I can overlook you missing a mechanic that was from s1, especially if you're lucky enough to never get targeted with said mechanic (which happens often).

That said, PUGgers know what it feels like when you got a badass party and you ride that train as long as you can before someone leaves.

It's part of the game. Always has been. Corruption gear didn't all of sudden, create this problem.

[Alanar]

It really doesnt matter how good you are anymore, if your unlucky your shit, if your lucky your op.

2300 rio ppl dieing to season 1 mechanics in 17s/18s because there corruption carried them through 16s.
while there are good people who are struggling to do the 16s because they dont have the overpowered corruption to carry them through.
good players with overpowered corruption are already miiiiles ahead in rio.
played with a 2500 rio rdruid yday....top of fail meter.....rank 5 stars.....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

corruption is far worse than legion legos because there is no blp.

the only good corruption i have is the corruption i bought, spending over 1.5million because i KNEW rng would shaft me (which it has)

my chests have contained
bm Hunter:
haste versa ring with versa on taking damage chance.....lol
crit/mastery wep with chance on versa when taking damage....lol

Druid:
void ritual....lol
avoidance.....lol (though i think this will be useful high tyanical unfortunately nobody has the brains for this yet)

Sort it out blizzard for fuck sake.

Roll a dh = win
Nothing else matters.

[Raelbo]

I didn't say they were going to have a full set of LFR gear that is Mythic level. I said they can have comparable gear.

As I said, "No amount of "astronomically uncommon luck" is going to see an LFR raider geared anywhere near any mythic raider". No the gear you can realistically get from LFR isn't comparable at all.

If you get a 415 item without a socket and a 405 item with a socket, the socket is better even though the Mythic item is better (BoD'A was the last patch I played so I have no idea how out of control item levels are now). If an normal raider has their 385 base item drop at 395 with a socket, it's as good as the 405 item would be without the socket. Gear is so fucking out of control it's disgusting.

Mythic gear is 45 ilevels above LFR gear. Forging 9 times (or 7 times with a socket) to make it comparable to mythic gear is incredibly rare.

Gear is not out of control, because your concept of what actually happens in practice is massively out of sync with reality.

I also was talking about over the course of an entire raid btw. You see 2-3 other people getting comparable items to what you're wearing doing the lower effort stuff.

If you do every wing of LFR over the entire course of a raid and see 2-3 "comparable to mythic" gear drops, it pretty much proves my point. Across a group of mythic of raiders over the entire course of a raid (let's say 20 weeks, 10 bosses), you're going to see around 10 000 gear drops. That is not comparable by any means.

Hell, clearing +10 Mythic dungeon for a base Mythic raid item level drop is ridiculous. A whole +10 Mythic dungeon isn't even close to how hard a Mythic raid boss is.

Firstly, you're exaggerating the ease with which top end Mythic dungeons are cleared. Generally speaking, the people who get top gear from Mythic+ are the same people clearing mythic raids. Furthermore, M+ drops 1 guaranteed good item a week which cannot be traded or use a coin roll. So Mythic raiders are going be getting more gear quicker.

The one thing where M+ has always had an edge is that you had a realistic chance (not a great chance though) of getting a strong enough TF proc to make a mythic raid comparable item for every dungeon you complete. What this means is that if a player was willing to run hundreds of high end M+ every week, yes they were going to have Mythic raid gear. Now maybe you think that's trivial. In truth though it's a significant effort barrier, so the reward is probably warranted.

I'm not demanding anything. I don't play retail anymore. Classic suits my life a lot better. Log in, kill a boss, item I want drops, I get it or I don't, log off and be done for the week unless I want to play more. No grinding out artifact power for days on end to keep up and no getting frustrated when my item drops but it didn't proc to the right item level or have a socket so it's not good. The only thing is loot drama, which with the game being finite, it's only a matter of time before it drops again. So not even a big deal since it can't randomly get better.

No offense, but it really sounds as though your struggles in retail emanated from the fact that you had no ability to regulate your play, combined with a poor grasp of how probabilities translated into the real world. Which resulted in you expending massive amounts of effort into unnecessary grinds borne of a desire to keep up with a massively distorted perception of how well geared everyone else was.

I am glad to hear that your Classic experience is working out for you though

[Mirishka]

The difference is, if it dropped in MC, BWL, Naxx, whatever prior to Throne of Thunder, it was always the item. It never had a chance to suddenly be as good or better than the the hardest difficulty's base item level. If you do LFR and you Titanforge to max item level while someone has the same exact item drops in Mythic and it doesn't Titanforge, you got rewarded for essentially AFKing over someone who has to play next to perfect to get a worse item.

You're talking about a completely different system, that while it was active, had unlimited tries. I also got all 34 mage tower appearances. I was also a Mythic raider at one point. One of the reason I quit was because it felt stupid to be doing Mythic every week and then I go into a PUG heroic group or normal group and watch some guy who barely showed up on the meter get an item better than my Mythic item. In Legion, I had to completely switch my main because I was raiding Mythic EN and my alt shadow priest had the BIS belt drop while my paladin had the shitty interrupt ring drop (well before they buffed into being actually usable). The RNG loot system with additional RNG that now has even MORE RNG put on top of it makes it extremely disappointing when you get screwed over constantly.

If they want to fix the system, make it so it can't roll higher than the next difficulty's base level until they've cleared that boss on the next difficulty.

Not sure why you spun this into a TFing debate when they've already said that WoW would be 'without TF/WF' moving forward. Corruption was the first attempt at an alternate system and even that isn't going to appear beyond this patch.

So yeah, they already fixed that problem. No idea what (if anything) they're replacing it with in SL, but they've directly said that TF/WF is not coming back.

[RoKPaNda]

Its about REWARDING not they suddenly have more SKILL. Big difference here buddy. Read what I said again.

In current retail, and why a lot of people have quit, is I could do a Mythic raid up and down and get bad RNG and get +5 item level once in a while. Meanwhile, someone who is doing LFR can have an item proc all the way up to max item level. Sure, on average my item level is going to be higher, but someone with astronomically uncommon luck is going to have comparable gear doing next to none of the same difficult content.

This has literally never happened. Anyone that quit over Titanforging was just exceptionally horrible at math. Confirmed at the end of Legion a person raiding Normal could expect one item of Mythic base level or better per tier, LFR obviously less so, Heroic slightly more so. At no point were casuals outgearing you if you're raiding Mythic. My gear is and always has been far and away better than anything casuals have, and the TF lottery never changed that. People need to stop being so sensitive about the extremely unlikely chance that a casual pleb is going to have a singular item on par with one of our items. The reward system was fine, if you do higher content you get better gear. Corruption is shit, but thankfully that's an 8.3 only thing.

[melodramocracy]

I'm reading this as "it's getting difficult for me to be exclusionary in my group making efforts".

[owbu]

I feel like you have been warned sufficiently when Azerite gear released in the state it was in. If you are still here, that's kind of your own fault

[odamienskii]

You have to stop blaming your lack of skill on the gear drop. I am running M+ only with Twisted Appendage (which daels like 5% of my overall dmg), and I don't struggle with overall dps or timing keys... If anything, it is low IO people who thinks they're better than 2k+ guys, and do dumb random moves, fails the keys most of the time.

Btw. how you can get total of 4 corruptions in 3 weeks. When you have 100% to get corruption items from weekly pvp and pve chests.

dude....2k+ guys? as if 2k+ is difficult? im timing 17s with no issue and healing 18s with no issue its the dps that are having trouble because there op gear isnt carrying them through the mechanics.

15s in time is 2k, 16s is 2.2k 17s 2.4k etc or something there or there abouts, 15 is not difficult AT ALL

the problem is terrible terrible players with gear boosts are getting into 17s because there gear has carried them through 15s/16s, skillwise they are nowhere near good enough for 17s/18s, they are failing on s1 mechanics