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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Thats wrath. Look at the survival instincts ability.
    Use the one in my above reply then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    Private server where he 1v3s green mobs to prove "aoe" levelling in classic wow?
    Pservers that are tuned higher than classic.

  2. #202
    Elemental Lord Tekkommo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Use this one then
    Woah he took on 3 green mobs. That's some great AOE levelling right there. What a shit way to level, you want to be killing mobs your level, not 5+ levels lower.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Yes. The first few levels of every expansion
    First few quests, not levels.

    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    You can Aoe level any twink to get it to the next bracket when you want to change as you over power the content.
    No you can't.
    Last edited by Tekkommo; 2020-02-14 at 04:07 PM.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    Ahhh... no.

    Vanilla WoW was always the casual easy-going MMO compared to those that came before it, and that is exactly why it blew up in popularity the way it did. There's a reason that Wrath (the most casual-friendly the game has ever been) had the biggest player base that the game has ever seen (12+ million people).

    It was never some hardcore, difficult thing... and anyone who says otherwise is full of shit.

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    Exactly. So many people omit this fact.
    Actually he is right, while there were people trying to yell over the noise of hype to inform that it is indeed easier than Retail, the louder voices were saying how hardcore and difficult it was compared to Care bear Retail. It is easy to understand people mistaking this and thinking Classic was actually going to be more difficult than retail.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    Woah he took on 3 green mobs. That's some great AOE levelling right there. What a shit way to level, you want to be killing mobs your level, not 5+ levels lower.

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    First few quests, not levels.



    No you can't.
    Yes you can.

    And so what. You can still Aoe level, just cos you need to as I said over gear the mobs your grinding dosnt mean he's not Aoe leveling.

    Get better, find weaker mobs.

    50 to 60 pulling silithid is a fairly decent way. Had a hunter farm me up to 60 that way whilst I watched supernatural.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keyboardshinobi View Post
    Actually he is right, while there were people trying to yell over the noise of hype to inform that it is indeed easier than Retail, the louder voices were saying how hardcore and difficult it was compared to Care bear Retail. It is easy to understand people mistaking this and thinking Classic was actually going to be more difficult than retail.
    Partly the fault of people like me who have been living of there raiding exp in vanilla, tbc and wrath for a decade now as our "hard core" credentials.

    The DK char in nixxiom's machinimas that goes on and on about how hard core vanilla was, that was me for years.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by markos82 View Post
    And average guild can clear normal and most of hc raid.
    Not a chance in hell. An average guild in retail can maybe clear normal in the first reset. Heroic will require weeks. Believe me I've been in plenty of guilds like that. My guild in Classic is way worse than that and we still cleared BWL on our first raid night.

    It's just way too easy

  6. #206
    The Lightbringer Adramalech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I'm just glad this bullshit meme pushed for years about how Vanilla was a pinnacle of skill and shit died in fire.
    This is probably the only good reason for why Classic ended up being a good idea. Dispelling all the falsehoods pushed on forums over the years, telling a story of a Classic (or Vanilla, whatever you prefer to call it, I personally always called the original WoW by "Classic" long before Classic even became an idea) that simply never existed. The stories of harsh leveling, punishing dungeons, hardcore raids... all of it false, something that only felt true at the time because of a lack of knowledge and experience with the game. It does bring me a certain level of satisfaction to see it all come crashing down, despite how childish it is to feel this way.

    I'm sure people will keep on moving the goal posts every time. We've all seen the same excuses in every thread related to Classic difficulty. Oh, it's because we have 1.12 balancing and items! Oh, no one ever said MC/BWL was hard (many people did, for many years), and if they did, they weren't serious! AQ40 for sure will take longer and cockblock hundreds upon hundreds of guilds (I'm sure AQ will take fairly longer though, since you have to play walking simulator inside in addition to playing the raid itself). No no wait, not AQ, but Naxx, Naxx for SURE will be a wall for people, it's SOOOO hard, there's no way it will get demolished as easily as the rest!

    ... and so on. I'm being kind of childish and honestly a bit of an asshole by feeling good about this entire thing when it comes to a game. But forgive me if I feel good about being vindicated after years of having to hear the tune of Classic WoW being this amazing experience that only a select few could endure if it came out today.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tya View Post
    As a warlock, allow me to be the first to say that I get tremendous amounts of joy from watching fear pathing take you to Africa.
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    Twinking is like going back to school when you are 30, just to be smarter than the other kids.

  7. #207
    The Unstoppable Force Ielenia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolvarg View Post
    So requiring fast reactions is the only measure of difficulty? So playing chess without a timer regardless of opponent is easy, since you can take as much time as you want?
    Thank you for showing how you're willing to ignore what people write just so you have something to argue. I listed three things (quick reactions, near-perfect positioning, and ideal tactics) but you ignored the last two and focused solely on the first one.
    "Torturing someone is not an evil thing to do if it is done for good reasons" by Varodoc
    "You sit in OG/SW waiting on a Mythic+ queue" by Altmer <- Oh, the pearls in this forum...
    "They sort of did this Dragonriding, which ushered in the Dracthyr race." by Teriz <- the BS some people reach for their narratives...

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    The 10 year anniversary of WoW, with LFR Molten Core, was the thing of absolute nightmares for collectors... and is a testament showcasing how stupid people in LFR are.
    It was mostly a lack of leadership. Anything can turn into a huge mess when everyone's running around with no direction. After the first wipe, since no one was stepping up, I started leading the raid, telling them what to do (since I imagine most of those players hadn't played vanilla) and we cleared it super easily. I didn't even give super involved directions, just "keep the dogs apart" or "move away from everyone if you're the bomb". It also helped that the kit for most classes was pretty absurd compared to vanilla. One could afford to tank through or ignore a lot of mechanics. There was, of course, the odd idiot that did some random shit and died, but that was on them, and didn't cause a wipe.
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    Also, it's should HAVE. NOT "should of". "Should of" doesn't even make sense. If you think you should own a cat, do you say "I should of a cat" or "I should have a cat"? Do you HAVE cats, or do you OF cats?

  9. #209
    The Lightbringer msdos's Avatar
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    It's not hard, but for some reason only one other person besides me in my retail guild managed to hit 60 and clear MC and the whole guild was playing classic at one point.

    But yeah, it's not "hard", but I expect people to mental gymnastic every other thing in there, "it's time consuming, it's too boring, wahhhh too simple, wahhhh, i never actually played other MMMs or hard RPGs, but this is a 15 year old game therefore i shouldn't experience it!" Just all kinds of off the wall excuses. But they have no problem running the same dungeon in retail 1,000 times for gear that will be replaced the very next patch lmaoo!!!!!!!

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Thank you for showing how you're willing to ignore what people write just so you have something to argue. I listed three things (quick reactions, near-perfect positioning, and ideal tactics) but you ignored the last two and focused solely on the first one.
    My bad. And yet, meanwhile there you are only replying to a single phrase, ignoring everything else I've brought up.

    Even including those three things, why are those three arbitrary measures the only ones we should use for difficulty? How fast do necessary reactions need to be to be considered "hard"? How small must the positioning mistake margin be? How complex do the tactics need to be for you to consider them hard?

    Also, where exactly does WoW require those three things, on its base difficulties? (Leveling, World quests, Normal dungeons, LFR)
    Last edited by Kolvarg; 2020-02-14 at 06:00 PM.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by OriginalName View Post
    Your fault for listening to people like asmongold who had a vested monetary interest in hyping classic up.

    There were no shortage of honest people, who actually played private servers who could tell you all about it.

    Besides, Classic in general isnt easier or harder than retail, the real distinction of difficulty comes from that while retail has a hardmode, classic doesnt and you get to choose how hard you want your contwnt to be.

    That is to say 99% of the content in both games are quite comparable, if you know what you are doing and have been playing for a while.

    Another quite big difference is that retail demands a lot of small doses of interactivity and time from the player, while classic demands a high level of activity as a pay in to play the game (continuous power level like azerite vs leveling 1-60) as such, with classic once you are ""done"" for the week you can log out without falling behind in power relatively to others, while in retail you have to keep logging in.
    M8 there were threads all over the forums here and on Reddit and other sites bitching about how WoW is too casual now and Vanilla was so much harder and took so much more skill constantly. It had nothing to do with Asmongold, cant speak for OP but I personally have never watched an Asmongold video. I have had plenty of Vanilla elitists tell me how bad I am for playing retail tho

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    Is 320 gear you get from the boost? I did that easily for a fresh alt near the start of BFA. Aoe'd just fine and you replace it all stupidly fast, what a pathetic response.

    We're talking about leveling characters, only Mages can aoe level, and maybe Paladins, unsure on that one. Anyone else will die. Even in BIS, not all classes can aoe grind either, unless you are farming mobs way below your level.

    The sole reason Mages can aoe grind, is because we do not get hit by the enemy.
    go with your 320 ilvl to uldum or vale invasion and try to aoe down a whole room of mobs, record it and upload it to youtube, thanks

  13. #213
    Yes. It's based on content that's been known for 15 years and it put in a patch after every class (except Shaman) were given some serious lookins and brought up to a standard. People have also had months to farm BiS gear which, from the previous tier, will always be sueprior to standard gear from the current tier.
    RETH

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by SinAscendant View Post
    M8 there were threads all over the forums here and on Reddit and other sites bitching about how WoW is too casual now and Vanilla was so much harder and took so much more skill constantly. It had nothing to do with Asmongold, cant speak for OP but I personally have never watched an Asmongold video. I have had plenty of Vanilla elitists tell me how bad I am for playing retail tho
    Retail is casual, so is Classic.

    I came from other MMOs, namely Tibia and Ultima Online, compared to WoW these games were olympic sports, what i'm saying is, it's in WoW's essence to be classic, you can't separate them.
    Last edited by OriginalName; 2020-02-14 at 06:13 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by arr0gance View Post
    Maybe they can poll the AI and figure out why their game sucks.

  15. #215
    Classic has a "hard mode". It's called rolling Alliance on a PvP server.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    PSA: Vanilla was never that challenging, most people just weren't very good at the game yet. And most of the difficulty was artificial, like 'must have X Fire/Nature resistance or die to this mechanic'.

    Not sure why this is hard to understand, but 15 years of vastly more complex/difficult raid fights and experience with these classes/specs kind of makes a difference.

    As for 'what's the point if there's no challenge' - I don't know, fun maybe? Nostalgia? Enjoying the lore, community/social stuff, etc? If the only way you can enjoy a game is if its difficult, you're playing the wrong version of WoW.

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    Right? I understand that people like Classic better but the idea that vanilla was even remotely as difficult as the modern game is a joke.
    A large part of the difficulty is also the resources we have today. Without sims / guides telling you whats BiS most current classic players aren't doing anywhere near the DPS they do now. Back then there weren't simming programs that literally told you your BIS. People just assumed tier/dungeon set gear was the best and there wasn't much we could do to find out otherwise.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Classic has extremely little content if you're not a raider or a serious PvP:er, however I'm beginning to feel that the content it does have is way too easy. Raids are cleared the first reset by most guilds and then you're back to raid logging for farm raids that are almost as easy as LFR is in retail.
    It doesn't give you a sense of accomplishment and the character progression is extremely slow, with new gear upgrades coming at you about once a month.
    It's starting to feel like, what's the point if there's no challenge?
    How long did it take you to clear in D1?

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Classic has extremely little content if you're not a raider or a serious PvP:er, however I'm beginning to feel that the content it does have is way too easy. Raids are cleared the first reset by most guilds and then you're back to raid logging
    Erp derp, world-class guilds can clear a mid-tier raid after 15 years of experience on it erp derp.

    Do you expect Method to wipe on normal G'huun today too ?
    Quote Originally Posted by lollerlaban View Post
    Let's not kid ourselves, LFR is way harder than any of the Classic raids and that's a hilarious feat in itself.
    Bullshit.
    Decent guilds with good gear do wipe on BWL and only a very small minority cleared the raid already. Random pick-up with trash gear clear LFR in the hour.
    MC was the LFR-level raid. BWL is normal-level. It's easily cleared by hardcore guilds, it'll be easily cleared after a few wipes by decent guilds, it'll be cleared after some progression by regular guilds.
    Only dumb trolls who still desperately try to shit on Classic claim otherwise.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Eugenik View Post
    It contextual to what he said. He said BWL is easy because some guilds are clearing BWL sub 45mins. Those guilds have been practicing. How quickly did your guild clear BWL without practice?
    2 hours. Just over actually. With 36 people for the most part. Zero ps players, a bunch of us played vanilla, and a bunch of friends / family that make our guild up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akka View Post
    Erp derp, world-class guilds can clear a mid-tier raid after 15 years of experience on it erp derp.

    Do you expect Method to wipe on normal G'huun today too ?

    Bullshit.
    Decent guilds with good gear do wipe on BWL and only a very small minority cleared the raid already. Random pick-up with trash gear clear LFR in the hour.
    MC was the LFR-level raid. BWL is normal-level. It's easily cleared by hardcore guilds, it'll be easily cleared after a few wipes by decent guilds, it'll be cleared after some progression by regular guilds.
    Only dumb trolls who still desperately try to shit on Classic claim otherwise.
    Lfr generally takes an hour per wing, minimum, not per raid, and that's assuming no major disruptions. Wipes are extremely common and it is very rare to get a full clear with no wipes.

    The hardest classic bosses are about the same as the hardest lfr bosses, and the easiest classic bosses are much, much easier than the easiest lfr bosses.

    There is only a few delusional clowns left trying to deny this. People have done both now and have made their own mind up.

    Side note - it wasn't "after some progression" it was being full cleared day one by pugs. Literally thousands of runs completed day one, within a few hours. The data is in, accept it and move on, it's not a big deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    How long did it take you to clear in D1?
    Are you asking about day1? Ours was a little over 2 hours with some pugs and only 36 ppl. If everyone was there we probably would have been much, much quicker, but we don't have any pserver players at all so it was either new, or at best some of us did it 14 or so years ago.

  20. #220
    Too easy yes. But that is only because Classic players tryhard a lot.

    If they want a challenge, they can go with non meta and normaly geared toons. Exclude warriors, priests, mages, rogues. Then do MC & BWL etc.

    It will feel more like Vanilla.

    The problem is not only Classic players only flock to FoTM classes and specs, but they also geared way faster than back then by exploiting (layers / powerleveling), boting (gold / pvp ranks / AV), "fair" loot council (to ninja gear from naive newbies) and raid splits (possible mostly because of the overgeared thing).
    If you add on top of that pre BiS blues (wich are often BiS until AQ40+) and pre BC talents, then you're in for something really easy and unchallenging.

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