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  1. #41
    Dreadlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by draynay View Post
    Somebody does, but it isn't me.
    So you think kansas looks like this? Smart one

    https://i.redd.it/mzdrk46ytme41.jpg
    "We Choose Truth over Facts" - Joe Biden
    "You're too old to vote for me" - Joe Biden

    We need to completely demolish MAGAFT

  2. #42
    I am Murloc! shadowmouse's Avatar
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    @Edge-

    In January, Radio Sputnik, a propaganda arm of the Russian government, started broadcasting on three Kansas City-area radio stations during prime drive times, even sharing one frequency with a station rooted in the city’s historic jazz district.
    Right. Erm ... <shadowmouse makes note to self> If things truly go into the crapper and I have to evacuate out of China, looks like next stop is <checks map> Damned near anyplace that isn't a return to the US. TMD
    With COVID-19 making its impact on our lives, I have decided that I shall hang in there for my remaining days, skip some meals, try to get children to experiment with making henna patterns on their skin, and plant some trees. You know -- live, fast, dye young, and leave a pretty copse. I feel like I may not have that quite right.

  3. #43
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by js3915 View Post
    So you think kansas looks like this? Smart one

    https://i.redd.it/mzdrk46ytme41.jpg
    Do you not even know the source of the image you're linking? It seems not, and now I am pained by having to explain an obvious joke...

    ...that is Kansas edited with sharpie, to mock Trump, for a stupid thing he said, a thing I repeated "in quotes" because it was a quote

    Let me know if you need the sharpie part of the joke explained, it is a politics forum, I do expect people to have some degree of wherewithal but I have been proven wrong before.
    /s

  4. #44
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Man, Russia is on their game. Owning and destroying the USA for the last couple years. Feel sorry for the young Americans out there.

  5. #45
    If it wasn't paid for by the Russian government, it could be written off as just another group of cynics protected under free speech.

    But it's paid for by the Russian government.

    Quote Originally Posted by callipygoustp View Post
    Man, Russia is on their game. Owning and destroying the USA for the last couple years. Feel sorry for the young Americans out there.
    Jokes on them I don't need propaganda to feel bad about living here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  6. #46
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jettisawn View Post
    Freedom on Speech is a thing, and if a Russian agency wants to put up their own spin on news I don't see the problem.

    What's the Alternative?

    Let government agencies tell us what is and isn't acceptable to put over the air waves? NO thank you.

    This McCarthysm is just sad and pathetic and not rooted in reality. People on here were all upset Russia spent a million dollars on Facebook ads, my response *that' it*.
    Genuine question: Does the first amendment apply to hostile foreign nations spreading blatantly false information?

    Sputnik is directly paid for by the Russian government, and while the radio show hosts themselves are paid by the station execs to air their ""opinion"" (they justify their presence on the show and their first amendment speech through this roundabout method) those station execs are getting paid by an arm of the Russian government's propaganda network.

    Russian propaganda isn't necessarily a right or left thing either. For decades Russia has been pushing propaganda within the US, attempting to push division and strife. And for a long time, Americans liked each other and their own country enough that it didn't work. But conservatives, who have a large presence of overt and closet racists, have grown discontent due to growing poverty. And rather blaming the source of low wages and fewer full time jobs, shitty corporations, they look to blame liberals and immigrants. And now, that Russian propaganda which targeted both sides found a foothold among conservative listeners who are actually discontent enough.

    But that little spiel ultimately comes back to what should free speech laws protect? Propaganda? Hate speech? Telling people to kill others, loot and ransack stores? Riot? Free speech has never been absolute, and many people think it is. There are a plethora of free speech laws that restrict what you can and can't say. It's just for some reason people hear FREEDOM OF SPEECH and get it in their head that that is some important commandment that means that people should be able to say anything they can.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
    2023: "What's with all these massively successful games with ugly (realistic) women? How could this have happened?!"

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Russians are paying Americans to repeat Fox News talking points on radio... oh, the horror!

    Such deadly threat to American democracy! /s

    ...and then people immediately advocate for things that actually might be a threat to supposedly curb it.
    Ummm, yes. Foreign governments funneling money into manipulating our politics is bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    Having the authority to do a thing doesn't make it just, moral, or even correct.

  8. #48
    The Undying Cthulhu 2020's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowmouse View Post
    Right. Erm ... <shadowmouse makes note to self> If things truly go into the crapper and I have to evacuate out of China, looks like next stop is <checks map> Damned near anyplace that isn't a return to the US. TMD
    "Citizens shouldn't oppose Russian propaganda in the US because the US government spread propaganda elsewhere, and as we all know, a country's citizens and its government are the same entity!"



    Whataboutism, an infamous soviet tactic. But they also didn't invent it, either, just stole it. Seems like that's a common tactic. I don't know why I should be happy to listen to foreign propaganda just because the government that rules over me also does it. People seem to forget the will of citizens and the will of the government can vary wildly. But being able to say I don't like the actions of my government also seems to be something uniquely western.
    2014 Gamergate: "If you want games without hyper sexualized female characters and representation, then learn to code!"
    2023: "What's with all these massively successful games with ugly (realistic) women? How could this have happened?!"

  9. #49
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Jokes on them I don't need propaganda to feel bad about living here.
    Genuinely made me chuckle a bit.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    That is debatable... inasmuch as it's nearly 1984.

    War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
    I am glad you caught that i think you are the only one hahaha

  11. #51
    I am Murloc! shadowmouse's Avatar
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    @Cthulhu 2020

    <scratches head> What are you going on about and why have you quoted me to apparently reply to things I haven't said?
    With COVID-19 making its impact on our lives, I have decided that I shall hang in there for my remaining days, skip some meals, try to get children to experiment with making henna patterns on their skin, and plant some trees. You know -- live, fast, dye young, and leave a pretty copse. I feel like I may not have that quite right.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    Ummm, yes. Foreign governments funneling money into manipulating our politics is bad.
    Are you of opinion that Voice of America and something like RFE/RL (or even BBC) were/are perfectly ok to be banned in various countries that do not actually fund them?

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Are you of opinion that Voice of America and something like RFE/RL (or even BBC) were/are perfectly ok to be banned in various countries that do not actually fund them?
    Considering neither is guilty of the kinds of "hidden" propaganda of RT, yeah. If either starts spreading propaganda like RT has, and still is, then we can have that conversation.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Cthulhu 2020 View Post
    Whataboutism, an infamous soviet tactic. But they also didn't invent it, either, just stole it. Seems like that's a common tactic. I don't know why I should be happy to listen to foreign propaganda just because the government that rules over me also does it. People seem to forget the will of citizens and the will of the government can vary wildly. But being able to say I don't like the actions of my government also seems to be something uniquely western.
    Don't know, plenty of people are saying they don't like actions of government in Russia, doesn't seem to be anything uniquely Western about it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Considering neither is guilty of the kinds of "hidden" propaganda of RT, yeah. If either starts spreading propaganda like RT has, and still is, then we can have that conversation.
    How exactly do you define "guilt", and what is so different in what they do from what RT does? They seem quite similar - give voice to various dissidents and let them air/give platform to their grievances.

    And RFE/RL is pretty open about being propaganda - it's right in their history "RFE was founded as an anti-communist propaganda source in 1949 by the National Committee for a Free Europe. RL was founded two years later and the two organizations merged in 1976."

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    And RFE/RL is pretty open about being propaganda - it's right in their history "RFE was founded as an anti-communist propaganda source in 1949 by the National Committee for a Free Europe. RL was founded two years later and the two organizations merged in 1976."
    In its inception, yes. But its mission has changed over time - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_...l_of_communism

    But what are they doing now that could be considered propaganda, specifically?

    For a comparison, here are a handful of pieces on Sputnik's propaganda efforts in recent years -

    https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...eporter-215511
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/arts/af...ing-everything
    https://www.opensecrets.org/news/201...in-propaganda/
    https://english.elpais.com/elpais/20...71_124173.html
    https://www.newsweek.com/russian-net...paganda-662844
    https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/11/10...of-propaganda/

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    In its inception, yes. But its mission has changed over time - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_...l_of_communism
    Perhaps "stated" mission did; their content barely changed though.

    BBG/U.S. Agency for Global Media that manages them always was US propaganda arm.

    Sputnik's "stated mission" isn't propaganda too, it ' was intended to "provide alternative interpretations that are, undoubtedly, in demand around the world" ' and ' "break the monopoly of the Anglo-Saxon global information streams." '

    Kind of fair contest, two takes on events come in, one wins, one loses.

    Again, what is the difference between their content and RFE/RL? Other then different committees driving takes and focus.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Again, what is the difference between their content and RFE/RL? Other then different committees driving takes and focus.
    I dunno, that's on you to show. I provided links to back up my argument, waiting on yours.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I dunno, that's on you to show. I provided links to back up my argument, waiting on yours.
    I provided links too, nothing that you linked refutes RFE/RL still being propaganda arm of US government.

    ...propaganda arm that even turns on Americans themselves nowadays.

    RT mission:
    RT creates news with an edge for viewers who want to Question More. RT covers stories overlooked by the mainstream media, provides alternative perspectives on current affairs, and acquaints international audiences with a Russian viewpoint on major global events.

    RFE/RL mission:
    RFE/RL’s mission is to promote democratic values and institutions by reporting the news in countries where a free press is banned by the government or not fully established. Our journalists provide what many people cannot get locally: uncensored news, responsible discussion, and open debate.

    Same thing from different angles as far as i see (given US funding and US attitudes, "democratic values" can be observed to be synonymous with "whatever current US policy is" there).

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    I provided links too, nothing that you linked refutes RFE/RL still being propaganda arm of US government.

    ...propaganda arm that even turns on Americans themselves nowadays.

    RT mission:
    RT creates news with an edge for viewers who want to Question More. RT covers stories overlooked by the mainstream media, provides alternative perspectives on current affairs, and acquaints international audiences with a Russian viewpoint on major global events.

    RFE/RL mission:
    RFE/RL’s mission is to promote democratic values and institutions by reporting the news in countries where a free press is banned by the government or not fully established. Our journalists provide what many people cannot get locally: uncensored news, responsible discussion, and open debate.

    Same thing from different angles as far as i see (given US funding and US attitudes, "democratic values" can be observed to be synonymous with "whatever current US policy is" there).
    To the "missions". I'm talking about links to example and analysis, like I provided. Absent that, this is a pointless "BOTH SIDES" argument you're making without actually backing anything you say up.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    To the "missions". I'm talking about links to example and analysis, like I provided. Absent that, this is a pointless "BOTH SIDES" argument you're making without actually backing anything you say up.
    Let's back up a bit.

    Assuming (If) RFE/RL is actually US propaganda arm (given that it is US-funded and US-controlled), are you okay with it being banned from broadcasting in any country for that reason? In a similar manner people argue Sputnik should be banned in US?

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