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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Throwme View Post
    So what you're trying to say is, because other people have good/bad RNG with corruption, I am no longer a good player?



    What?
    Being good doesn't mean shit anymore when some jackass who can barely cast a spell is still gonna top the meters because he had the best corruption and traits drop while actual good players are benched because their gear just can't compete.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    Unless you're playing an expansion earlier than Cata, then your statement isn't accurate.
    Isn't it?

    So non of those sub 1% op as fuck items in classic arn't basicly just coruption given by a different form of rng?

    I'll be sure to rember that when some scrub melts me with hand of rag or thuderfury or one of the god broken weapons procs and trinkets.

  3. #63
    The Lightbringer msdos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Isn't it?

    So non of those sub 1% op as fuck items in classic arn't basicly just coruption given by a different form of rng?

    I'll be sure to rember that when some scrub melts me with hand of rag or thuderfury or one of the god broken weapons procs and trinkets.
    Well only 1 person has Hand of Rag in my guild and we gave it to a shammy and wtf are you even talking about. Lmao. I don't agree with you or any of your future posts, no, just no.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Throwme View Post
    So a scrub that has never set foot in a +5 can suddenly push +15?

    And someone that used to do +15 blindfolded with one arm on the back is suddenly so bad that a +5 means wiping on the first pack?
    No what he is say is that it’s worst than Titian forge and legion legs RNG combined, you can put 2 both skilled player next to each other the one with IS and TD is prob gonna smash you by 30k DPS even tho you’re pumping 50k already, so if a shit play gets one of those gear it’s going to out preform you even if he dies 10x on a run.

  5. #65
    poorly phrased but true

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Throwme View Post
    So what you're trying to say is, because other people have good/bad RNG with corruption, I am no longer a good player?



    What?
    no what i was saying is baddies are going high and ripping keys to failing season 1 mechanics

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Well, since OP gives anecdotal evidence...how about this:

    Limit won the WF race, but is ("only") the 2nd best geared in the world
    Method came second, is only 14th best geared guild. So..safe to say they lost because "gear"?

    Pieces came third, is only 46th best geared guild.

    Memento at ninth is only the onehundrethnine best geared guild and STILL at 11/12 as the best geared guild in the world Банхаммер btw is ("only") at 11/12...

    Sure...unfair to pull this at the peak of the raiding game in the top 20. But especially there it is proof that it DOES matter how good you are. But I guess the guilds that perform better with lesser gear just got lucky on RNG ^^

    Well, I am looking forward to a full 5 chest clear by a guy who has no clue what he does...just because he got lucky on the drops. Or..how about a video where that guy solos a mythic+ like a bumbling idiot..but hey...gear ^^
    i agree it wont matter to top level players, the problem im personally having is shit players are coming up into high keys failing season 1 mechanics, the only explanation as to how they got that high a rio is they were boosted by there overpowered corruption.

    Of course there will still be quality players up there with bad luck, but it will take a grp of them to achieve that imo, having these baddies in a party only increases the chance of the key ripping, doesnt matter how good you are if you have a rogue thats standing in barrel smash in freehold to try and do extra damage your pretty much 4manning the fight on 17/18

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    Well only 1 person has Hand of Rag in my guild and we gave it to a shammy and wtf are you even talking about. Lmao. I don't agree with you or any of your future posts, no, just no.
    Apparently in his mind hand of ragnaros drops off world quests that don't even exist in classic.
    Snarky: Adjective - Any language that contains quips or comments containing sarcastic or satirical witticisms intended as blunt irony. Usually delivered in a manner that is somewhat abrupt and out of context and intended to stun and amuse.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by odamienskii View Post
    2300 rio ppl dieing to season 1 mechanics in 17s/18s because there corruption carried them through 16s.
    It sounds like you don't know anything about mythic+ and you're just making shit up. There is no type or amount of corruption that would carry a player without a basic understanding of mechanics through a 16. Their friends (paid or otherwise) may carry them, but their corruption will not. If you're not completely making up your tale to support your dislike of the corruption system, I would guess that what you saw was either someone who bought their account or paid for carries. I saw no shortage of people in s3 (and before) who played nothing like their high IO would have indicated.

    My main has been terribly unlucky with corruption and I think the RNG implementation of wildly unbalanced effects was terrible. But your example of why it is bad is entirely bullshit.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Love it.

    Now I just need to get Infinite Stars on my DH instead of on my alts.
    I got rank 3 on my pally.....I don't even play my pally!!
    Me thinks Chromie has a whole lot of splaining to do!

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by odamienskii View Post
    How can you say all of that after saying "math isnt hard" neither is logic.

    You were GAURANTEED to get all legos, you are not guranteed to get the corruption you want because it is totally rng, it will continue through the season because you can be damn certain the corruption wanted is going to be duplicating on slots for some while others its going to land perfectly, not to mention actual item stats. imagine rank 3 stars on an item with your worst possible stats ring,

    if your lucky then bfa is better, if your unlucky then bfa is far worse
    You were NOT guaranteed to get all legos - unles you farmed shit content, for a year.
    I am unlucky and BfA is still miles better than not having bis leggos for almost a year.
    Because I know, I will get IS and other corruptions in coupe of weeks, not couple of months.
    And there is this thing called dps/corruption rating which you need to educate yourself about.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by mirishka View Post
    so, like the game has always been. Because there's stuff that didn't drop for me in mc or bwl, like bis stuff (that still hasn't dropped, probably like 500+ transmog runs later).
    <stares loudly at the bindings of the windseeker​>
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Well, since OP gives anecdotal evidence...how about this:

    Limit won the WF race, but is ("only") the 2nd best geared in the world
    Method came second, is only 14th best geared guild. So..safe to say they lost because "gear"?

    Pieces came third, is only 46th best geared guild.

    Memento at ninth is only the onehundrethnine best geared guild and STILL at 11/12 as the best geared guild in the world Банхаммер btw is ("only") at 11/12...

    Sure...unfair to pull this at the peak of the raiding game in the top 20. But especially there it is proof that it DOES matter how good you are. But I guess the guilds that perform better with lesser gear just got lucky on RNG ^^

    Well, I am looking forward to a full 5 chest clear by a guy who has no clue what he does...just because he got lucky on the drops. Or..how about a video where that guy solos a mythic+ like a bumbling idiot..but hey...gear ^^
    At the time of Limits N'zoth kill Method was the best geared one and Limit came in 2nd.
    Not that it has anything to do with the topic at hand but wanted to correct this.
    They also used lower Ilvl gear with the top Corruption.
    "If you are what you HAVE and you lose what you have, what then are you? But if you are what you ARE and you lose what you have, no man controls your destiny".

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Well, since OP gives anecdotal evidence...how about this:

    Limit won the WF race, but is ("only") the 2nd best geared in the world
    Method came second, is only 14th best geared guild. So..safe to say they lost because "gear"?

    Pieces came third, is only 46th best geared guild.

    Memento at ninth is only the onehundrethnine best geared guild and STILL at 11/12 as the best geared guild in the world Банхаммер btw is ("only") at 11/12...

    Sure...unfair to pull this at the peak of the raiding game in the top 20. But especially there it is proof that it DOES matter how good you are. But I guess the guilds that perform better with lesser gear just got lucky on RNG ^^

    Well, I am looking forward to a full 5 chest clear by a guy who has no clue what he does...just because he got lucky on the drops. Or..how about a video where that guy solos a mythic+ like a bumbling idiot..but hey...gear ^^
    How is "best geared" defined though, i hope not by looking at ilvl, becaue due to corruption ilvl basicly says nothing. For example Limit and Method spend 100's of millions of gold on lower ilvl BoE's with the "right" corruptions.

    Guilds who are less rich and cannot afford that will often be running higher ilvl gear that actually isn't better than the lower ilvl gear but might look "better" because their average ilvl is higher.


    Quote Originally Posted by Monster Hunter View Post
    Isn't it?

    So non of those sub 1% op as fuck items in classic arn't basicly just coruption given by a different form of rng?

    I'll be sure to rember that when some scrub melts me with hand of rag or thuderfury or one of the god broken weapons procs and trinkets.
    There is no real different from of RNG at play there. The item drops or it doesn't. As was common in WoW from launch to ToT (MoP) when Titanforging was added. And this form of RNG is still in place today, however with a lot more layers of RNG on top of it. Also i don't think there are a lot "1% OP as fuck" items in Vanilla / Classic, even the bindings are rated at 6% on wowhead.
    Last edited by chronia; 2020-02-14 at 08:38 PM.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Well, since OP gives anecdotal evidence...how about this:

    Limit won the WF race, but is ("only") the 2nd best geared in the world
    Method came second, is only 14th best geared guild. So..safe to say they lost because "gear"?

    Pieces came third, is only 46th best geared guild.

    Memento at ninth is only the onehundrethnine best geared guild and STILL at 11/12 as the best geared guild in the world Банхаммер btw is ("only") at 11/12...

    Sure...unfair to pull this at the peak of the raiding game in the top 20. But especially there it is proof that it DOES matter how good you are. But I guess the guilds that perform better with lesser gear just got lucky on RNG ^^

    Well, I am looking forward to a full 5 chest clear by a guy who has no clue what he does...just because he got lucky on the drops. Or..how about a video where that guy solos a mythic+ like a bumbling idiot..but hey...gear ^^
    How did you gauge best? When did you take that measurement/sample? Did you sim each of their characters?
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  15. #75
    It never mattered how good you were in this game...........

    This game has always been about GEAR! Blizzard very clearly states it. Look what happened in pvp. They tried to use templates to make pvp balanced and competatively honest- but everyone cried because they just couldn't outgear and stomp people everyone! No one cared who was actually better or more skilled- they just cared about the gear!

    Even the "pinnacle" of this game- Raids are more about: finding reliable people that work well together and using the right strats then it is about skill or ability.

    When did anyone ever get the crazy notion that player skill mattered at all in this game? You are confusing an mmo with competitive type games- they are different genres.

    Why do you think Blizzard's E sports never really takes off like they always think it will? This game was never about skill- even in Vanilla. Just look at how fast people cleared those raids in classic- how can you possibly argue that it took any skill at all to beat them? Its all about the gear and planning- the groups that did it even explained that in their videos........

    The other reason it never really mattered was that it's just a video game- so it doesn't really matter. Its for fun.

  16. #76
    To be fair it never really mattered.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Throwme View Post
    So a scrub that has never set foot in a +5 can suddenly push +15?

    And someone that used to do +15 blindfolded with one arm on the back is suddenly so bad that a +5 means wiping on the first pack?
    Quit being dense. He's saying an average skilled player who does content (say, someone who is 70th percentile for reactiontime/movement/APMs, etc... whatever metrics you want to determine the physical skill of a player) will beat someone who is 90th percentile if the avg player gets lucky and the skilled player is unlucky.

    The variation on gear acquired now-a-days is HUGE when comparing two people who have done relatively the same content, and that gear has more power influence than ever, meaning the range of performance between two people with the same ilvl is also HUGE.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Beefhammer View Post
    To be fair it never really mattered.
    Incorrect, but thanks for playing. In the past, it certainly had a higher impact than it does now.

  18. #78
    The Unstoppable Force Gaidax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by odamienskii View Post
    at the highest end of the scale you will be 20k dps below the next guy, no matter how good you are if they have bis corruption and you have worst......unlucky! that can cost keys
    Cut the BS really.

    You won't be 20k DPS below next guy because of corruptions, that's just nonsense. If you had half a clue, you'd realize that what matters is effect per corruption and overall after EV got nerfed and Void Ritual got buffed (and is actually decent now) things are pretty close now.

    Sure Stars is still best ST and TD is great in AoE, but it's not 20k DPS difference between that and average options.

    ---

    There was legitimate bullshit going on at launch of the patch, but right now after the adjustments? There is like maybe 1-2 outliers that don't really stick out that much, certainly not the magnitude being hyperboled here.

    I'd say Twilight Devastation is probably the only big bad left and it seems it's on Blizz radar anyway.

  19. #79
    Ah yes, give the world 20000 normal guild perfect gear and perfect corruptions and watch them kill Mythic N'zoth.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Alydael View Post
    It never mattered how good you were in this game...........
    Wrong.

    This game has always been about GEAR! Blizzard very clearly states it.
    This game has always been about staying on the tread mill and getting the best gear you could, but in the past (pre-legion), the variability of the impact gear had of various ilvls wasn't nearly as large as it is now. Two people clearing the same content could relatively reasonably expect to have the same gear, and thus skill would be the determining factor for performance (assuming same spec).

    Look what happened in pvp. They tried to use templates to make pvp balanced and competatively honest- but everyone cried because they just couldn't outgear and stomp people everyone! No one cared who was actually better or more skilled- they just cared about the gear!
    Mischaracterization at it's finest. People weren't mad at templates and not being able to out-gear people. They were mad that 1) gear STILL ABSOLUTELY had an impact and 2) Even with the easy tuning knobs of templates, balance was still horrendous and oversaturated with fotm specs and comps. They should have been tuning that shit weekly. They failed at utilizing the tool properly.

    Even the "pinnacle" of this game- Raids are more about: finding reliable people that work well together and using the right strats then it is about skill or ability.
    And again, that's easy enough to do. So what does the game come down to AFTER you reach that relatively low bar? What was left to optimize? Ah. Right. Personal performance and skill.

    When did anyone ever get the crazy notion that player skill mattered at all in this game? You are confusing an mmo with competitive type games- they are different genres.
    The entire reason raiding was as long lived and as popular as it is in wow is because of the unique competitive cooperation it has. People love to epeen stroke. Just downing a boss in a group is boring, and no one likes to be the bitch getting carried (well.. maybe they do?).

    The other reason it never really mattered was that it's just a video game- so it doesn't really matter. Its for fun.
    Literally every sport in the history of ever. What matters to people and how much it matters isn't for you to say. "But sports make so much money!" yeah, and when "kick a ball with your firends" started back in like 12097963bc, did it make tons of money then? No? It took Time? A SHIT ton of time? Wow. Who would have thought.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    hyperboled here.
    I don't know what the difference is, but I can definitely say even 5k dps is hugely meaningful when the overall dps a person has on a fight is 50k. 10% variance is still way too much for a dumb special effect that is randomly acquired from non-static, RNG layered loot. "Did it drop" was good enough in the past, and it would allow stupid stuff like this to be much less meaningful, since basically everyone and their brother would get it at some point during a raid tier if they were full-clearing that raid. Now? Not so much.

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