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  1. #721
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    This is the truth.

    Honestly these classic threads need more moderation. If people came into the retail threads telling everyone there they were stupid and childish while stating the same obvious things over and over and just clearly antagonistic to the game, would those accounts receive infractions?

    Every classic thread is unreadable because of the trolls. It’s truly awful.
    But it isn't true. If apes performed better then they would have won. The race started when the instance opened. Apes were too retarded to enter the instance. That's a massive dent in performance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  2. #722
    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    I disagree, too.

    How is +20 known? The dungeon? Maybe, but that's the nature of the system. The strategy to beat +20 though? Or even higher than that? Not really.

    I played ultra casual and beat +10 as well in BFA. No problem. +20? Or maybe +15? Of course not, I have no idea about pathing. Likewise I have no idea how to clear BWL in 30 minutes like those freaks do.

    Again, the content type is different. In it's core it looks like it's the same, but it really isn't. As such, comparing it isn't fair to either game.

    How come guilds now progressing in mythic is failing? They have the strategies, it's out there for all to see and copy, why do they fail but in classic they are not?

    And don't answer "they dont fail in classic because they have been doing BWL for 15 years now", they haven't. Everyone playing classic or entering BWL has not played it for 15 years. Some top guilds clearing it in 30 mins have been practicing on private servers, a few guilds comes from Nostalrius or Elysium, Nostalrius was released in 2015. Those guys clears it in 30 min. Normal people clears it in under ~24 hours.

  3. #723
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    I don't really care about the WF, but just trying to ignore them losing 8? minutes to a zone in bug makes no sense. You can't just ignore the fact that they would of won handily without that happening.
    We aren't allowed to ignore a possibility but you can ignore a fact. Apes were third. After years of planning and training and exploiting and cheating, apes came third. That makes them only the third best guild. They didn't win, they didn't even come second. Apes came third. This might be hard for you to understand, and it probably is for apes right now as they blatently lied to people and released a YouTube video claiming they won the world first race but no amount of goalpost shifting or self delusion will change this.

    I'm curious. Why do you make excuses for a guild that is known for exploiting and cheating? Is that who you want your heroes to be? People who do whatever they can to win and then when they don't just fucking lie about it anyway? Is it more pathetic to lie and cheat or is it more pathetic to make excuses for the lies and cheating?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  4. #724
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mh4cker View Post
    How come guilds now progressing in mythic is failing? They have the strategies, it's out there for all to see and copy, why do they fail but in classic they are not?

    And don't answer "they dont fail in classic because they have been doing BWL for 15 years now", they haven't. Everyone playing classic or entering BWL has not played it for 15 years. Some top guilds clearing it in 30 mins have been practicing on private servers, a few guilds comes from Nostalrius or Elysium, Nostalrius was released in 2015. Those guys clears it in 30 min. Normal people clears it in under ~24 hours.
    ??? Ny'alotha is dropping like flys since the top guilds have cleared it. Heroic is on farm for everyone who even tries raiding. And mythic will soon follow when enough people get there.

    World First Kill of Nefarian took 77 days after release.

    Kel'thuzad stayed alive for 90 days

    Ragnaros 154 days


    ...

    N'Zoth Mythic 16 days


    And don't answer "back in the days we just didn't know what we were doing". Everything is just so insanely "professionalized" nowadays and classic speedrun tactics are available for everyone as well.

    Retail isn't easy. Vanilla wasn't easy either when it first hit. So again, stop comparing it.

    Plus, I bet you most of the people who downed it on first day had a core of gamers from either back in the day, or from private servers.
    Last edited by StayTuned; 2020-02-14 at 11:50 PM.

  5. #725
    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post

    Retail isn't easy. Vanilla wasn't easy either when it first hit. So again, stop comparing it.
    Funny, comparing is literally exactly what you're doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post

    World First Kill of Nefarian took 77 days after release.

    Kel'thuzad stayed alive for 90 days

    Ragnaros 154 days

    N'Zoth Mythic 16 days
    "I feel bad for Limit , they put in so many hours only to come in second place" - Methodjosh

  6. #726
    Quote Originally Posted by Poe View Post
    Funny, comparing is literally exactly what you're doing.
    Read the history between us before you spout nonsense. I was showing that you can spin it in any direction you want, you can find always either arguments for retail or for classic.

    Therefore it's pointless to try at all. Just take both games as individual experiences and stop comparing them.

  7. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    We aren't allowed to ignore a possibility but you can ignore a fact. Apes were third. After years of planning and training and exploiting and cheating, apes came third. That makes them only the third best guild. They didn't win, they didn't even come second. Apes came third. This might be hard for you to understand, and it probably is for apes right now as they blatently lied to people and released a YouTube video claiming they won the world first race but no amount of goalpost shifting or self delusion will change this.

    I'm curious. Why do you make excuses for a guild that is known for exploiting and cheating? Is that who you want your heroes to be? People who do whatever they can to win and then when they don't just fucking lie about it anyway? Is it more pathetic to lie and cheat or is it more pathetic to make excuses for the lies and cheating?
    Out of curiosity, how did APES cheat/exploit? You seem to be taking whatever they did really personally and I just wonder what they did that's so upsetting.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Because fuck you, that's why.

  8. #728
    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    ??? Ny'alotha is dropping like flys since the top guilds have cleared it. Heroic is on farm for everyone who even tries raiding. And mythic will soon follow when enough people get there.

    World First Kill of Nefarian took 77 days after release.

    Kel'thuzad stayed alive for 90 days

    Ragnaros 154 days


    ...

    N'Zoth Mythic 16 days


    And don't answer "back in the days we just didn't know what we were doing". Everything is just so insanely "professionalized" nowadays and classic speedrun tactics are available for everyone as well.

    Retail isn't easy. Vanilla wasn't easy either when it first hit. So again, stop comparing it.

    Plus, I bet you most of the people who downed it on first day had a core of gamers from either back in the day, or from private servers.

    Yes Ny'alotha is dropping like flies....
    1% have cleared it, no, less then 1%. 4 guilds out of thousands who have entered and atleast cleared 1 boss.

    Last patch raid, Eternal Palace, still only 15% of guilds have cleared it. It was released 7 months ago. If guilds could they would, just for achivements.

    I do think that "back in the day" people were just that bad. I was like 17 back then, not even key binding, still was able to clear both MC and BWL with my casual guild.

    When you count Ragnaros 154 days you count from release. As people started off at level 1. People had no clue at all.
    In classic it took 6 days after release of the game.

    So with all the knowledge it took 6 days.
    You saying that if BFA resetted it would take a total of 6 days for guilds to clear mythic ny'alotha?

    Get real dude.

  9. #729
    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    ??? Ny'alotha is dropping like flys since the top guilds have cleared it. Heroic is on farm for everyone who even tries raiding. And mythic will soon follow when enough people get there.

    World First Kill of Nefarian took 77 days after release.

    Kel'thuzad stayed alive for 90 days

    Ragnaros 154 days


    ...

    N'Zoth Mythic 16 days


    And don't answer "back in the days we just didn't know what we were doing". Everything is just so insanely "professionalized" nowadays and classic speedrun tactics are available for everyone as well.

    Retail isn't easy. Vanilla wasn't easy either when it first hit. So again, stop comparing it.

    Plus, I bet you most of the people who downed it on first day had a core of gamers from either back in the day, or from private servers.
    I cleared naxx 40 back in classic (was in a top 10 US guild). The amount of prep and raid time we put in isn't even 1/10 of what Limit did to clear Ny'Alotha. So yeah its pretty easy to say Mythic is a LOT harder these days because it needs to be to challenge a top guild in the current year. Apes is just showing what any top guild would do if current raids were as easy as they were in classic.

  10. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellieg View Post
    I'm not surprised that the guilds that have been practicing, cleared it so fast. But anyone else who actually raids in classic (not half the internet badasses in here who dont even play the game) happy that you wiped last night? We have slackers in my guild so started late but we only got 2 bosses down last night. Had to adjust our strat for razorgore, and then the same for vael. Spent 20 some mins figuring out that we shld just go right side for suppression room cause ppl kept pulling the top part. Then someone aggrod broodlord before we were rdy and we called it a night.

    I'm sure we will have it on farm soon enough, but felt good to face some adversity and actually progress as a guild.

    Ppl clearing it in 43 mins doesnt affect me. Slightly more difficult content does. For all the ppl that talk abt how much of a joke this raid is, did your guild clear nef last night? Did you get stuck anywhere? Or do you not even raid in classic?
    I consider my guild fairly casual, but we cleared it last night. Our scheduled raid time ended a few minutes after we wiped on nef and everybody agreed as a group to give it one more shot and we killed it. It was nice having difficulties in the raid, it showed us where we can improve as a raid and as individuals. We didnt try wednesday, because that's not a raid day for us.
    Last edited by spdr; 2020-02-15 at 12:16 AM.

  11. #731
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mh4cker View Post
    Yes Ny'alotha is dropping like flies....
    1% have cleared it, no, less then 1%. 4 guilds out of thousands who have entered and atleast cleared 1 boss.

    Last patch raid, Eternal Palace, still only 15% of guilds have cleared it. It was released 7 months ago. If guilds could they would, just for achivements.

    I do think that "back in the day" people were just that bad. I was like 17 back then, not even key binding, still was able to clear both MC and BWL with my casual guild.

    When you count Ragnaros 154 days you count from release. As people started off at level 1. People had no clue at all.
    In classic it took 6 days after release of the game.

    So with all the knowledge it took 6 days.
    You saying that if BFA resetted it would take a total of 6 days for guilds to clear mythic ny'alotha?

    Get real dude.
    I'm not going to get into percentages, because I can't be bothered to look up how many guilds are actually raiding mythic on retail compared to how many guilds raided and completed vanilla content. So I'll pass on that, maybe you're right, maybe you are not.

    But you're saying that building a house 300 years ago was fucking easy, because now we have fine tuned how to build sky-high towers? Come on.

    I am again telling you that you're comparing apples with oranges. You're literally looking at the improved technology that is available today, and say "see, it's harder because it's more complex" while not even thinking about the circumstances that made vanilla so challenging in the beginning. You're just cherry picking factors that constitute for progress being hard.

    As if anyone sane ever said that vanilla bosses were designed more elaborate. Like, omg Ony breathes fire on you. Big wow. On some of the retail raids I felt like I have to literally dance my name during the boss fight, while spinning counter clockwise and evading tentacles that try to #metoo me.

    And yet I had curve with pugs on ID 2 of BoD. Sure, not Mythic, but Heroic was easy enough to be cleared in a single ID with total strangers.

    But look, now you've actually drawn me into the bullshit of comparing apples to oranges. Congratz I guess.

  12. #732
    Quote Originally Posted by antelope591 View Post
    I cleared naxx 40 back in classic (was in a top 10 US guild). The amount of prep and raid time we put in isn't even 1/10 of what Limit did to clear Ny'Alotha. So yeah its pretty easy to say Mythic is a LOT harder these days because it needs to be to challenge a top guild in the current year. Apes is just showing what any top guild would do if current raids were as easy as they were in classic.
    I bet you would have put in more effort if it meant money, like it does today for these people.

  13. #733
    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    I'm not going to get into percentages, because I can't be bothered to look up how many guilds are actually raiding mythic on retail compared to how many guilds raided and completed vanilla content. So I'll pass on that, maybe you're right, maybe you are not.

    But you're saying that building a house 300 years ago was fucking easy, because now we have fine tuned how to build sky-high towers? Come on.

    I am again telling you that you're comparing apples with oranges. You're literally looking at the improved technology that is available today, and say "see, it's harder because it's more complex" while not even thinking about the circumstances that made vanilla so challenging in the beginning. You're just cherry picking factors that constitute for progress being hard.

    As if anyone sane ever said that vanilla bosses were designed more elaborate. Like, omg Ony breathes fire on you. Big wow. On some of the retail raids I felt like I have to literally dance my name during the boss fight, while spinning counter clockwise and evading tentacles that try to #metoo me.

    And yet I had curve with pugs on ID 2 of BoD. Sure, not Mythic, but Heroic was easy enough to be cleared in a single ID with total strangers.

    But look, now you've actually drawn me into the bullshit of comparing apples to oranges. Congratz I guess.
    Its easy. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...ogress&boss=-1.

    There you go.
    Here is classic: https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...ogress&boss=-1

    I'm comparing the hardest available content to the hardest available content.

  14. #734
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mh4cker View Post
    Its easy. https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...ogress&boss=-1.

    There you go.
    Here is classic: https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...ogress&boss=-1

    I'm comparing the hardest available content to the hardest available content.
    I'm sorry that your reading comprehension lacks in quality.

    Classic =/= Vanilla.

    Classic IS easy, because nothing is new. Vanilla wasn't easy, because everything was indeed new back then, much like in retail today.

    Maybe this misunderstanding is causing your confusion about the things I say?

  15. #735
    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    I'm sorry that your reading comprehension lacks in quality.

    Classic =/= Vanilla.

    Classic IS easy, because nothing is new. Vanilla wasn't easy, because everything was indeed new back then, much like in retail today.

    Maybe this misunderstanding is causing your confusion about the things I say?
    So I ask again. If BFA resetted today, would it take 6 days to clear mythic Ny'Alotha?

    Vanilla was not more difficult because it was new. The mechanics were just the same then as today. Nothing is changed in that area.
    People were worse at the game. Nothing was optimized. Still the same easy game.
    Last edited by d00mh4cker; 2020-02-15 at 12:36 AM.

  16. #736
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mh4cker View Post
    So I ask again. If BFA resetted today, would it take 6 days to clear mythic Ny'Alotha?
    If it resetted to the point back where NyAlotha was released, I bet Limit would clear it on day 1.

    If you want to stay fair to your own argument, you should have asked whether it would take 6 days to clear Uldir. Where if you actually released Uldir Mythic from the start, I'd say "maybe".

    Ghuun is indeed a bitch

  17. #737
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mh4cker View Post
    So I ask again. If BFA resetted today, would it take 6 days to clear mythic Ny'Alotha?
    has it been 15 years since Nyalotha opened ?

  18. #738
    Quote Originally Posted by d00mh4cker View Post
    Vanilla was not more difficult because it was new. The mechanics were just the same then as today. Nothing is changed in that area.
    People were worse at the game. Nothing was optimized. Still the same easy game.
    The fuck? Are you claiming there was 0 technological progress during the last 15 years of the game?

  19. #739
    BWL world first progression thread for Classic? lololol….rofl......mwhaahaa...wait, wait, excuse me.....lolololol...lmao
    "My guild beat your guild by 1 minute and 6 seconds mister! we cleared it in 45 minutes!" ...lol really? you must be so proud.
    This has gotten so stupid.

  20. #740
    Quote Originally Posted by DazManianDevil View Post
    I'm sure this may sound dumb, but how is the time actually calculated? As in, when it the concrete start and end times to ensure future timed runs are "honest"?
    I saw a video of a "world's fastest MC" clear and their timer didn't start until they pulled the first boss before Magmadar, yet they'd already cleared all the previous trash.
    The norm is from the first pull in mc and start of event in bwl. That's what's logged in warcraftlogs.

    There's also conpetitions from the first boss but those are agreed upon between guilds and aren't the norm

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