It doesnt matter how good you are anymore

[Jastall]

Two words: Master. Loot.

The problem here is magnified by the idiotic personal loot restrictions. Yes, there are some exceptions. More on this below.



I agree. But it remains to be seen whether or not, or to what degree, Blizzard follows through on their claim that Shadowlands is going to be all about player agency.

Again, these are all little things adding up and exacerbating each other. Corruption itself isn't that much worse than legendaries. But when combined with the inability to trade or sort effectively within a raid group makes it just that little bit worse.

I'm really hoping that Shadowlands is the "pull the stick out of your ass, Blizzard" expansion. They're starting with unpruning. I'm hoping they also revert the GCD change, and actually let gear be something that players can reasonably target with some certainty. The over-reliance on RNG has been one of the great fun-vampires of the past couple expansions. Some RNG is fine. But too much is too much.

I know that's a fine line to draw, and subjective to boot. But it's really at the point of the ridiculous right now.

You won't get any arguments from me RE Master Loot. Our resto shammy respecced to Enhancement for a farm Ashvane kill, forgot to change his loot spec and got a 450 socketed Coral that he couldn't trade. I'm still stuck with a 415 socketed one. That was one big feelsbad moment.

RE Corruption, at least you can get it via other means. I got lucky and had a rank 3 Infinite Stars from a WQ emmisary reward. A buddy got rank 2 TD on a M+0 ring when he carried a guildy's alt. The weekly cache gave me rank 2 Void Ritual which I'll use as soon as my corruption budget allows, and in M+. The sheer number of potential sources dampen the RNG quite a bit. But of course you'll still have haves and have-nots.

[apustus]

Are you trying to tell me corruption gear isn't a highly skill-based gameplay system?
[video=youtube_share;Z6lNbrlXccY]https://youtu.be/Z6lNbrlXccY[video]

Considering they would have lost every game if their opponents had eyes and saw that he has 100% increased damage taken and 100% reduced healing taken from corruptions... yes?

[luciano]

So what you're trying to say is, because other people have good/bad RNG with corruption, I am no longer a good player?



What?

He's saying there is no longer a correlation between how good a player is and how well the player will do in current-edge content.

The salient variable is now "luck" not "skill."

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I think people simply do not understand how much better this is than TF. The whole "points" system with corruption is pretty brilliant really and DPS/Corruption is a great balancing target overall.

I think there are 3 real flaws here:

• Corruption downsides can be more easily ignored by specific classes/specs/roles, which allows more benefit stacking than intended.
• System is complicated and misunderstood by players, which can lead to a lot of frustration.
• Whole ilvl system is somewhat broken now. Blizz told us how they want ilvl to matter and then went on and shat on it.

The rest are just balance issues that will be fixed (to some extent) and plain old "I did not get my best shit week 3 of the patch, what the fuck Blizz??"

All of this comes back to: This game is being mismanaged into the ground by morons.

[apustus]

Also ITT: Measuring how "good" you are by the metric of SIMDPS or trivial farm bosses.

[Brubear]

Hand of rag, blessed blade, miss placed servo arm, harbinger of doom.

In classic there are a number of "single items" with low drop chance that do way way more than just add 30% to a chars dps.

I literally have no dog in this fight as I haven't done content above LFR in quite awhile, but the situations you're using as an example aren't exactly comparable.

All of those items you're describing drop from one place, so anyone who had those items was doing the same content as you and it all came down to RNG luck with the loot table. The item was the same for everyone and only came from that raid.

The Corruption/Titanforging system means that you could be someone who is working towards AotC/top-50 mythic clears and completely decked out in mythic-only gear but doing less DPS than someone like me who never even set foot in anything harder than LFR or heroic dungeons because I got really lucky with some Corruption rolls and have a few items that are better than anything you have.

I think that's the disconnect that people have issue with. It's not a matter of "you're screwed if it doesn't drop for you", it's a matter of "it can still drop for you but you're still lagging because someone who doesn't even raid got lucky and the same item only way better". The Corruption effects are so strong that someone who got really lucky with a rank 3 Corruption item dropping for them in normal/heroic can suddenly perform better than someone who is 6/12 mythic.

The biggest flaw with the Corruption system is you have multiple ranks of the corruption effects which can drop from multiple sources/difficulties. The effects should have had 1 rank. It might have led to the same situation that they allegedly removed set bonuses for (people running all difficulties for a chance at the effect), but that's still better than the crapshoot that is the current corruption system.

[Sanguinerd]

100% guaranteed LFR hero/WQ expert lmao

nah, but i do laugh my ass off at people like you shitting on LFR

[Mightytasty]

Game would be boring AF if everything was deterministic with a currency. My bags are dripping with corruption gear, swapping them in and out of fights is new and interesting. There’s so many sources of corruption its insane.

[xiloclipse]

I think there's a bit of BS whining with the OP.

Being a great (PVE) player, often means playing well in instance, but also means doing the work to get the gear.

In this case, certainly there is luck when it comes to the weekly chest.

However, I'm sorry, did blizzard suddenly cap how many keys you can do in a week? I realize it's only 465, and the corruption isn't 100% like the chest, but there's nothing stopping you from grinding out a very solid gear set with corruption from +15s.

Certainly not 'so hard' that your bad luck on weekly chests keeps you from getting into a +15. That's laughable.

I'm certain as a 'good player' you're also hitting that second weekly chest that has a 100% chance to corrupt, since it's just so damn hard to get rating up these days... Maybe you don't push that high, but even 1800 will give you 475 azerite and 465 corrupted.

Like come on. You don't like other players getting lucky, fine. But there are a TON of systems in the game right now to get ahead, and counter bad luck. It might not be as good as the great item some noob got, but the idea that you can't level the playing field a bit is absurd.

Hell, if you were such a hardcore key guy, take some of that sale money and throw it towards some BoEs.

[Talyn]

All this crap started when they added achievements and various epeen meters. Gearscore addon appeared ages ago, in Wotlk. Now its RIO score, same shit. If you want avoid this, make own groups, join guild and make some friends ingame.

[kaminaris]

I think people simply do not understand how much better this is than TF. The whole "points" system with corruption is pretty brilliant really and DPS/Corruption is a great balancing target overall.

I think there are 3 real flaws here:

• Corruption downsides can be more easily ignored by specific classes/specs/roles, which allows more benefit stacking than intended.
• System is complicated and misunderstood by players, which can lead to a lot of frustration.
• Whole ilvl system is somewhat broken now. Blizz told us how they want ilvl to matter and then went on and shat on it.

The rest are just balance issues that will be fixed (to some extent) and plain old "I did not get my best shit week 3 of the patch, what the fuck Blizz??"

But that ultimately means it is worse than titanforging. Because TF:

1. Was damn simple
2. Did not grant significant power to one item - this really should be avoided in MMOs. (+20 ilvl TF was like 1% dps increase)
3. ilvl mattered.

But people with OCD complained so we got corruption.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind either system because gear is JUST a tool for me. Couldn't care less about it as long as I can get it relatively fast to down the bosses.
And both were still FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAR better system than legiondaries. The only time I raged and flamed left and right about gear in WoW.

[Mightytasty]

The biggest flaw with the Corruption system is you have multiple ranks of the corruption effects which can drop from multiple sources/difficulties. The effects should have had 1 rank. It might have led to the same situation that they allegedly removed set bonuses for (people running all difficulties for a chance at the effect), but that's still better than the crapshoot that is the current corruption system.

I don’t see that as a flaw. Each rank does the same amount of damage per point of corruption. If anything, the Rank 1 traits are more desirable later on because they can be used more flexibly with other corruption effects.

The actual flaw with the system was imbalance among the different effects, and Blizzard didn’t test at ALL. This led to infinite stars/echoing void/twilight devastation being double or triple the power per point of corruption of the other effects. This problem compounded with higher Ranks. Rank 3 infinite stars was 9x more powerful than Rank 1 void ritual (maybe more), where it should have only been 3x more powerful. Had all of the effects been balanced, the rank system wouldn’t have been an issue.

[Stickiler]

The Corruption/Titanforging system means that you could be someone who is working towards AotC/top-50 mythic clears and completely decked out in mythic-only gear but doing less DPS than someone like me who never even set foot in anything harder than LFR or heroic dungeons because I got really lucky with some Corruption rolls and have a few items that are better than anything you have.

This isn't true, even in the slightest. If you're doing constant clears, and are decked out in mythic gear, you'll far eclipse anyone who's just doing LFR/heroic dungeons. All corruption effects have a DPS-per-point value, and those values are close enough together that it's literally impossible to eclipse the 40-60ilvl gap between heroic dungeons and full mythic gear, because that mythic geared person will have full corruption gear up to their cap(which will be higher than someone doing heroic dungeons because mythic healers are significantly stronger, and thus the negative effects are easier to handle).

Especially now that most corruption effects scale with the ilvl of the gear, so a mythic piece with the exact same corruption as an LFR or Heroic dungeon piece will deal significantly more damage, even if it's not quite the BiS.

[Mightytasty]

This isn't true, even in the slightest. If you're doing constant clears, and are decked out in mythic gear, you'll far eclipse anyone who's just doing LFR/heroic dungeons. All corruption effects have a DPS-per-point value, and those values are close enough together that it's literally impossible to eclipse the 40-60ilvl gap between heroic dungeons and full mythic gear, because that mythic geared person will have full corruption gear up to their cap(which will be higher than someone doing heroic dungeons because mythic healers are significantly stronger, and thus the negative effects are easier to handle).

Especially now that most corruption effects scale with the ilvl of the gear, so a mythic piece with the exact same corruption as an LFR or Heroic dungeon piece will deal significantly more damage, even if it's not quite the BiS.

Yeah, I don’t think that people fully understand that corruption effects scale with item level. A lot of people seem to think that a 415 world quest infinite stars is doing as much damage as their 460 infinite stars, and that’s simply not the case.

I don’t necessarily blame the community’s confusion however because it’s not explained in-game.

[Doffen]

The thing is, it's not 10% variance at the moment. EVEN taking the only last big bad - Twilight Devastation - yes it sure looks impressive there on meters, but it's not a free effect, as in the guy who does not have it will simply have other corruption items that are not 0 DPS, such as various stat corruptions for example that don't even appear on meters themselves.

That's the main point people seem to keep missing. EVEN Twilight Devastation is not some free 12% or how much it does during the run, when you pit it against other corruptions at same level in M+ it will be like maybe 5% free damage and pure RNG at that too.

People really need to wake up and realize damage/corruption is the name of the game not just how pretty shit looks in Details.

I agree with this sentiment. I had and used EV rank 3 before the nerf, and some in the raid was like omg your corruption is doing so much damage, just to ignore the corrupted gear they had themselves. It was not 12% free damage like you say, it was maybe 4% more damage than their own corruption.

Now I don't use EV anymore, still topping meters and the others are not mentioning it anymore either. I still want stars for the ST fights though! I use 425 bracers with TD rank 3 and while it can be awesome, there are much more rng to it compared to EV. One fight TD was 3% of my damage(Xanesh), on another it was 15% (hivemind), obviously being a good pick for aoe/cleave.

Granted, there are rng to corruption, for it to drop but also for it to proc. And while Infinite Stars stands out on the single targets fight, it is starting to be okay balanced overall.

[Sansnom]

the game was much better before, when the mithic + did not exist and the reputations with tabards were raised, besides the raider io did not exist.

Now the itemlvl is no longer enough, on top of that you have to have raider io punctuation .... to be able to enter a group for anything insignificant,like an easy warfront hc....

Don't blame the tools. Blame the people. It has always been like. Inflated entry requirements has always been around.

[Voidwielder]

[*]Corruption downsides can be more easily ignored by specific classes/specs/roles, which allows more benefit stacking than intended.

This is my major problem with this system. As a Disc Priest who likes doing damage in M+ I run high Infinite Stars and I also now have a Mage with quite decent Infinite Stars set (just a scrub alt I play around in lower keys) and the difference is immense in how I can handle the Thing From Beyond and lesser annoying aspects of it.

And there definitely is something wrong with the game if it does not obviously translate and indicate to you what XYZ does.

[Toby451]

I think people simply do not understand how much better this is than TF. The whole "points" system with corruption is pretty brilliant really and DPS/Corruption is a great balancing target overall.

I think there are 3 real flaws here:

• Corruption downsides can be more easily ignored by specific classes/specs/roles, which allows more benefit stacking than intended.
• System is complicated and misunderstood by players, which can lead to a lot of frustration.
• Whole ilvl system is somewhat broken now. Blizz told us how they want ilvl to matter and then went on and shat on it.

The rest are just balance issues that will be fixed (to some extent) and plain old "I did not get my best shit week 3 of the patch, what the fuck Blizz??"

Ilvl does still matter though. A 475 piece with rank 3 of your BiS corrupt is still better than a 430 piece with rank 3 of your BiS corrupt.



99% of the issues with the corruption system goes away if everything dropped corrupted. It would be very easy to get your favorite corruption combinations on higher ilvl pieces.

Everyone crying they suck at dps "because I have bad luck" can finally use infinite stars for themselves and realize the memes are bullshit and it sucks 99% of the time and shut the fuck up about it.





I hate tin foil hate people pointing out MAU's for every decision they (Blizzard) make to seemingly time gate content but its really hard to ignore in this case. The corruption system could actually be fun but the absurdly low rates of corruptions is chopping the system down entirely at the knees. Which is sad because the overwhelming negative feedback could turn positive with one simple change. Now because of the negative feedback they are going to be less likely to experiment with something crazy like this again that could be infinitely better with one tiny change. Truly a damn shame.

[MoanaLisa]

It really doesnt matter how good you are anymore.

It never really did.

Luck with drops has always been a big part of the game. Yeah, the game is more casual now. It's a mass-market game that's trying to hang on to as many players as possible. Emphasizing elite skills isn't the way to get there no matter how much people pine for it.

You have a point about RNG. I think there's too much but people have been complaining about RNG since day one. Big raid groups in Vanilla with stingy drops. Your priest getting strength gear. Nothing new. Just different things in different times.

- - - Updated - - -

the game was much better before, when the mithic + did not exist and the reputations with tabards were raised, besides the raider io did not exist.

Because GearScore was so much better. Memories are remarkably short here.

[ArkantosChampion]

That image doesn't even capture the full absurdity of the RNG involved with IS.

I have a 475 r3 IS and my damage swings from pull to pull. One pull in 4 minutes it'll do 2mil, the next pull it'll do over 6mil. I've had my r3 beat OFTEN by people with only a r2.

The fact a corruption can swing from 2mil to 6mil from pull to pull based on nothing other than RNG is absurd.

Playing your class doesn't even matter anymore. How you parse this tier, at least single target, is hope you get the kill on a good IS rng pull.

Sometimes you're doing 80k at 10% sometimes you're doing 70k based on nothing other than IS procs.

Yes, by the way, you correctly emphasized RNG itself in corrupted gear

[Azerox]

Indeed and this sucks.
Now everyone with a OP corruption does more dps then you.