WOLCEN : Lords of Mayhem (Indie ARPG)

[Tang0]

I would not want to see modified offline characters in my online mode also. Dont forget the game will still be developed and trading will be probably added later. Who knows if they wont also make some ladders or some sort of competition between players? And why you need to have two characters simultaneously? Either play offline mode or online, whats the problem? Just dont tell me you cant wait like 2-3 days to fix the login problems.

I see your point, and I wouldn’t Want to play with cheaters either. Even if they add trading and ladders they would be better off going with Poe system of separate servers anyways.

Judging by my exp playing with other people in borderlands throughout the years - cheaters who go online in non-competitive games are few and far between. And that game obviously had no reals issues with having characters be usable both online and offline.

Also, if you want to even somewhere down the line consider the possibility of playing with other playing offline is not even an option, so if you want to play now, you are kinda forced to make an offline char. Which I don’t feel like doing personally, since it is pointless, therefore I can’t currently play the game

I don’t think the argument “don’t tell me you can wait for a few days” is fair though. By releasing a game which you charge money for, you kinda take on yourself some responsibility to deliver.

[Gorsameth]

Im playing atm offline mode because I dont see reason to play online when theres no trading and still the game feels not responsible. Im not sure what causing this but sometimes when Im trying to use a skill (for example Juggernaut) nothing is happening and I have to spam the button to fire it off and this can just ruin combat experience. Sometimes Im right clicking items in inventory to sold them and every few items there a problem that I have to move mouse outside the item and again mouseover it to sell it because again nothing is happening.

I like the skill system, pasives, gameplay is fun but definitely it needs more technical polish.

Yeah right click selling is kinda buggy. As for your responsiveness, I wonder if what your experiencing isn't simply animation lock. You can't use another skill or drink a potion while your currently in an animation. So you need to wait for it to finish and then you can use Juggernaut.
I run into this myself aswell from time to time when I try to drink or Juggernaut while spamming Kratos chains.

[Baconeggcheese]

Yeah right click selling is kinda buggy. As for your responsiveness, I wonder if what your experiencing isn't simply animation lock. You can't use another skill or drink a potion while your currently in an animation. So you need to wait for it to finish and then you can use Juggernaut.
I run into this myself aswell from time to time when I try to drink or Juggernaut while spamming Kratos chains.

Its probably definitely the animation lock, there's a lot of that that does make the game feel unresponsive. Honestly think they could do with tweaking all of that a bit and changing the rules on some things. It reminds me a lot of WoW putting everything on the GCD, it just feels bad and makes combat less fluid.

[Tang0]

Its probably definitely the animation lock, there's a lot of that that does make the game feel unresponsive. Honestly think they could do with tweaking all of that a bit and changing the rules on some things. It reminds me a lot of WoW putting everything on the GCD, it just feels bad and makes combat less fluid.

I’ve noticed combat becoming much more enjoyable and responsive, at least as a melee, when you activate the super speed shrine. Maybe because there’s less time spent per animation.

[Majestic12]

Yeah, but you just come off as an angry little man. “You people try to ruin everyone’s fun”. Or my favourite : “you have no idea how game design works, but I, on the other hand, can tell you about the game’s clear intended experience”. Strong arguments.

Didn’t think I would have to clarify this, but I do not advocate for cheating. I simply see no reason for the game’s separation between online and offline characters.

It is a pretty redundant concept, leveling 2 characters simultaneously, with only one of them ever being useful.

Also, I would be very interested in hearing, how some Billy could ruin your trade experience? There’s no forced interaction in this game, neither there is a community based trade platform. Do they forcefully join your party and drop overpowered items in your lap, while maniacally laughing, because he purposefully ruined your fun?

You do advocate for cheating if you want to eliminate the only thing protecting legit characters from cheaters destroying the trading market. The moment character files are stored locally Wolcen has lost all control of what people do with their toons. It's obvious that they want to, and 100% deserve to keep that control for their online platform in order to protect the integrity of the trading market and/or possible future online features.

If you really were an anti-cheater, you'd advocate for protecting legit characters, not tear the wall down. Grim Dawn is an outlier in this genre because they don't give a damn. We've seen the "offline toon" issue ever since Diablo 1 where they ruined the game online. Then came Diablo 2 which beautifully fixed this issue by protecting battle.net, and any cheats/hacks that popped up were dealt with. That is protecting the integrity of the game.

Cheaters destroy the market by polluting it with spawned items. Saying "it doesn't affect you" is one of the most bullshit and overused excuses for ARPGs.

And trust me, if I could force Grim Dawn to have an online, non-cheating mode I definitely would. They chose to limit the scope of their own game drastically. They choked.

Grim Dawn is just another single player game for me. That's the only way I can protect myself from cheaters like you.

[Karlz0rz]

I feel bad for them having all of these issues at launch. They are probably losing a lot of interested players, just because of the server problems.
Haven't been able to play at all today, and it's a Saturday!
Hope they fix it soon .

[Baconeggcheese]

I’ve noticed combat becoming much more enjoyable and responsive, at least as a melee, when you activate the super speed shrine. Maybe because there’s less time spent per animation.

Definitely, there's a lot of moments where the attack ends on certain attacks but the animation isn't completely finished so it feels like there's a small lag. Or even the opposite where there's a windup before the attack that also adds a small lag. If they cut those moments or made it so we could animation cancel during those last little bits I bet people would feel its much more responsive.

[FlubberPuddy]

I've been enjoying the game a lot. This is my first foray into ARPG games, I've heard of Diablo but never got into it (played a little bit of D3 but it feels too old - it is). PoE just doesn't grab me, I grabbed it when it was really early in development but the aesthetic is crappy to me although their gigantic skill tree was and is one of the most innovative and attracting things to me in the ARPG genre.

Wolcen feels like a nice middle-ground between the two. It feels more dangerous than D3, but less complex than PoE. Also the graphics are amazing, it looks like a modern ARPG for PCs. I've been enjoying the story a lot, but am still pretty early into it (just got to first town and did some of the area after it).

I only got to play the online for maybe an hour or so and it sucks they're having server issues, but I am happy to be able to play the game in offline mode. It's giving me a chance to try a different kind of character than I will play online (also allows me to learn more about the game while waiting for servers to come online).

I feel people who say "game doesn't work"/"I can't play the game" simply because online does not work are being unfair. You can literally play the game and it is working with some bugs here and there but it's overall playable. Hence all the Twitch Streamers currently playing it in offline mode for hours upon hours.

To me, people are being immature when they keep posting comments/reviews about "game does not work". That is misleading. It's got a working offline mode. Would these people have preferred if it was like D3 and there was no offline mode to even play? It almost seems like it.

[kail]

You do advocate for cheating if you want to eliminate the only thing protecting legit characters from cheaters destroying the trading market. The moment character files are stored locally Wolcen has lost all control of what people do with their toons. It's obvious that they want to, and 100% deserve to keep that control for their online platform in order to protect the integrity of the trading market and/or possible future online features.

If you really were an anti-cheater, you'd advocate for protecting legit characters, not tear the wall down. Grim Dawn is an outlier in this genre because they don't give a damn. We've seen the "offline toon" issue ever since Diablo 1 where they ruined the game online. Then came Diablo 2 which beautifully fixed this issue by protecting battle.net, and any cheats/hacks that popped up were dealt with. That is protecting the integrity of the game.

Cheaters destroy the market by polluting it with spawned items. Saying "it doesn't affect you" is one of the most bullshit and overused excuses for ARPGs.

And trust me, if I could force Grim Dawn to have an online, non-cheating mode I definitely would. They chose to limit the scope of their own game drastically. They choked.

Grim Dawn is just another single player game for me. That's the only way I can protect myself from cheaters like you.

The "every one" wins solution would be implementing ladder and non-ladder characters. I agree there needs to be a protected economy but there is also no reason why two players can't play together because they don't want to be a part of the ladder seasons.

[XDurionX]

I've been enjoying the game a lot. This is my first foray into ARPG games, I've heard of Diablo but never got into it (played a little bit of D3 but it feels too old - it is). PoE just doesn't grab me, I grabbed it when it was really early in development but the aesthetic is crappy to me although their gigantic skill tree was and is one of the most innovative and attracting things to me in the ARPG genre.

Wolcen feels like a nice middle-ground between the two. It feels more dangerous than D3, but less complex than PoE. Also the graphics are amazing, it looks like a modern ARPG for PCs. I've been enjoying the story a lot, but am still pretty early into it (just got to first town and did some of the area after it).

I only got to play the online for maybe an hour or so and it sucks they're having server issues, but I am happy to be able to play the game in offline mode. It's giving me a chance to try a different kind of character than I will play online (also allows me to learn more about the game while waiting for servers to come online).

I feel people who say "game doesn't work"/"I can't play the game" simply because online does not work are being unfair. You can literally play the game and it is working with some bugs here and there but it's overall playable. Hence all the Twitch Streamers currently playing it in offline mode for hours upon hours.

To me, people are being immature when they keep posting comments/reviews about "game does not work". That is misleading. It's got a working offline mode. Would these people have preferred if it was like D3 and there was no offline mode to even play? It almost seems like it.

But the game IS not working. I am not interested in levelling a useless char. I want to play with my friends. Maintenance now is 18 hours, on a saturday, 2 days after launch. They were clearly not ready for releasing this product. The server issues are only part of all the shit that is not working, there's a wealth of gamebreaking bugs. They are a small studio of 13 people, but if they are bold enough to release it, there's nothing immature about expecting it to work.

EDIT: We continue our efforts day and night with our partner to bring back Online servers. We can already share with you that the servers will not come back Online before tomorrow 12 AM UTC. We will keep you informed if anything changes. Thank you for your patience and understanding. https://twitter.com/wolcengame?lang=de

Okay, now it's a refund for me. Maybe I'll try it again in a year when it's on sale for 5 € or something.

[Crissi]

Well hit my first wall. Can get past p1 for Act 2 boss but p2, it kills me. Story mode seems a wee bit overtuned tbh. I have a kick ass unique weapon sitting in my stash because I'm not a 2h melee user -_-

Server issues are definitely wonky. Years off MMO and Diablo server issues has trained my patience but I can see how many people see this as unacceptable. I hope The game can overcome this rather bad launch, because a lot of the core is great.

[Beastiel]

i'd agree that the people angry the servers don't work and that the game is buggy are just impatient and immature but then i remembered why i decided to buy this game in the first place. When friends and youtubers talk about a new ARPG launching my first thought is generally that playing it at launch sounds like a waste of time, if it's worth playing at all, might as well wait half a year or so when all the kinks are worked out, feedback implemented and new content is flowing out. So why did i decide to pick up Wolcen on on launch day? I heard people saying they've been following this for years, i heard Rhykker going on about how this has been in production since 2015, about how it completely shattered kickstarter expectations.

I felt like maybe after 5 years of development (well, 5 years ago we got our first gameplay footage i mean), this game would show classic blizzard level polish and have some awesome systems fully implemented. I didn't expect the game would go straight to 21+ hour maintenance or that I'd be chased around by buggy invulnerable bats while errors repeatedly kick me out of the game.

I don't think I really care enough about this game to be mad, but people definitely have a right to be.

[Tang0]

You do advocate for cheating if you want to eliminate the only thing protecting legit characters from cheaters destroying the trading market. The moment character files are stored locally Wolcen has lost all control of what people do with their toons. It's obvious that they want to, and 100% deserve to keep that control for their online platform in order to protect the integrity of the trading market and/or possible future online features.

If you really were an anti-cheater, you'd advocate for protecting legit characters, not tear the wall down. Grim Dawn is an outlier in this genre because they don't give a damn. We've seen the "offline toon" issue ever since Diablo 1 where they ruined the game online. Then came Diablo 2 which beautifully fixed this issue by protecting battle.net, and any cheats/hacks that popped up were dealt with. That is protecting the integrity of the game.

Cheaters destroy the market by polluting it with spawned items. Saying "it doesn't affect you" is one of the most bullshit and overused excuses for ARPGs.

And trust me, if I could force Grim Dawn to have an online, non-cheating mode I definitely would. They chose to limit the scope of their own game drastically. They choked.

Grim Dawn is just another single player game for me. That's the only way I can protect myself from cheaters like you.

Well, you are clearly but hurt about grim dawn, but unfortunately I can’t share your sentiment, as I don’t play that game since I didn’t like it at all.

You are getting wound up like there’s some mythical “player economy” based on trading. Relax, this is not Poe and probably never will be. This game, as i’ve said before, is currently more like a borderlands. You play solo, get loot, when your friends are on or you get bored you play with some other people. Enjoying the game for what it is.

Now, if you could please tell me with a simple example how some random Joe could ruin yours or my gaming experience, I would more than happily change my mind.

Also, please do not kid yourself about “online only features protecting players from cheating”. If there were anything to gain from cheating in online mode - people would be on top of it and it would crack wide open within hours. Especially considering the amount of attention to detail they put into their netcode.

[Gravity2015]

OT but, how's that game going? It was another i had my eyes on and was impressed by the choices made there.

All in all, both of these games finally show how changing things and introducing actual depth in the systems makes for a completely better experience.

- - - Updated - - -



You cannot skip defenses. There's quite a leap from everything in act 1 and the last boss - in beta it was just brutal, then they nerfed to a point it was too simple and now i have yet to try it. Anyway, most of the fight is learning the patterns and basically surviving. You cannot really facetank it, it won't explode, it's a long fight. As long you don't get oneshot by pesky stuff, avoid anything red and chip his life away.

And save dodges in phase 3. You know what i mean. EDIT: in beta i was using a cold spells/melee hybrid, so never used a shield.

I absolutely wrecked him first try with pistol (level 11 yellow i had stashed lol) and a shield.. - i guess pure bow was the issue

Now if only we could get logged online and continue with A2 but - thats at a standstill until morning

[Liftbrul]

It looks like a cheap D3 knock-off and somehow even more soulless. I'm actually amazed they managed that. But I suppose looks can be deceiving, and I guess there's a chance (albeit vanishingly small) a good game hides underneath it all.

[kail]

I know that "Blizzard bad" at the moment, but how can anyone seriously be supporting this game? It's almost pixel for pixel a D3 clone, another in a long line of appalling rip-off video games following in the footsteps of crap like Paladins.. It looks more like an HD texture pack for D3 than a full game release, and the bits that aren't ripped from D3 are straight up ripped from Grim Dawn (the in-game UI) or PoE (flask system).

Ripping the good parts out of multiple games is good. It takes the great visuals of D3 while implementing stat mechanics and a talent tree that requires some thought to make a fun and/or optimal build. Last I played D3, completing a set bonus did most of the Job for you along with select legendaries. The character progression and stat mechanics are very shallow in D3 and so far doesn't seem to be the case in Wolven.

[Cloudoo]

Now, if you could please tell me with a simple example how some random Joe could ruin yours or my gaming experience, I would more than happily change my mind.

Edited characters could easily ruin the longevity of the online game right now if you could edit them considering the devs want to add seasons like PoE and D3 and leaderboards as well, they're working on a trade api right now too to make it easier to find items and trade with other people online.
A decision like that could easily destroy the future content plans they have for the game when it comes to online play because I'd assume they still want to implement player created dungeons, global leaderboards and dungeon challenges that were stretch goals on their kickstarter.

[Yayeet]

I feel bad for them having all of these issues at launch. They are probably losing a lot of interested players, just because of the server problems.
Haven't been able to play at all today, and it's a Saturday!
Hope they fix it soon .

Players that genuinely want to play, will wait. The ones that are refunding are the ones that probably weren't even sure they wanted to play to begin with.

[OBM]

Are there casters in this game? I see people only ever playing melee

[FlubberPuddy]

But the game IS not working.

Then how are people playing the game? How are streamers with tens of thousands of viewers playing the game in front of a live audience who are also either playing along or interested in the game?

- - - Updated - - -

Are there casters in this game? I see people only ever playing melee

Yeah, it's just melee is satisfying. But magic is satisfying too, I was trying it out in offline and it actually made me want to make a full on magic caster (I was a half melee/magic build in trying it out).

It's cool because I originally want to go melee for online (want to play tankiest tank tank ever) but there's abilities in the big poe style tree that basically can make you tanky as a caster too, I am going to try that next after I finish up my work for the day