Is Classic too easy?

[d00mh4cker]

Doesn't contradict my point.
All hardcore and many midcore guilds have cleared BWL.
Most "regular" guilds don't even bother to log, and those mostly haven't cleared it and will need some measure of progression to do so.

It's just like... "normal" difficulty level raid in current WoW. So basically exactly what I said. Duh.

My friends guild, fairly casual i would say, they only log for raids more or less, cleared it within 8 hours of entering. 12 or so wipes i think.

[Echocho]

My friends guild, fairly casual i would say, they only log for raids more or less, cleared it within 8 hours of entering. 12 or so wipes i think.

I wouldn't bother responding to that one, he's just moving goal posts.

[d00mh4cker]

Things nostalgic vanilla players say:

"Classic is so hardcore even dungeons and leveling is hard"
-Players roflstomps all dungeons without tank or healer. Mages pull like 30-40 mobs and blizzard them down.

"Molten Core is so much harder then retail wow"
- MC was cleared in minutes without even having all at max level. No gear at all. No prep what so ever.

"Ofcourse, they have been practicing for 15 YEARS!!!!!!!11111"
- Casual guilds clears it in hours.

"Yes, its 1.12, you stupid, wait for BWL idiot!!!!"
- BWL cleared in minutes

"Ofcourse, they have been practicing for 15 YEARS!!!!!!!11111"
- Thousands of more or less casual guilds clears it within hours or first day. All guilds who give it a try clears it first reset.

"Yes, its 1.12, you stupid, wait for AQ40 you idiot!!!!"


Yes, we will see

[George Costanza]

its not too easy or too hard its about right.

[clevin]

So what if it is? Aside from the fact that it's silly to judge anything (retail or classic) by the top guilds... so what if Classic is easy? If you don't play classic, you have no real reason to care, you're just here to troll and poke at people. If you do play classic... this is pretty much what Vanilla was like. No, it's not precisely what it was like since BWL was released earlier than 1.12, but it's in the ballpark. If you never played vanilla and expected something harder and don't really like how classic plays, fine. Quit. But they're not going to change the game materially until at least a year after Naxx. At this point, the game is what it is.

Classic - and vanilla - had a few things that some people really liked:

1) a long and reasonably varied leveling process that introduced you to a big world. That leveling process also had some challenges and people tended to group up for some of the elite quests, leading to some socializing.

2) A pretty wide variety of 5 mans at and near 60 that tended to feel like real places. BRD for example, feels like a real fortress in the heart of the mountain.

3) A talent system and in general a class system that had real tradeoffs and where everyone wasn't the same.

4) A gearing system where you could target upgrades, get them and be done either forever or until the next raid, if you raided.

Is it perfect? Hell no. The specs, for all of the talents, were sometimes overly simple. I mean, frost mage spams 1 spell (Frostbolt) in much of MC with occasional use of other spells. The lack of dual specs makes it inconvenient to change specs at all, much less within a raid and it can get very expensive. That's a real issue for tanks and healers, too.

And there are QOL issues that could be revised - hearthstone CD, mail delivery time - with no real impact on the game.

Despite all of this, some of us like it better than retail which has strayed very far the any semblance of an RPG and where you're more of a hamster on an endless gearing wheel while also being showered with 'epics' yet subject to a gearing system that has so many knobs and levers that you need simulation software to even figure out upgrades.

But some people like retail. And that's fine. I just have no idea why either group gives a fuck about the other.

[d00mh4cker]

So what if it is? Aside from the fact that it's silly to judge anything (retail or classic) by the top guilds... so what if Classic is easy? If you don't play classic, you have no real reason to care, you're just here to troll and poke at people. If you do play classic... this is pretty much what Vanilla was like. No, it's not precisely what it was like since BWL was released earlier than 1.12, but it's in the ballpark. If you never played vanilla and expected something harder and don't really like how classic plays, fine. Quit. But they're not going to change the game materially until at least a year after Naxx. At this point, the game is what it is.

Classic - and vanilla - had a few things that some people really liked:

1) a long and reasonably varied leveling process that introduced you to a big world. That leveling process also had some challenges and people tended to group up for some of the elite quests, leading to some socializing.

2) A pretty wide variety of 5 mans at and near 60 that tended to feel like real places. BRD for example, feels like a real fortress in the heart of the mountain.

3) A talent system and in general a class system that had real tradeoffs and where everyone wasn't the same.

4) A gearing system where you could target upgrades, get them and be done either forever or until the next raid, if you raided.

Is it perfect? Hell no. The specs, for all of the talents, were sometimes overly simple. I mean, frost mage spams 1 spell (Frostbolt) in much of MC with occasional use of other spells. The lack of dual specs makes it inconvenient to change specs at all, much less within a raid and it can get very expensive. That's a real issue for tanks and healers, too.

And there are QOL issues that could be revised - hearthstone CD, mail delivery time - with no real impact on the game.

Despite all of this, some of us like it better than retail which has strayed very far the any semblance of an RPG and where you're more of a hamster on an endless gearing wheel while also being showered with 'epics' yet subject to a gearing system that has so many knobs and levers that you need simulation software to even figure out upgrades.

But some people like retail. And that's fine. I just have no idea why either group gives a fuck about the other.

I understand 100% why someone would rather play classic then retail. It is so much more immersive then retail atm and not as cluttered as retail feels.
It's more a MMO then retail i feel.

I play neither but I understand 100%.

[Ssateneth]

It's not supposed to be a challenge. It's supposed to be as close to faithful as the real 1.12.1 game back in the day. People were stupid back then. They didn't know how the game works, they didn't know the fights, and they weren't as competitive as they are now. The content has been out for over 10 years now. All the content and fights are known, the best path to take is already set in stone.

[RobertMugabe]

Honestly, people who are saying that classic raids are easier than LFR are just stupid.

I mean yeah sure they aren't as hard as let's say mythic raids and yes it's true that some guilds with years of practice could do BWL in less than an hour.

However for the average guild and even for semi-hardcore guilds it is actually quite difficult. It might not take months for a guild to finish BWL, but most will struggle for a weeks at least. The raids are a decent enough challenge that require voice communications, proper raid leadership and people who know what they have to do.

Srsly half of this thread are people who seem to never have played classic besides maybe the first few levels. You're basically seeing what guilds on the level of Method, Limit and so on can do and assume that they're just casuals so every guild is gonna roflstomp everything too.

[mhdoe]

it always was

[Barzotti]

Honestly, people who are saying that classic raids are easier than LFR are just stupid.

I mean yeah sure they aren't as hard as let's say mythic raids and yes it's true that some guilds with years of practice could do BWL in less than an hour.

However for the average guild and even for semi-hardcore guilds it is actually quite difficult. It might not take months for a guild to finish BWL, but most will struggle for a weeks at least. The raids are a decent enough challenge that require voice communications, proper raid leadership and people who know what they have to do.

Srsly half of this thread are people who seem to never have played classic besides maybe the first few levels. You're basically seeing what guilds on the level of Method, Limit and so on can do and assume that they're just casuals so every guild is gonna roflstomp everything too.

According to Warcraftlogs, 2211 guilds have cleared BWL four days after release. And it just takes into account the registered logs. So much for "actually quite difficult" and "struggle for weeks at least".

[potis]

You're basically seeing what guilds on the level of Method, Limit and so on can do and assume that they're just casuals so every guild is gonna roflstomp everything too.

Lol, actually comparing Method and Limit to a classic raider DDD

New levels, everyday.

[BaronRivendare]

Lol, actually comparing Method and Limit to a classic raider DDD

New levels, everyday.

WOW yeah Method and Limit are in an entire other universe compared to this easy content, that's almost insulting lol. That's why Method pretty much immediately quit playing after launch b/c it's basically a meme game.

[hlud]

Things nostalgic vanilla players say:

"Classic is so hardcore even dungeons and leveling is hard"
-Players roflstomps all dungeons without tank or healer. Mages pull like 30-40 mobs and blizzard them down.

"Molten Core is so much harder then retail wow"
- MC was cleared in minutes without even having all at max level. No gear at all. No prep what so ever.

"Ofcourse, they have been practicing for 15 YEARS!!!!!!!11111"
- Casual guilds clears it in hours.

"Yes, its 1.12, you stupid, wait for BWL idiot!!!!"
- BWL cleared in minutes

"Ofcourse, they have been practicing for 15 YEARS!!!!!!!11111"
- Thousands of more or less casual guilds clears it within hours or first day. All guilds who give it a try clears it first reset.

"Yes, its 1.12, you stupid, wait for AQ40 you idiot!!!!"


Yes, we will see

But that it was on 1.12.1 with no other changes is exactly why Classic is easy. I say this as someone who avoided Classic because of this nonsense.

[arkanon]

But that it was on 1.12.1 with no other changes is exactly why Classic is easy. I say this as someone who avoided Classic because of this nonsense.

Wrong - Vanilla was easy too.

[clevin]

Wrong - Vanilla was easy too.

So? Why is difficulty held up as a good thing?

[hlud]

1) a long and reasonably varied leveling process that introduced you to a big world. That leveling process also had some challenges and people tended to group up for some of the elite quests, leading to some socializing.

2) A pretty wide variety of 5 mans at and near 60 that tended to feel like real places. BRD for example, feels like a real fortress in the heart of the mountain.

3) A talent system and in general a class system that had real tradeoffs and where everyone wasn't the same.

4) A gearing system where you could target upgrades, get them and be done either forever or until the next raid, if you raided.

I have yet to see a reason why these should only exist as they once were in vanilla WoW. When i first entered Blackrock Depths on a private server, even after completing it on retail back in BC, when i first started, that experience stood out. But the #nochanges community creates a false dichotomy in that if you want massive dungeons with different paths, you can only get the ones that were already made in vanilla WoW. And if you want new dungeons you can only get the linear ones in retail. But, if you want new, massive dungeons? Sorry, that option is impossible!

Admittedly, Blizzard is just using the #nochanges community as an excuse for this laziness, but the #nochanges philosophy needs to be extinguished.

[hlud]

So? Why is difficulty held up as a good thing?

A game is generally enjoyable because of the thoughtful decision making involved. When you take that out, you take out the enjoyment. Now, a good story needs not thoughtful decision making, but, alas, i do not play a story.

[hlud]

So? Why is difficulty held up as a good thing?

A game is generally enjoyable because of the thoughtful decision making involved. When you take that out, you take out the enjoyment. Now, a good story needs not thoughtful decision making, but, alas, i do not play a story.

[clevin]

I have yet to see a reason why these should only exist as they once were in vanilla WoW. When i first entered Blackrock Depths on a private server, even after completing it on retail back in BC, when i first started, that experience stood out. But the #nochanges community creates a false dichotomy in that if you want massive dungeons with different paths, you can only get the ones that were already made in vanilla WoW. And if you want new dungeons you can only get the linear ones in retail. But, if you want new, massive dungeons? Sorry, that option is impossible!

Admittedly, Blizzard is just using the #nochanges community as an excuse for this laziness, but the #nochanges philosophy needs to be extinguished.

No, it doesn't. Classic is intended as a reasonably close recreation of vanilla. Not something more. If you don't like it, go to a pserver.

Now... if it was a year after Naxx? I might agree. But expecting Classic to be anything other than a close Vanilla clone at this point is just delusional.

[hlud]

So? Why is difficulty held up as a good thing?

Generally, a game's enjoyment derives from thoughtful decision making. A good story needs not thoughtful decision making, but, alas, i do not 'play' a story.