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  1. #501
    Gotta be fair.
    Red Ajah has good reason to exist. Mad men wielding such power is damn frightening.

  2. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Yeah I sure believe it's a joke from someone who actually thinks it's good to be red ajah. You're utterly pathetic and very clearly have limited knowledge of the series.
    It was obviously a joke. The red ajah has nothing to do with it, not sure how you're making these connections.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    If they change characters for no reason then it deserves to fail.
    One thing that should be remembered is that most of the characters are still teenagers when this all begins.
    Characters will have to change though, they always do when adapting a work.

  3. #503
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Yeah I sure believe it's a joke from someone who actually thinks it's good to be red ajah. You're utterly pathetic and very clearly have limited knowledge of the series.
    Why do you have aUhh a hard boner for the reds? Ya they can be bit by (most are) but being a red isn’t a bad thing In of it self even jorden said as much according to the quote a few pages back.

  4. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Why do you have aUhh a hard boner for the reds? Ya they can be bit by (most are) but being a red isn’t a bad thing In of it self even jorden said as much according to the quote a few pages back.
    Because they are sexist authoritarian scum. They literally ignore the power structure of the white tower and have their own authority aka the highest that they consider above the Amyrlin or at the very least on part. There is a reason so many black ajah members were from the red also Sanderson said it, the entire black tower storyline is from Sanderson with little to no influence from Jordan's notes. The red attracts the power hungry and the most abuse of the power tends to come from the reds. That ajah is the biggest reason the world at large has such a terrible impression of Aes Sedai.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    It was obviously a joke. The red ajah has nothing to do with it, not sure how you're making these connections.

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    Characters will have to change though, they always do when adapting a work.
    Because the showrunner has talked about being a red and being proud of it. Characters absolutely do not have to change when adapting a work. Choosing to do so is because small minded fools can't stand their own stamp not being on a product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    If they change characters for no reason then it deserves to fail.
    One thing that should be remembered is that most of the characters are still teenagers when this all begins.
    I would say young adults probably, the series takes place over 2 maybe 3 years it's hard to nail down exact timelines with the constant shifting of viewpoints and time flow changes such as the trip to Toman Head. Early 20s is fine for casting since they for the most part won't change over the decade it would take to do the show right. Of course since we are seeing casting for TGH already for the first season they absolutely will not do it right as if we didn't already know that from the casting.

  5. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Because they are sexist authoritarian scum. They literally ignore the power structure of the white tower and have their own authority aka the highest that they consider above the Amyrlin or at the very least on part. There is a reason so many black ajah members were from the red also Sanderson said it, the entire black tower storyline is from Sanderson with little to no influence from Jordan's notes. The red attracts the power hungry and the most abuse of the power tends to come from the reds. That ajah is the biggest reason the world at large has such a terrible impression of Aes Sedai.

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    Because the showrunner has talked about being a red and being proud of it. Characters absolutely do not have to change when adapting a work. Choosing to do so is because small minded fools can't stand their own stamp not being on a product.

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    I would say young adults probably, the series takes place over 2 maybe 3 years it's hard to nail down exact timelines with the constant shifting of viewpoints and time flow changes such as the trip to Toman Head. Early 20s is fine for casting since they for the most part won't change over the decade it would take to do the show right. Of course since we are seeing casting for TGH already for the first season they absolutely will not do it right as if we didn't already know that from the casting.
    The course correction for the reds started well before Sanderson came on as a writer. In fact, the plan for the Red Ajah's future - that they would be the Ajah to bond male channelers - develops in book 10 (chapter 22 if you're curious). Sanderson confirmed that Jordan didn't like that some fans were down on the Red Ajah. He really had no reason to lie, and it's very clear in reading his books that he worked hard to honor Jordan's wishes.

    You still haven't connected the dots between the showrunner supposedly liking the Red Ajah and the joke about making characters gay in response to a death threat. Can you actually source his apparent love-fest with the Red Ajah? I'm not finding any evidence to support the claim, and am starting to wonder if you invented it.

  6. #506
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xath View Post
    Because they are sexist authoritarian scum. They literally ignore the power structure of the white tower and have their own authority aka the highest that they consider above the Amyrlin or at the very least on part. There is a reason so many black ajah members were from the red also Sanderson said it, the entire black tower storyline is from Sanderson with little to no influence from Jordan's notes. The red attracts the power hungry and the most abuse of the power tends to come from the reds. That ajah is the biggest reason the world at large has such a terrible impression of Aes Sedai.
    The whole of the tower is Authorization with there all or nothing policy where ajah went into hiding to try and avoid them it wasn’t at all a red thing.

    Being sexist also kinda comes with the territory of having to deal with the chasing mad men as your job and even then not all reds are sexist and not all none reds aren’t.

    As far as having there own power structure ya it’s bad to ignore the actual ruling laws but The blues do the same things they just don’t have a bad person leading there breaking of the laws.

    As for the people who turned black it according to other people in here it was similar numbers to all the other ajah.

    I’m also not talking about the black tower and sanders stuff I mean where it says jorden tried to counter act then all being bad with characters like pevara.

    While I’m not trying to throw any Sade it kinda seems like you have missed the bigger picture of the reds because of a few(most names reds but few in total Count) key bad members.

  7. #507
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    I'd be more concerned that they aren't going to develop the most pivotal characters by utilizing the most controversial parts of their story arcs. Egwene being chained by the Seanchan is probably one of them, and Rand's relationship/marriage to Elayne, Min and Aviendha are probably two of the more prominent arcs, but I feel like the latter is actually easier to make work indirectly.

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Sure you can. But the biggest tv shows are american. Just the way it is. I am from germany and most european tv shows are shit. Don't get me wrong. It is weird that there are many different races in the rivers. I just don't care if they are black or white. It does simply not matter.

    Also: This particular part of the the overall story of the books is only apparent to people who read the books. TV shows have to have a way bigger audience. Look at game of thrones. Everyone i know watched it. I was the only one who read the books.

    As hard as it is, the fans of the books will not make or break the tvshow. New people to the IP will carry it. And for that they have to serve everyone.
    If new people won't watch it the tv show will fail.

    I hope everyone will give this TV show a chance no matter the race of the actors because they won't change it. If this tv show fails we won't get another one. So lets hope everything else is good for you all so you can overlook the skin color of the characters.
    But for some in the forums it is a already decided thing. You hate it. It could be apart from the skin color a perfect representation of the books. You will still hate it.
    Look at the Witcher. Good tv show. People are still bitching.
    I´m also from germany and i also (not counting the starting movie) never watched got and only read the books.

    But being a book fan you can understand why said fans are not happy to have their beloved story butchered by somone who gives a shit about the story and with his own words wants to bring itt into 2020 bcs this doesn´t scream good but bad to me and them.

  9. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaktar View Post
    Characters will have to change though, they always do when adapting a work.
    Yeah? How'd that work for Game of Thrones?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Being sexist also kinda comes with the territory of having to deal with the chasing mad men as your job and even then not all reds are sexist and not all none reds aren’t.
    *nods*
    Sexism is as much a mandate for the Red as much as it is for the Green.
    Funny that there's never a sexist complaint about them though. (Myrelle married her three warders.)

  10. #510
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Yeah? How'd that work for Game of Thrones?
    Quite well until they ran out of source material and the show runners were exposed for the shitty writers they are. That won't happen with WoT. Making slight changes to the characters isnt the same and having to write a completely original ending for a series.

  11. #511
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Yeah? How'd that work for Game of Thrones?

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    *nods*
    Sexism is as much a mandate for the Red as much as it is for the Green.
    Funny that there's never a sexist complaint about them though. (Myrelle married her three warders.)
    How did it work out for Lord of the Rings, or Harry Potter, or nearly every adapted work ever because things have to change when you change the medium a story is presented on.

    It's like I said, "oxygen is necessary for human survival," and you said, "Oh yeah? How'd breathing work out for Stalin??"

  12. #512
    That's just it, if they changed say...Jaime and Cersei's relationship it wouldn't have worked at all in GoT.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzit View Post
    Quite well until they ran out of source material and the show runners were exposed for the shitty writers they are. That won't happen with WoT. Making slight changes to the characters isnt the same and having to write a completely original ending for a series.
    Oh you mean they didn't change much because of the books.
    My point exactly.

  13. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Oh you mean they didn't change much because of the books.
    My point exactly.
    They made quite a few small changes to characters and even removed some minor characters, giving their traits and actions to others. Things change when adapting a work, that what the word means. There have been no evidence that they are changing anything about WoT, characters or plot details so flipping out about some characters having darker skin than the way you pictured them when reading the book is pointless. People really need to at least wait until the series, you know, actually exists before claiming they are ruining it.

  14. #514
    Darker skin..yeah that's nothing.

    But throwing things in that don't exist in the books just to make some pointless point...

    As much nudity is in the books. Jordan was pretty much a prude when it came to sex. It was all alluded about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skizzit View Post
    People really need to at least wait until the series, you know, actually exists before claiming they are ruining it.
    Fair enough.

  15. #515
    As always, I won't care what actors look like - I'll only care how they act, how the show's written, and so on. I don't think there's necessarily a casual connection between diversity in casting choices and bad writing, but there may be a correlation due to the way Hollywood works.

  16. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    The whole of the tower is Authorization with there all or nothing policy where ajah went into hiding to try and avoid them it wasn’t at all a red thing.

    Being sexist also kinda comes with the territory of having to deal with the chasing mad men as your job and even then not all reds are sexist and not all none reds aren’t.

    As far as having there own power structure ya it’s bad to ignore the actual ruling laws but The blues do the same things they just don’t have a bad person leading there breaking of the laws.

    As for the people who turned black it according to other people in here it was similar numbers to all the other ajah.

    I’m also not talking about the black tower and sanders stuff I mean where it says jorden tried to counter act then all being bad with characters like pevara.

    While I’m not trying to throw any Sade it kinda seems like you have missed the bigger picture of the reds because of a few(most names reds but few in total Count) key bad members.
    It's similar percentages not similar numbers because the red is the largest by far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Yeah? How'd that work for Game of Thrones?

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    *nods*
    Sexism is as much a mandate for the Red as much as it is for the Green.
    Funny that there's never a sexist complaint about them though. (Myrelle married her three warders.)
    How are the greens sexist?

  17. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    As always, I won't care what actors look like - I'll only care how they act, how the show's written, and so on. I don't think there's necessarily a casual connection between diversity in casting choices and bad writing, but there may be a correlation due to the way Hollywood works.
    There's been enough correlation recently between certain social justice narratives being shoved down consumers throats only to have it wind up being an abysmal failure for film producers. Case in point, Birds of Prey being marketed as a feminist movie and then it gets dunked at the box office by a Sonic film that looks pretty mediocre but at least exists to you know, entertain people. Then the producers and media acting like it's some sort of offense when an R rate movie, again, marketed as a feminist empowerment film, bombs while a PG movie that isn't marketed with any bullshit behind it other than it being sheer entertainment, does better than expected. It also helps when films actually have good writing and good acting, because at the very least, the bullshit can be backed up with some modicum of effort on behalf of the people producing it. But when all you have is identity politics to push a film, no shit it's going to bomb.

    It's funny, you can even see the polarization in the film reviews as well. BoP got generally mixed reviews from the audience while being praised excessively by reviewers. Sonic was generally disliked by reviewers and loved by the audience. What that tells me at the very least, is that consumers still vote with their wallet and don't want politics perverting their entertainment. The same has been true in gaming, television and literature.

    RJ wrote an entire universe that is diverse and has plenty of great concepts that people will love and hate alike, sticking to it shouldn't even be a discussion.
    Last edited by Rennadrel; 2020-02-16 at 07:11 PM.

  18. #518
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabrotar View Post
    I´m also from germany and i also (not counting the starting movie) never watched got and only read the books.

    But being a book fan you can understand why said fans are not happy to have their beloved story butchered by somone who gives a shit about the story and with his own words wants to bring itt into 2020 bcs this doesn´t scream good but bad to me and them.
    Of course i understand why poeple are pissed at something. I think skin color is not something to get pissed about though

  19. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Of course i understand why poeple are pissed at something. I think skin color is not something to get pissed about though
    The problem is when changing one thins changes something bif like the narrative for a whole group of people or how they´re normally interact with their enviroment and so on and lets face it, changing 1 thing won´t be the last thing they do and it only spirals out of control after that.

  20. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by Tabrotar View Post
    The problem is when changing one thins changes something bif like the narrative for a whole group of people or how they´re normally interact with their enviroment and so on and lets face it, changing 1 thing won´t be the last thing they do and it only spirals out of control after that.
    Well all of them are darker skinned so i don't see a big problem here. Actor for perrin is not that dark skinned. so they all come of more italian or middle eastern than african which they can use for other cultures.

    All that doom and gloom. The only thing we know are the actors. And yes they will change things. The story is waaaaay to long to completely put into a tv show. Say they take 1 season 1 book. That would with normal production times be 15 to 17 years.
    So i think 2 books 1 season is where they will go. That means they have to cut stuff and in turn with that change stuff so that the story still makes sense.

    If you expect a unchanged adaption from the books... i am sorry but that is just naive.

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