Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[derpkitteh]

Seriously? Reagan was one of the worst presidents in history and we are still suffering the negative affects of his actions.

"NOT THAT I'D WANT A REAGAN IN OFFICE EITHER"

he wasn't good. too open borders, dumbass economic policies, armed and trained the men that would go on to commit 9/11 and helped stir shit in the middle east even further.

but, he wasn't restrictive to free speech, gun rights, wasn't for horrifically weak borders. i'd prefer him to a modern dem.

[Wyrt]

but, he wasn't restrictive to free speech

The fuck are you smoking? He came to power in California in large part because his opposition to the free speech coming out of UC Berkeley. In particular the anti-war protestors. He frequently fought with the school administration trying to get them to punish students.

[Cthulhu 2020]

yeah, i get it's reagan-like. it'd be better for the country though. not that i'd want a reagan in office either, he was a dumbass.

i don't think biden's a socialist, but he and the others are too far on opening the borders and gun regulations.

all i want is a good civic nationalist party. trump lied about nationalism, bernie turned away from it(he used to be harder on immigration than he currently is).

I keep seeing the "centrists" claim that Biden and all the Democrats are for open borders, but I've literally never ever seen any policy declaration by them that is anything remotely close to open borders. I realize that Republicans constantly CLAIM that Democrats are for completely open borders, but have never actually seen some kind of declaration that we must accept everyone who crosses our borders as a citizen. Not once.

So are people simply gullible enough to believe the words that come out of the mouths of Republican congressmen and senators, infamous for how much they are giant fucking liars, or is it ...

The fact that Biden, Bernie, etc. do not have a border policy other than our normal border security? Are people so blind that they've forgotten the Obama legacy (what Democrats mostly want to keep) is catch and deport? Are people so blind that they don't realize that the Trump policy on immigration is catch and detain? We've even had statements and news that the Trump administration is actually trying to lure illegal immigrants across the border simply so they can fill up their for profit prisons. Do people ACTUALLY want this? Do people actually think that deliberately making people suffer in prison forever is the answer?

I just don't get how people can be so blind/ignorant about who wants and is doing what when it comes to immigration.

[derpkitteh]

The fuck are you smoking? He came to power in California in large part because his opposition to the free speech coming out of UC Berkeley. In particular the anti-war protestors. He frequently fought with the school administration trying to get them to punish students.

ah, yeah. considering how berkeley is these days, they were probably pro-communist, which communism should be banned(antithetical and subversive to american culture).

anyway, when's the next round of voting? this friday? i like watching these voting nights. oh, and will there be anymore dem debates? i need to watch one, i watched debates back in 2016.

[Wyrt]

ah, yeah. considering how berkeley is these days, they were probably pro-communist, which communism should be banned(antithetical and subversive to american culture).

WTF

1. They were anti-war protesters, not communists.
and
2. Banning "communism" when you don't even know what the fuck communism means would mean banning a whole fucking lot of people's free speech.

[Cthulhu 2020]

ah, yeah. considering how berkeley is these days, they were probably pro-communist, which communism should be banned(antithetical and subversive to american culture).

anyway, when's the next round of voting? this friday? i like watching these voting nights. oh, and will there be anymore dem debates? i need to watch one, i watched debates back in 2016.

I'm not even shocked any more, that someone who seemed pretty centrist is now directly listening to and believing Republican propaganda, who bitches about people being banned one twitter for being racist, is now also saying talks of communism should be banned in the US. People who have become radicalized complaining about radicalism from the other side.

- - - Updated - - -

WTF

1. They were anti-war protesters, not communists.
and
2. Banning "communism" when you don't even know what the fuck communism means would mean banning a whole fucking lot of people's free speech.

I do find it juicy that someone who whinges about twitter bans for being a racist asshole is suggesting we ban talk of communism on the national level. Don't you?

[derpkitteh]

I'm not even shocked any more, that someone who seemed pretty centrist is now directly listening to and believing Republican propaganda, who bitches about people being banned one twitter for being racist, is now also saying talks of communism should be banned in the US. People who have become radicalized complaining about radicalism from the other side.

i am not really centrist. most of my opinions are either hard right or hard left. no immigration, full gun rights, nearly full speech, UBI, some form of "free" healthcare.

as for banning communism, it's an existential threat and subverts american society. allowing it in the US is injecting yourself with poison.

[Orbitus]

i am not really centrist. most of my opinions are either hard right or hard left. no immigration, full gun rights, nearly full speech, UBI, some form of "free" healthcare.

as for banning communism, it's an existential threat and subverts american society. allowing it in the US is injecting yourself with poison.

Well, it is a good thing that no one, and I mean, NO ONE is proposing anything communistic. But you right wingers will claim otherwise.

[Wyrt]

i am not really centrist. most of my opinions are either hard right or hard left. no immigration, full gun rights, nearly full speech, UBI, some form of "free" healthcare.

as for banning communism, it's an existential threat and subverts american society. allowing it in the US is injecting yourself with poison.

You right wingers bitched about Obama being a communist. The absolute last thing we need is right wingers banning fucking everything because they screech about everything being communist.

Fuck, just yesterday Sean Hannity was crying about Sanders being a communist because he'd consider legalizing prostitution. Prostitution is apparently communism according to crazy right wingers.

[derpkitteh]

You right wingers bitched about Obama being a communist. The absolute last thing we need is right wingers banning fucking everything because they screech about everything being communist.

Fuck, just yesterday Sean Hannity was crying about Sanders being a communist because he'd consider legalizing prostitution. Prostitution is apparently communism according to crazy right wingers.

i actually wouldn't mind legalized prostitution myself.

like, in the form of brothels anyway.

[CostinR]

Seriously? Reagan was one of the worst presidents in history and we are still suffering the negative affects of his actions.

That's arguably one of the most ridiculous sentiments that exists among left wingers today.

Reagan without any real argument is one of the best presidents of the United States as historians strongly agree on this aspect.What this really reads as "he did things I dislike because of my personal views" and/or "he didn't do what I would have wanted him to"

What can fault him and his administration for the absolutely atrocious handling of the AIDS crisis, especially early on, simply because they did not care for the people affected by it but what Reagan did in ending the Cold War is not to be underestimated. He was quite instrumental in managing to end that long running conflict where the greatest armies ever assembled in human history stood down without the war that many had expected in the 50s.

[Wyrt]

That's arguably one of the most ridiculous sentiments that exists among left wingers today.

Reagan without any real argument is one of the best presidents of the United States as historians strongly agree on this aspect.What this really reads as "he did things I dislike because of my personal views" and/or "he didn't do what I would have wanted him to"

What can fault him and his administration for the absolutely atrocious handling of the AIDS crisis, especially early on, simply because they did not care for the people affected by it but what Reagan did in ending the Cold War is not to be underestimated. He was quite instrumental in managing to end that long running conflict where the greatest armies ever assembled in human history stood down without the war that many had expected in the 50s.

He destroyed labor unions and his economic policies lead to decades of wage stagnation and the shrinking of the middle class.

[PosPosPos]

He destroyed labor unions and his economic policies lead to decades of wage stagnation and the shrinking of the middle class.

That is exactly what far-righters want though.

The problem, like I mentioned earlier in the thread, is that the rest of us shouldn't look at the far-right movement and expect they would have goals that are conceivable for actual humans to have.

Humans, while they may differ in methods and end goals, ultimately want progress for humanity. The far-right movement hates anything civilization has to offer, and will do anything in extreme prejudice to subvert that.

[Draco-Onis]

That's arguably one of the most ridiculous sentiments that exists among left wingers today.

Reagan without any real argument is one of the best presidents of the United States as historians strongly agree on this aspect.What this really reads as "he did things I dislike because of my personal views" and/or "he didn't do what I would have wanted him to"

What can fault him and his administration for the absolutely atrocious handling of the AIDS crisis, especially early on, simply because they did not care for the people affected by it but what Reagan did in ending the Cold War is not to be underestimated. He was quite instrumental in managing to end that long running conflict where the greatest armies ever assembled in human history stood down without the war that many had expected in the 50s.

Then your historian is a fucking moron or a right wing hack because he never heard of Iran Contra the thing Reagan should have gotten impeached for but didn't because Richard Nixon was still too fresh. That's not even going into his complete incompetence when it came to handling things especially the economy. He didn't end the cold war he gave a speech to take credit that's it. The reasons the cold war ended were beyond him he was just at the right place at the right time.

[Ghostpanther]

Right, if democrats would pick a clinton they could definitely beat Trump... no holes in that argument at all..

Big difference between Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton. Bill knows how to campaign and is a good speaker. He is likable. Someone like him would beat Trump.

[TheramoreIsTheBomb]

Big difference between Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton. Bill knows how to campaign and is a good speaker. He is likable. Someone like him would beat Trump.

Bill Clinton is connected to Jeffrey Epstein and has a past of scandals against him. We couldn't handle "DeLeTD EwMails", what makes you think we can handle something from the 90s?

[draynay]

Reagan without any real argument is one of the best presidents of the United States as historians strongly agree on this aspect.

You're gonna call someone else ridiculous and then make an absurd claim like this? Historians never strongly agree on anything, certainly they never agree not to argue.


Also its crazy, there is no consensus on Reagan's presidency outside of Republican worship of the man. You say there is no "real argument" so I must assume you would reject any and have none of your own to counter them anyway, so I will not waste my time going further in depth with someone who can't engage logically.

[Dontrike]

Big difference between Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton. Bill knows how to campaign and is a good speaker. He is likable. Someone like him would beat Trump.

So you're admitting Trump isn't likable nor a good speaker. Watch out, I hear when you go against Trump he seeks vengeance.

[CostinR]

Then your historian is a fucking moron or a right wing hack because he never heard of Iran Contra the thing Reagan should have gotten impeached for but didn't because Richard Nixon was still too fresh. That's not even going into his complete incompetence when it came to handling things especially the economy.

https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurv.../?page=overall

The C-Span Preisdential Historian Survey ranked him 9th most recently in 2017.

Then there's the New York Times with their own survey of experts: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...residents.html

The ranked Obama 8th, Reagan 9th and Trump last. Great right wing hacks right there.

He didn't end the cold war he gave a speech to take credit that's it. The reasons the cold war ended were beyond him he was just at the right place at the right time.

Gorbachev, as would many people living in Eastern Europe, would strongly beg to differ on that. The idea that he was at the right place and right time ignores the actual history of that period. There was no certainty the USSR and Warsaw Pact were going to fall in the 80s, indeed many people mocked and ridiculed Reagan precisely because he wanted to make it happen. His speech saying "Tear down this wall" was laughed and scoffed at by my experts in his day. Until it happened.

Liberals despise him for many of the same reasons they despise Thatcher in the United Kingdom, that they did many things anathema to the what liberals wanted. Oh sure conservatives paint a picture that's unrealistic: Reagan built up the American military to the very picture we have known since then, but he didn't really use it with the exception of Grenada. He talked big but he also negotiated in good faith with the Soviets. He made deals with the Democrats to achieve much of his agenda.

Four great people helped bring about the end of communism: Reagan, Gorbachev, Pope John Paul II and Thatcher. We are very very fortunate to not have grown as our parents did, in an era of constant nuclear threat with the largest armies and arsenal of the two strongest military powers in the entirety of human history pointed at each other.

[Trunksee]

I am going to ask this question because the right already have their answer. Is there any candidate on the left that can galvanize the party like Trump has on the right? If the Democrat ic party cannot find a candidate to get all of the votes after winning the primary they are destined for failure. Bernie is to far left and wont get moderates. Pete is gay and the country is not ready for a that in the least just look at the quotes coming out of iowa. Klobacher has no chance if a clinton didnt. Trump targeted Biden knowing he was the only one with a chance. Bloomberg is the democrats best chance now and but because he doesnt have the vote even Trump has in the black vote hes being put down. Yall need a person who can get ALL of the party to show up to vote like Trump has and i just dont see a candidate who can do that yet.