What if Blizzard Re-released Wrath of the Lich King?

[Seuchentiffy]

Wrath servers wouldn’t have the legs. It was the most casual expansion of all time, there’s a reason subscriptions leveled out and started to decline. It has:

-Easiest raids of any expansion, only early vanilla raids were easier. Players in 2020 would smash through everything, even the hard modes.

-AoE snooze fest dungeons. No CC required, unlike BC heroics or Cata launch heroics. No scaling mythic + or affixes.

-Deterministic gear through the badge system. Welfare epics, even noobs could get their full tier set.

I wonder why People would even try to compare something from over 10 Years ago to nowadays... It just amazes me, its like taking a Math test you had in elementary school with the knowledge you have now.......

Easiest Raids? I highly doubt that, ill grant you the First Tier and Trial. After that? Nowhere near as easy, just look up how long it took for the First kills of Yogg 0, Algalon, LK if you dont remember them.

BC Heroics werent that Hard, i even would call Cata launch Heroics that hard. You just couldnt PUG some of them, that was all.

And what is wrong with everybody can get at least a crappy version of T-Sets? T-Sets only where special in Classic when it came to the AQ/Naxx sets, after that they lost some of it shine.

Welfare Epics are in the Game since BC or did you forget about Magisters' Terrace loot?

OT:

Would love to see a rerelease of Wrath but seeing what happend to Classic, the chances of me enjoying it at the same amount as at the time it released are very low.
As it is my most played Exp to date, all i would care about is prob getting to Shadowmourne again with Arp Cap and faceroll my way through Arena with a TSG comp.

Think WotLk would not be as Big a succes as Classic was but would still gather a good amount of Players.

[Mightytasty]

Nefarian lasted 77 days in Vanilla but 40 minutes in Classic. Your argument of “look up how long Wrath endbosses lasted” is totally moot.

[Crionics]

Wrath PVP was pretty bad. Too bursty and we had to endure S5 Death Knights. By the end the wizard cleave comp was ridiculous. So ridiculous they removed Bloodlust/Heroism from arena. You also had the terrible tier 7 where guilds were clearing it with multiple members who weren't even at level cap. Wrath was carried by Ulduar and to a lesser extent a pretty good tier in Icecrown. Half the tiers in the entire expac were trash. Tier 7 was cleared by level 77s who clicked their abilities and ToC is widely regarded as the worst tier ever made. Wrath was good but in no way the pinnacle of WoW. I'd put Classic, TBC, most of Cata, MOP, and Legion far ahead of WOTLK.

[MoanaLisa]

There may be a Wrath Classic some day. It's talked about all the time over in the Classic forum (which is where this should be).

[rrayy]

Yes it was. And LFG ruins mmo games it was one of the biggest thing what people wanted classic in first place.

Your opinion not fact.

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no,its a fact,all wrath first tier was cleared day 1,and the dungeons were extremly easy,not like tbc or cata hard,and after that they started scaling them,also,the vednors in wrath had by far the most cathup gear,again,facts,that can be researched

Again your opinion. What you think is easy others think is hard. What some people completed quickly, others struggled with. Again, learn what each word means because you aren't using them correctly.

[Elias01]

Your opinion not fact.

Its fact. Maybe if you would actualy enage in potcasts and classic discissions you would know that. LFG have far more cons than pros. But i know you wont understand this becouse you actuly dont like playing mmos.

[froschhure]

no.
10char

[Eurhetemec]

Dungeon were even more faceroll than in MOP, completely forgettable.

Wait what?

Did you seriously just claim all of WotLK had bad dungeons that were totally forgettable? Holy shit son. Holy shit. That is some truly remarkable reality-denial.

[deenman]

Your opinion not fact.

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Again your opinion. What you think is easy others think is hard. What some people completed quickly, others struggled with. Again, learn what each word means because you aren't using them correctly.

If anyone struggled with wrath dungeons they would proly get stuck and suffocate in a paper bag lol

[Onikaroshi]

Its fact. Maybe if you would actualy enage in potcasts and classic discissions you would know that. LFG have far more cons than pros. But i know you wont understand this becouse you actuly dont like playing mmos.

Ah yes, let's let echo Chambers decide what we think about things. LFG actually let me do dungeons in wrath, my play time was between like 1 am and 6 am and no one was around on my server.

And it's not like dungeon groups were the pinnacles of socialization. No one talks in them now and no one talked in them before lfg

[Relapses]

Its fact. Maybe if you would actualy enage in potcasts and classic discissions you would know that. LFG have far more cons than pros. But i know you wont understand this becouse you actuly dont like playing mmos.

Not having a LFG has the largest con of them all: Another game with a LFG would have attracted more players. This is the reason Blizzard added it. And it's nice to play revisionist and pretend like it wouldn't have mattered because Blizzard has remained on top of the game in the years since; but I firmly believe that Blizzard adding features like the LFG and the LFR are what kept the game ahead of its competition and are, in large part, the reason we're still celebrating the game's 15th anniversary.

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Ah yes, let's let echo Chambers decide what we think about things. LFG actually let me do dungeons in wrath, my play time was between like 1 am and 6 am and no one was around on my server.

And it's not like dungeon groups were the pinnacles of socialization. No one talks in them now and no one talked in them before lfg

I think people incorrectly use forced socialization as a net benefit of not having a LFG. It really wasn't that. The LFG is a purely QoL change and significantly increases the overall playability of the game for average players.

[Onikaroshi]

Not having a LFG has the largest con of them all: Another game with a LFG would have attracted more players. This is the reason Blizzard added it. And it's nice to play revisionist and pretend like it wouldn't have mattered because Blizzard has remained on top of the game in the years since; but I firmly believe that Blizzard adding features like the LFG and the LFR are what kept the game ahead of its competition and are, in large part, the reason we're still celebrating the game's 15th anniversary.

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I think people incorrectly use forced socialization as a net benefit of not having a LFG. It really wasn't that. The LFG is a purely QoL change and significantly increases the overall playability of the game for average players.

Pretty sure it's all just rose tinted glasses. My socialization in wow is the same now as it was in vanilla, almost 100% guild related

[dacoolist]

Lets be honest, you KNOW they are working on TBC already - with the SUCCsess of Classic wow.. Bli$$ard see'd THAT MONEY BAEEEBEEEE ;D

OT: I think Legit I would play Wrath like way more than I played classic

[Eurhetemec]

Its fact. Maybe if you would actualy enage in potcasts and classic discissions you would know that. LFG have far more cons than pros. But i know you wont understand this becouse you actuly dont like playing mmos.

Based on these statements, you literally don't understand what facts are in this case. This is going to make it very hard for you to have a rational argument with anyone! What you're expressing is an opinion. LFD became necessary because of the situation Blizzard had themselves created, which is that people really needed to do dungeons, especially heroic dungeons, but the system for getting groups together was terrible.

I'm guessing you didn't play pre-WotLK, from the way you write, or possibly even in WotLK (particularly as you act like "LFG" is an inherently bad thing, when every MMO has a system which is for Looking For Groups - including all those predating WoW - they just aren't usually automated). But if, like me, you'd played since open beta US, you'd know WoW had a long history of totally crap systems for getting groups together. This was entirely due to management - people like Pardo, Metzen and so on. I forget which one of them it was who articulated, but one of the senior management, when questioned about WoW's crap LFG-type system, specifically stated that Blizzard were sure there was a better way, so they refused to simply have the same systems as other games, systems that worked. This resulted in WoW having basically NO systems for long periods prior to WotLK.

So then they got their magical "system no other game has", which was the automated LFD system. That was the result of Blizzard's high-ups being difficult bastards. There were alternate solutions - a normal LFG system would have been one, similar to the way the LFG works in Mythic+, say. I get that some people though the LFG in Legion was shocking and new, but there were games basically working like that in the early 2000s, lol. They could have added in an ability to teleport to the dungeon to a normal (non-automated) LFG system, and that would have pretty much solved the problem.

But it wouldn't have been SPECIAL enough for Blizzard. That's the thing. Blizzard has had a long and problematic history of having to have the SPECIAL thing, even as it casually rips off other MMOs much of the time (which is fine, imo, the ripping off). Similarly when Warhammer: Age of Reckoning came out, and Blizzard got criticised a bit for how much better it handled a lot of PvP stuff, Blizzard's game director at the time, whoever it was, made some comment about how yes, WAR did a lot of stuff well, but Blizzard would do things their own way (and implied they do better). They didn't of course, do better.

[Easo]

Ah yes, let's let echo Chambers decide what we think about things. LFG actually let me do dungeons in wrath, my play time was between like 1 am and 6 am and no one was around on my server.

I have never seen anyone from the LFG hate camp provide any reasonable alternative to situations like these except attempting to be smartass, like "Just change server, lul" or "Its your issue, play normal times".

[EbonBehelit-]

Just a few points I felt compelled to correct:

Now for the Raid content. There were two raids. Naxxramas and The Vault of Archavon. Naxxramas was a pushover. It was considered faceroll back in 3.0. It is comparable in difficulty to some Classic WoW raids. It was that easy. Not only that, but it was a replica of a raid from Classic WoW, only now tuned for 25 players instead of 40. The reception was pretty mixed back in 3.0. Then there is the Vault of Archavon, the raid in Lake Wintergrasp. It was essentially a 1 boss encounter that players could complete once their faction controlled the Lake Wintergrasp PvP zone. The fights were all quite short and straightforward. It took about 30 minutes to finish.

Four. There were four raids at the start of Wrath: Naxxramas, Sartharion's Lair, The Eye of Eternity and Vault of Archavon (which had an extra boss added each pvp season).

The PvP in Wrath is considered one of the high points. What was it really like though? The fastest way to get Blue PvP gear was to honor farm in Strand of the Ancients. SotA is a battleground that largely involves siege warfare. The reason it was so popular in WOTLK is because the games would end fast. Players would often avoid fights and instead focus on destorying walls with siege vehicles. You didn't actually need to fight other players, since the ultimate goal was to siege the walls of the defending team. The Lake Wintergrasp PvP zone was pretty similar. It involved a lot of siege vehicles. Some players were into that kind of thing.

Wrath's pvp was only remembered fondly in hindsight. There was incessant bitching about class balance (and everything else) back when it was current content. Siege vehicles were polarising at best, as was Wintergrasp with its balancing rodeo, and Strand was so utterly despised that it was reworked multiple times, then eventually removed entirely. There's a reason we haven't seen siege vehicles in pvp since Cata.

The Deathknight class was truly heroic, and quite overpowered in Arena. While there was variety of decent comps, a lot of specs were pretty unviable when compared to the power of an unholy DK.

Death Knights were only overpowered for the first half of Wrath -- seasons 5 & 6. By season 8, the class had well and truly lost its dominance.

Also, just a nitpick, but the dominant DK spec in early Wrath was Shadowfrost. Regardless, that damn spec left the class with a legacy that to this day it's never been able to live down.

[Stormspark]

Blizzard of today would find a way to make it suck horribly.

[rrayy]

If anyone struggled with wrath dungeons they would proly get stuck and suffocate in a paper bag lol

Dungeons weren't easy because of mechanics or lack there of. It was because it was very easy to get better gear to massively outgear them. They were a struggle at first.

[Casperite]

Wrath is often regarded as the pinnacle of WoW, particularly on this forum. Is Wrath really as good as some of us like to remember. The release of Classic has forced some players to admit that original WoW certainly has its shortcomings. The reality is you can't relive Vanilla WoW. So one should assume that the same applies for Wrath. But is that really the case?

I remember the first months of Wrath of the Lich King in quite some detail, perhaps better than most. The question is how would it all playout if the game was released again today. Well let's examine some of the content firstly. Northrend had some of the best leveling ever in the game, but it didn't take that long. It might take the average player only a week nowadays to ding 80. While the leveling content is fun compared to Classic, it is quite short.

The max level content in early Wrath was as follows. The dungeons included Utgarde Keep, Azjol Nerub, The Nexus, Gundrak, The Violet Hold, Drak'tharon Keep, Ahn'kahet, Utgard Pinnacle, Halls of Stone, Halls of Lightning, and The Oculus. Some of these dungeons were very disliked by the community. Dungeons like Oculus, Nexus, Gundrak, and Violet Hold were often complained about on the forums. The dungeons were also quite easy compared to TBC dungeons. Just imagine how easy they would be if played through today. I do think that the Utgard dungeons were pretty exceptional, but overall alot of the dungeons were forgettable.

Now for the Raid content. There were two raids. Naxxramas and The Vault of Archavon. Naxxramas was a pushover. It was considered faceroll back in 3.0. It is comparable in difficulty to some Classic WoW raids. It was that easy. Not only that, but it was a replica of a raid from Classic WoW, only now tuned for 25 players instead of 40. The reception was pretty mixed back in 3.0. Then there is the Vault of Archavon, the raid in Lake Wintergrasp. It was essentially a 1 boss encounter that players could complete once their faction controlled the Lake Wintergrasp PvP zone. The fights were all quite short and straightforward. It took about 30 minutes to finish.

The PvP in Wrath is considered one of the high points. What was it really like though? The fastest way to get Blue PvP gear was to honor farm in Strand of the Ancients. SotA is a battleground that largely involves siege warfare. The reason it was so popular in WOTLK is because the games would end fast. Players would often avoid fights and instead focus on destorying walls with siege vehicles. You didn't actually need to fight other players, since the ultimate goal was to siege the walls of the defending team. The Lake Wintergrasp PvP zone was pretty similar. It involved a lot of siege vehicles. Some players were into that kind of thing. Arena was bursty. Players would often be 100-0'd by Retribution/DK combos. The Deathknight class was truly heroic, and quite overpowered in Arena. While there was variety of decent comps, a lot of specs were pretty unviable when compared to the power of an unholy DK.

As fun as the leveling in Northrend was, there really wasn't that much world content. Players rarely revisited some zones. Dalaran was the main hub. It was majestic, yet at the same time cramped.There was a lot of standing around in Dalaran, no different than what you see in Orgrimmar or Stormwind in Classic. Now I know that Wrath eventually added some pretty spectacular content (Ulduar), there was definitely some disappointing additions (ToC). The Icecrown Citadel patch was pretty well received, but there was very little added to Wrath after ICC. I can't imagine being stuck in ICC for 8 months would be that fun nowadays.

I had a lot of fun in Wrath, but I question whether that could ever be relived. Knowing what we now know.

How are you so certain your memory of it is better than most? That statement alone leads me to believe your memory is just as flawed as most, if not more so.

[agentsi]

what a cringy post. You apparently don't remember Wotlk that well. As several people have pointed out the mistakes in your assessment. And beyond that, they aren't going to do it. Not until TBC is launched and played through, then and maybe only then will a Wotlk server come out. And it will be 100% as it was back in the day.