It doesnt matter how good you are anymore

[kaminaris]

No it's not for the very simple reason - with corruption you are in control, because you can get same bonus in many slots until the global cap.

TF is very binary - either the slot titanforged or not, where as with this system - if you don't have corruption in one slot, then you can just get it in another one and it ultimately won't matter, because you can't really afford to have corruption on all pieces due to softcaps.


Corruption sure has shortcomings as I pointed it out, but it is certainly better than TF when it comes to RNG.

Why would I need control over 0-1% non binary system that gave me miniscule upgrades not even worth mentioning?
And by 0-1% I mean whole range of numbers in between.
You didn't need them anyways and it didn't even work for mythic raid items. Yep Titanforging DID NOT WORK on mythic raid items.
Simply because base ilvl was 445 and max ilvl was 455. So that was a range of warforging giving you 0.5% tops.

This system only worked and helped casuals and M+ players.

[froschhure]

started with wotlk. good mooooorning :* <3

[melodramocracy]

How can you say all of that after saying "math isnt hard" neither is logic.

You were GAURANTEED to get all legos, you are not guranteed to get the corruption you want because it is totally rng, it will continue through the season because you can be damn certain the corruption wanted is going to be duplicating on slots for some while others its going to land perfectly, not to mention actual item stats. imagine rank 3 stars on an item with your worst possible stats ring,

if your lucky then bfa is better, if your unlucky then bfa is far worse

At the start of legion you absolutely were not guaranteed anything in terms of legendaries. It's not outside the realm of possibility that a vendor is set up to allow folks to corrupt a piece of gear for yet another currency, if they even bother at all (I would guess that if Shadowlands gets delayed, you may see something like this).

[Gaidax]

Why would I need control over 0-1% non binary system that gave me miniscule upgrades not even worth mentioning?
And by 0-1% I mean whole range of numbers in between.
You didn't need them anyways and it didn't even work for mythic raid items. Yep Titanforging DID NOT WORK on mythic raid items.
Simply because base ilvl was 445 and max ilvl was 455. So that was a range of warforging giving you 0.5% tops.

This system only worked and helped casuals and M+ players.

Tell that to my



At any rate, I, personally, never had issues with any sort of forging. I'm not the one who has panties in a twist over some Billy getting good item in LFR once in a blue moon.

That does not mean I can't think that this corruption is better and more interesting too, which it is.

[iindigo]

gear has always counted for more than skill (except during templates in legion but yall hated that)

I didn't mind templates at all. In fact some of the most fun random BGs I've ever run were during Legion. Fixed stats is a small price to pay for not getting instagibbed due to your opponent's gear (or your lack thereof).

[Tradu]

Tell that to my



At any rate, I, personally, never had issues with any sort of forging. I'm not the one who has panties in a twist over some Billy getting good item in LFR once in a blue moon.

That does not mean I can't think that this corruption is better and more interesting too, which it is.

Notice how it doesn't say "titanforged" on that item.

[Mightytasty]

Thats entirely my point!!

These guys are getting into high keys by getting boosted through middle keys, when they are entering the high keys they are failing on season 1 mechanics.

Same goes for skilled ppl in higher keys, it will be limiting how high they can go because they dont have the extra dps from lucky corruption which could be the difference between intime and not. dont tell me a 10kdps overall difference due to corruption couldnt be the difference in say an 18/19 key.

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You dont see the flaw? imagine waiting a month and finally you get the best corruption you could want on a 475 ring, now take your worst stat and imagine that its stacked with that.

While there will be people getting that very same corruption on a ring stacked with there best stat, do you realise the difference a correctly statted ring makes? compared to the polar opposite? id dare say as powerful as some corruption itself.

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yep, paladins and dhs can run 79 comfortably with there utilities, thats not a misbalance at all is it.

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Not much difference? apart from the fact that the other warrior in your raid now has it, and next time it drops your next in line. it took me about 2 months to get 100% arp on fury warrior in icc which was no easy thing, i honestly feel like i could go the entire season and not get anywhere near optimal bis, how is that comparable?

Of course raiders will have an advantage because people may eventually start passing about corrupted gear.

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Theres also no protection from you getting versa proc on damage taken every week for the rest of the expansion.

Imagine complaining about not having your BiS 4 weeks into the raid tier. Corrupted items are dropping like crazy.

[docterfreeze]

Imagine complaining about not having your BiS 4 weeks into the raid tier. Corrupted items are dropping like crazy.

What week will we be allowed to complain, mighty complaint gatekeeper?

[Mightytasty]

What week will we be allowed to complain, mighty complaint gatekeeper?

As soon as you start offering some actually constructive suggestions instead of whining

[docterfreeze]

As soon as you start offering some actually constructive suggestions instead of whining

Ok. Proc damage corruption effects undermine how well you play your class, while stat increasing corruptions do the opposite. Proc damage corruption effects should be removed.

[Marrilaife]

Ok. Proc damage corruption effects undermine how well you play your class, while stat increasing corruptions do the opposite. Proc damage corruption effects should be removed.

Tbh yeah, if corruptions only gave stat procs like "when you crit you get stacking crit rating" or "9% more crit chance" or "4% more crit damage" etc. with all possible stats it would be much more balanced than the massive damage procs that can widely swing from pull to pull even on the same player.

If you want to give some "procs" they should be no stronger than your average trinket.

Increased stats also emphasize differences in skill more than random procs. Because then your damage is still tied to how you press your buttons rather than "I'm in combat and my shit just procs at random intervals".

[odamienskii]

Imagine complaining about not having your BiS 4 weeks into the raid tier. Corrupted items are dropping like crazy.

im more complaining about the shitty players corruption is pushing up the rio rankings than my own personal corruption.

Im not jelly, i am annoyed at these plebs constantly depleting keys.

[Brewhan]

I don't like how im stuck with tier 3 mind flay ring and cant really wear anything else because 66 corruption ring and I want to stay at 39 corruption max.

[Mightytasty]

Ok. Proc damage corruption effects undermine how well you play your class, while stat increasing corruptions do the opposite. Proc damage corruption effects should be removed.

That’s better. And I largely agree with you. The proc damage effects I think are cool and thematic to patch 8.3 but going forward I would want more class-specific effects.

[Azerate]

I can't believe there's 10 pages of replies to this obvious troll post

[Charge me Doctor]

It absolutely happens. Our other Ele shaman is better than I am, and yet I compete with him, or beat him, on some fights where my Infinite Stars just pops off(or on Hivemind first kill where my Twilight Devastation did like 15% of my damage with 0 skill required on my end). That shouldn't happen, he should always, consistently be doing more than me. It gets harder and harder to tell who's the better player the more random free damage Blizzard adds to the game, while reducing the reward for playing correctly(like reducing Bloodtalons from 50% snapshot to 25%)

Yesterday i was asked for advice on how to fire mage, i ran this guy through a M+ and he ended up with less than half of my damage through dungeon, with DPS peaking at 50k during burst - twice lower than mine. He had twilight stars by the way, and i don't have them (i have the tentacle that did better than starts, and a bunch of stat boosters). This is the difference that skill makes (again, in some cases, i'm absolutely aware that there are specs where you can just ram your face into the keyboard and that's the whole gameplay), if you still think that skill doesn't matter, then, maybe, you are playing such a spec where skill doesn't matter. Or just spend a bit of time on warcraftlogs

And let's not pretend that twilight devastation padding damage on hivemind even matters, you can easily scratch that damage out and fight would be no different.

[Tradu]

Yesterday i was asked for advice on how to fire mage, i ran this guy through a M+ and he ended up with less than half of my damage through dungeon, with DPS peaking at 50k during burst - twice lower than mine. He had twilight stars by the way, and i don't have them (i have the tentacle that did better than starts, and a bunch of stat boosters). This is the difference that skill makes (again, in some cases, i'm absolutely aware that there are specs where you can just ram your face into the keyboard and that's the whole gameplay), if you still think that skill doesn't matter, then, maybe, you are playing such a spec where skill doesn't matter. Or just spend a bit of time on warcraftlogs

And let's not pretend that twilight devastation padding damage on hivemind even matters, you can easily scratch that damage out and fight would be no different.

I never said skill doesn't matter, I said it matters less than in the past, which is objectively true(because much more of your damage breakdown comes from free damage like corruption procs, benthic gear, azerite traits). Not sure which trait Twilight Stars is, but if it's Infinite Stars that trait is utter trash in M+(and most other situations).
You're also wrong about Hivemind, literally the only damage that matters on that fight is to adds(at least on mythic).

[BeepBoo]

1) I still think that it never mattered how good you were in this game- you didn't prove anything by stating "wrong."

If it didn't matter how good you were, then everyone would be able to clear and down everything first try, no issues.

2) I agree with you that the gear is more variable now. That's totally random though. To support your argument that this would play a part in negating player skill, the variability would have to be intentionally targeted to benefit lower skilled players and its just not- its random.

You realize all it does is take ONE instance of this actually happening out in the wild to prove my point that it is indeed impacting the outcomes where someone with lesser skill is beating someone with more skill right? You seriously don't think, after the millions of parses recorded, that this is the case? It doesn't have to be specifically designed to be negating skill. That's not what I said. I said it IS negating skill differences between players, and it undoubtedly has.

As for balance- has this game ever been balanced?

"It's never been perfect so it doesn't matter how bad it is!" Nice fallacy.

4) You admitted that the bar is low and said that that leaves skill but you didn't really offer any evidence on that so not sure how to respond....

The bar to getting BIS in wotlk was easy. You cleared the raid enough times, you would 100% have BIS or maybe be one piece off if you were incredibly unlucky. However, even after people acquired BIS, there were still performance differences. Wonder why that was? Couldn't possibly be related to the variances in human capabilities, otherwise known as skill. People making excuses for why it's ok to be mediocre or justify that are some of the worst mindset people out there.

5) I don't think raiding was popular because of e-peens and you are referring to a different type of competition. Raiding was popular because you could group up with your friends, chat and bs on discord while you killed something. It requires some strat- so there is something to keep it interesting but I don't think people raided because they were "competitive." I'm sure some did, but I don't think that is true of the majority. It was more of a social thing for most, I think.

Until raids became not-face-roll. Warcraft logs even existing due to its popularity of usage, people constantly referencing tools like raider io, etc. All of these are proof that people expect you to be good, which is asking that you be competitive with the current bar, which is saying epeen is basically the root of most of the progression in this game.

A "majority" of players don't even fucking play the big juicy pieces of the game any more (raids, high M+, etc) so I don't really care what they do. They're out grinding the same world quest for the 123864th time, hopping base-difficulty islands, or afking and standing in fire in LFR. They might as well not exist in my world.

6) The game and the sport don't really matter. They are forms of entertainment. I like WOW and enjoy it, as I enjoy a football game- but do either really matter? I don't think so........ After WoW, there will be some other game to play. People will say things like "remember when we used to play warcraft with the raids and all that...." and then the conversation will move on.... See? It doesn't really matter......

So say it doesn't really matter to YOU. Saying "it doesn't matter" is saying it doesn't matter universally. If you think that, you're retarded, and I already outlined why. People care about different things. Know what doesn't matter to me? The life of some poor kid who has shit parents in the middle of butt-fuck-nowhere somewhere on the other side of the world. I'm sure that kid feels differently about how much he matters, though.

[Pper]

Ok. Proc damage corruption effects undermine how well you play your class, while stat increasing corruptions do the opposite. Proc damage corruption effects should be removed.

Agreed.

I don't even get how people can view this differently, or yes I can, they are the lucky ones who already have their BIS traits on rank 3

The chance to get the trait you want on the rank you want is currently below 2%.
And the DPS increase is massive.

This is literally the worst RNG World of Warcraft has ever seen.

I'm unlucky, got probably 10-15 corrupted items and they are all not really good. Others in my raid, who are not playing on a higher level than me (I know from years of raiding prior to this system), are dealing 10k dps more than me now, sometimes even more. Longer fights are a bit more "balanced" (when the people with the good traits have to play mechanics more than I do for example), mythic+ fights are way different, sometimes the right trait can push your dps beyond everything that is holy.

Either remove the damage proc traits or give us a way to reroll corruption effects for really cheap so we can at least try to get the right effect on our new corruption item.

[Sansnom]

LFR actually removes shitty players from the pool because they have a place to be

Personally, I rather play with shitty players but good people rather than good players but shitty people.