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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    Classic has extremely little content if you're not a raider or a serious PvP:er, however I'm beginning to feel that the content it does have is way too easy. Raids are cleared the first reset by most guilds and then you're back to raid logging for farm raids that are almost as easy as LFR is in retail.
    It doesn't give you a sense of accomplishment and the character progression is extremely slow, with new gear upgrades coming at you about once a month.
    It's starting to feel like, what's the point if there's no challenge?
    Classic/TBC are for different people. For those who don't have much time, or simply not interested to do something hard. Like myself. All I want is to play a little, maybe have a nice successful raid, easy fast clear, bit of a fun with pals, maybe еto get an epic or two. It always brings mood up. Even though I work from home and it's much easier than from office, still I work a lot and last thing I want in the evening is to wipe on some super hard boss and get flamed by guildies for failing some hard mechanic. Wotlk is when all this "heroic" shit started and brought lots of stree and this is when I quit, never to return.

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaito92 View Post
    Also dumbed down has nothing to do with difficulty, btw.
    Ladies and gentleman, the classic community in full blown defensive mode! Watching the handful of you still committed to this "classic is a DIFFERENT kind of hard" argument is like watching flat earthers in a debate.

  3. #343
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millyraynge View Post
    some sort of resistance is always key. to keep players attracted it requires an individual degree of work/reward balance. the lower the perceived resistance of the required work, the lower the perceived value of the reward.
    If you want to take a stimulus-response view of games, sure. But... I don't. I play to have fun with people. Anyone who takes rewards in video games seriously is unbalanced, too.

  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by VincentWolf View Post
    Classic/TBC are for different people. For those who don't have much time, or simply not interested to do something hard. Like myself. All I want is to play a little, maybe have a nice successful raid, easy fast clear, bit of a fun with pals, maybe еto get an epic or two. It always brings mood up. Even though I work from home and it's much easier than from office, still I work a lot and last thing I want in the evening is to wipe on some super hard boss and get flamed by guildies for failing some hard mechanic. Wotlk is when all this "heroic" shit started and brought lots of stree and this is when I quit, never to return.
    Which is a shame - because it was not much later they introduced Flex difficulty (now normal) which may have filled that niche for you - much harder than what classic has to offer, yes, but certain fights would still be pretty simple for you. And obviously if thats STILL too tough, there is always lfr - there is nothing stopping you doing LFR as a guild, and its only a very small step up in difficulty from Classic raids.

    But if you are enjoying classic, then you may have found somewhere to call home anyway!

  5. #345
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Ladies and gentleman, the classic community in full blown defensive mode! Watching the handful of you still committed to this "classic is a DIFFERENT kind of hard" argument is like watching flat earthers in a debate.
    Why do you care?

  6. #346
    PvE is easy

    PvP isn't limited action bullshit, the fact most of you retailer pvpers still use vanilla bars says it all.

  7. #347
    Elemental Lord clevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    Which is a shame - because it was not much later they introduced Flex difficulty (now normal) which may have filled that niche for you - much harder than what classic has to offer, yes, but certain fights would still be pretty simple for you. And obviously if thats STILL too tough, there is always lfr - there is nothing stopping you doing LFR as a guild, and its only a very small step up in difficulty from Classic raids.

    But if you are enjoying classic, then you may have found somewhere to call home anyway!
    You really need to keep your arguments consistent. You keep arguing both sides of the issues which makes it hard not to think that you're posting for effect.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    You really need to keep your arguments consistent. You keep arguing both sides of the issues which makes it hard not to think that you're posting for effect.
    What argument?

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Mukind View Post
    PvE is easy

    PvP isn't limited action bullshit, the fact most of you retailer pvpers still use vanilla bars says it all.
    Blizzard actually made some changes to the action bars not that long ago so they're no longer the same as they were in vanilla.

  10. #350
    Salty Feline Overlord Beerbill Society's Avatar
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    I don't think its hard but you should put a lot of effort towards things, get buffs and consumables, crafts and such.

    It's a different game. Just like the rubick cube early years people thought that it was impossible to solve, today you can children doing it blind folded with one finger under 30 seconds, it's something old that people had a lot of time to practice and know all the rules and quirks before going into it.


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  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerbill Society View Post
    I don't think its hard but you should put a lot of effort towards things, get buffs and consumables, crafts and such.

    It's a different game. Just like the rubick cube early years people thought that it was impossible to solve, today you can children doing it blind folded with one finger under 30 seconds, it's something old that people had a lot of time to practice and know all the rules and quirks before going into it.
    Again, those are the people clearing it in 30-45 mins, maybe up to 1 hour. But people with zero experience, zero knowledge walked in on day 1 and full cleared in a few hours, without stacking buffs and chugging consumables. Others have shown the numbers - even if we say the top 100 guilds who take this very seriously smashed it out very quickly - even if we remove that extreme - it was still cleared by something like 1200 guilds on day one in a few hours - and those are just the ones who logged their kill.

  12. #352
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    If you want to take a stimulus-response view of games, sure. But... I don't. I play to have fun with people. Anyone who takes rewards in video games seriously is unbalanced, too.
    fun is also a reward in this context... you playing the game (input/work) and you are getting rewarded with a good feeling/fun (output).

    also read this:

    you misunderstood something. its about work/reward balance. each individual has its own comfort zone. The comfort zone can be left in both directions too easy and too hard difficulty. I for myself left mythic progress raiding some years ago because the difficulty bar has left my comfort zone at some point and it became too stressful and the fun factor faded away. But on the other hand vanilla or classic is way too easy to keep me attracted on a long term. It's acutally quite funny that the current dps performances of the top to mid tier raid guilds would destroy naxxramas already.
    Last edited by Millyraynge; 2020-02-16 at 07:11 PM.

  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by Millyraynge View Post
    fun is also a reward in this context... you playing the game (input/work) and you are getting rewarded with a good feeling/fun (output).

    also read this:
    We dropped down a difficulty for main raids for this reason - we no longer had the drive and commitment to be competitive at that level, so as a guild, we decided to focus on fun. We still enjoy the raids, but it is less demanding, allowing the quick afk to check the kids, grab a bear, phone call for work etc without causing too much disruption.

    We do SOME progression on mythic once we have full cleared and over geared, and we are no longer receiving any material reward for our efforts. Some of us also have spots in mythic raid teams and still progress through there, but as a guild, we generally focus on heroic more - we found the sweetspot for our guild, with our lives, and our timeframe.

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerbill Society View Post
    I don't think its hard but you should put a lot of effort towards things, get buffs and consumables, crafts and such.
    And make the game even easier??? No thanks, it's already way too easy without them.

  15. #355
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    And make the game even easier??? No thanks, it's already way too easy without them.
    Again, I don't agree the game is "too easy". Clearly many are enjoying the much easier content, and I have no problem with that at all.

    Like I said, we dropped down to heroic because we felt the effort was no longer worth it - in short, we were not having enough fun to justify the input. So for some, this is a great alternative if they find the much more demanding retail gameplay to require too much effort, with not enough enjoyment.

  16. #356
    Classic just demands a lot of your time. Its not hard, ever.
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  17. #357
    Quote Originally Posted by Djuntas View Post
    Classic just demands a lot of your time. Its not hard, ever.
    30mins isn't that much time /s

  18. #358
    If you can wipe in the game.. then it's not too easy.

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  19. #359
    Quote Originally Posted by Echocho View Post
    I feel that the community kinda lied to the players that came in fresh. Classic was painted as this hardcore super difficult game compared to a dumbed down super easy retail when in reality it's the complete opposite. Classes have like two buttons to press if they're lucky and bosses have almost no mechanics.

    Unless you're extremely horny for the best gear in the game with as little challenge as possible I can't really see how anyone could enjoy this version of raiding for very long. Struggle is kinda important for things to feel meaningful, even in a video game.
    Sad to hear that. I played Vanilla when it was actual content. And in my memory it was way more challenging than this brainless aoe mass murdering retail stuff. So i hoped, when finding the time, that i can get harder content in classic. But to invest 2-3 months to level up to 60, being bored because i leveled 10 chars in 2005-2007 and know all content well, just to have more easy endgame content than retail (non mythic).... sounds not good.

  20. #360
    Classic has a lot of content.

    You have to go make it.

    This is not retail. You are not handed stuff.

    Join the ironman/hardcore challenge community thate growing each day. We are starting up community events.

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