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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by dipzz View Post
    I think the issue is that these 2 expansions suffered from 1 year final raids, Timeless isle was a terrible design, Vashjir was also a terrible zone.
    I liked Vashj'ir, and it's a pity the storyline there just... stopped. On the other hand, it's not a zone you need to do more than once, and Mt. Hyjal is so much faster to level through.

    As for Timeless Isle, of all the 'small, no-flight' zones it's the best design, in my opinion. There's a clear flow from entry-point to summit, yet you can quickly return from the summit to the bottom. It has a wide variety of mobs, and because it's fairly small the high mob density is acceptable, if sometimes annoying. The chests respawn at a good rate and doing circuits for currency was worthwhile for a reasonable time before you'd purchased everything you'd want with them. It's vastly better than any since.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    WoD, allready did prun quite some abilities i think curse of the elements was one of it, but wod was still very playable, even due to some pruning on all classes.

    But legion killed destruction lock's class fantasy for me, when embers were finally removed and replaced by those generic soul shards.

    Such a bad move in class design, if it wasn't for the order hall and some legendaries i would have ended my lock right there.

    And that horrible change of the iconic (mop-wod) demo spec due to DHs.

    I like some QoL, but i prefere immersion and gameplay over it.
    I actually agree with you. I really don't like what they did with Warlock in Legion and I really, really don't like what they did to Affliction. I've shelved my lock at 115 permanently I think.
    Last edited by Relapses; 2020-02-18 at 12:04 AM.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Yet again, it was a problem on some encounters with some specs (BrM was broken for most of MoP) but the issue you described (tank is top DPS no matter what) didn't become endemic until SoO.
    Anywhere a tank could purposely tank a ton of damage was broken, so basically every fight on heroic back then.

    Even as early as heart of fear, the 4th boss with the million adds it came with, you could never touch a good tank.

    I'm a fan of MoP but vengeance was one of its most retarded additions and thats why it went with WoD....along with content, playable specs and fun.
    Last edited by Socialhealer; 2020-02-17 at 11:59 PM.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    Anywhere a tank could purposely tank a ton of damage was broken, so basically every fight on heroic back then.
    BrM was exceptionally good (bad?) at taking advantage of this since their kit naturally scaled well with Vengenace. But Warrior ultimately ended up outscaling BrM and was doing mongoloid damage late-SoO. I'm pretty sure, by the numbers, Prot Warrior was better DPS than Affliction. That's just dumb.

  5. #245
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Wrath enjoyed forward momentum from BC. Late BC saw the destruction of the in-game communities. There was a gradual erosion of the playerbase after that. All the extroverts didn't leave in one day. It took time for them to realize "hey, its not nearly as much fun when everyone is anonymous and content is made for small groups". There was a process of discovery at how bad things had become, followed by an exodus.

    Wrath was terrible. But it took quite a while for the disaster of the Wrath xpac to turn around the moonshot that was growing sub numbers and send it into a nosedive. Its like turning an aircraft carrier around.
    Funny. On my server Wrath was the best time for big communities. People got to know each other, and the other side, fighting in Windergrasp (the best 'world' PvP zone ever, IMO), and in the WG 'raids'. Also we had PuG raids from Naxx-25 onwards that had custom channels and semi-regular players, so they were more than a true-pug, and less than a guild raid group. People ran their alts in those, or if from 10-man guilds, ran their mains in the pug raid for the chance at some sweet 25-man gear.

    LK's introduction of LFG for 5-mans towards the end was one thing that hurt the community. What killed it was Cataclysm. Raid-finder was bad. Hardish entry raids was worse. But the real killer was 10-man and 25-man raids sharing lockouts. That meant if you raided with your guild, you could only raid in pug groups with an alt, and at that point LFR was quicker. Goodbye out of guild raiding community, and it never came back (some of us tried resurrecting it in MoP, but it was dead for good).

    BC was not what cost us these communities. Heck, Arenas, which you blame, helped us hold some together because you had communities of arena players and they overlapped with the raiders, making for a larger, more energetic community.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    BrM was exceptionally good (bad?) at taking advantage of this since their kit naturally scaled well with Vengenace. But Warrior ultimately ended up outscaling BrM and was doing mongoloid damage late-SoO. I'm pretty sure, by the numbers, Prot Warrior was better DPS than Affliction. That's just dumb.
    Nah if you're talking late, nothing touched affliction, you can't get your vengeance up high when warlocks are bursting 2.5million dps and killing the boss in 40 seconds.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    WoD Affliction was one of the best designed classes of all time. It really didn't even change that much from MoP. (MoP Soul Swap was way too fucking OP, it needed to get removed.) Destro didn't change much, either.
    I liked WoD Destro, I've never found a Demo design I really liked, and Affliction never worked for me until Legion (and in BfA they managed to ruin it, make Destro boring, and while Demo looks cool somehow it isn't in play - for me, at least).

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Socialhealer View Post
    Nah if you're talking late, nothing touched affliction, you can't get your vengeance up high when warlocks are bursting 2.5million dps and killing the boss in 40 seconds.
    Decided to look back at SoO to double check:

    https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...5#difficulty=4

    Malk and Iron Jugg were the two "single target" fights in SoO and both have tanks in the number one spot. Locks were broken, for sure, but by and large it was tanks who ultimately ended up on top.

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    The basic theme seemed "too uncool", the edgelord part of the playerbase was irritated by "Kungfu Panda" and just dropped the game. It's pobably the same kind of people who are "into" Sylvanas. Rofl.
    Why yes, of course that people that like a character you don't dislike an expansion you like. They also dislike the movies you do, vote for the politicians on the opposite side of the political spectrum as those you support and laugh only at the jokes that don't make you funny. And, that goes without saying, they kick your dog whenever you're not looking.


    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    WoD Affliction was one of the best designed classes of all time. It really didn't even change that much from MoP. (MoP Soul Swap was way too fucking OP, it needed to get removed.) Destro didn't change much, either.
    MoP Soul Swap was mostly OP because snapshotting was OP. WoD lost Affli Fel Flame so there was nothing you could do while moving when there was no need to recast dots, casting while moving and some other things. PvP side it also made Howl of Terror a talent instead of baseline just after 5.4 made it so again (it was initially made into a talent in 5.0). WoD's biggest upside over MoP was SB: Haunt and it's mostly because of how cool the animation was.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  10. #250
    Look at youtube/trends. 9 million people watch literal garbage and the really good content gets viewed by like 200k people.

    So participation is not a metric of how good something is.

    No more questions, your honor.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Exkrementor View Post
    Look at youtube/trends. 9 million people watch literal garbage and the really good content gets viewed by like 200k people.

    So participation is not a metric of how good something is.

    No more questions, your honor.
    Judging by the fact that "9 million people" are watching it, it's probably just because you have different tastes.

    Borat has a 91% on rotten tomatoes. I watched 10 minutes of it and shut it off, it was the worst movie I've ever tried to watch.

  12. #252
    MOP is the one xpac that aged really really well for some reason.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Luxeley View Post
    MOP is the one xpac that aged really really well for some reason.
    Perfect mixture of old and new honestly.

    It was before they started removing most of the enchants, the tank stats, the permanent sockets. It was before they removed snapshotting.

    But it was also after they learned more about smoothing gameplay out.

  14. #254
    Quote Originally Posted by Onikaroshi View Post
    I keep hearing the launch was bad, but I was on a full server and had zero issues /shrug I know alliance had a stupid bottleneck.
    I was playing alliance and for a long while at launch the part where you fly around to blow up ships didn't have any buttons or anything, so you were literally flying in circles for however long it took to get it fixed, granted it wasn't as bad as WoD, but it definitely wasn't smooth.

  15. #255
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Hellscream View Post
    I was playing alliance and for a long while at launch the part where you fly around to blow up ships didn't have any buttons or anything, so you were literally flying in circles for however long it took to get it fixed, granted it wasn't at bad as WoD, but it definitely wasn't smooth.
    Yea, that i heard was bad, but think about it, you go a free unlimited flight!

  16. #256
    It continued the downward trend of cataclysm. Not as many people reversed the downward trend at launch due to "lol pandas" and the initial 5.0 dailies. Otherwise it was a solid expansion. If anything, Wrath numbers were just too high and inflated thanks to Arthas and WoW being a pop culture icon at the time.
    Last edited by GreenJesus; 2020-02-18 at 01:33 AM.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
    Wait so disliking the games interpretation of the Chinese culture makes me a racist? Sound logic mate.
    Nope, it doesn't. I personally wasn't a big fan of it either: simply because in the concept of pandaren was more of an japanese-like architecture and setting, and yes, i would rather have this than the chinese version. But let's be honest: many people are racists. And yes, it often will be the reason people don't play it, because they are actually ones. If you dislike it: Ok, but if you hate the game just because it has this in ip: then you are porbably one.

  18. #258
    MMOs in general started to fade at that point.

  19. #259
    Quote Originally Posted by Worgenmaniac View Post
    Cataclysm started the downward trend. The big difference was the ramp up of difficulty for heroic dungeons.

    The beginning of mist you can see it picked back up. But the initial content wasn't captivating enough to keep players. And I think the overall them if the expansion was great, but more people thought otherwise.

    And then Warlords came along and did more damage.

  20. #260
    Epic! Pakheth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by froschhure View Post
    Uhm, not sure if i remember this wrong. But cata had at least 2 starting zones and WOD is worse than mop yes.
    Yeah MoP had only one starting zone but after Jade Forest you could either go to Krazarang, Valley of Four Winds or Kun Lai. And the quest hubs weren't linear like in Cata or WoD. It wasn't on rails.

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