Michael Flynn : soon to be completely exonerated

[Orbitus]

Actually he just plead Not Guilty.

Wrong, he hasn't changed his plea, because he can't just do that. The judge hasn't even had a hearing for that. He can try, but he will most likely end up getting time if he does that.

- - - Updated - - -

So now I'm no different than those morons that followed Jim Jones? You're irrational.

No, you really aren't any different than the morons that followed Jim Jones, that is why I called you a cult member. Because you still believe a lying, racist, homophobic, sexist piece of shit.

[Zeth Hawkins]

# of eligible voters ~ over 200 million

# that voted for Trump 62,984,828

You're curving harder than a kindergarten teacher trying to make all the snotty brats happy.

What is the purpose of you being disingenuous regarding this? It is plainly obvious that “US voters” is referring to those that actually voted.

[Xirrohon]

Wrong, he hasn't changed his plea, because he can't just do that. The judge hasn't even had a hearing for that. He can try, but he will most likely end up getting time if he does that.

Wth are you talking about? The Prosecutors that just quit, were trying to block him from changing his Plea. This has been doing on for over a month now, with him asking to change his Plea. Do you not follow the trial? Even the Judge asked him during the trial, do you not want to change your plea?

[Belize]

What is the purpose of you being disingenuous regarding this? It is plainly obvious that “US voters” is referring to those that actually voted.

Do you ever get tired of justifying what others say?

He said:

"Cult" consisting of roughly 1/2 of US voters? <-- Case in point

US voters means US voters, if he wanted to say "Thise who voted in 2016" then he should have.

Words have meaning, FYI.

[Endus]

Actually he just plead Not Guilty.

You can't just change your guilty plea and have the courts accept it. Your prior plea remains in effect, until you can convince the court to accept the change in your plea. And that requires you to make a positive case, justifying why you would have lied, the first time around.

This doesn't get a lot of attention when a not-guilty plea changes to guilty, because prosecutors aren't going to challenge that, but the reverse? It's a massive issue, and it's neither easy nor simple.

It's like when the police have a signed confession. You can get that thrown out as evidence, but first, you need to prove, positively, that it was coerced out of you unlawfully. You can't just ask and have it thrown out because you wish you hadn't done it.

Until you make that case before the court, your guilty plea stands. It remains to be seen if Flynn even has grounds for this, or is just fighting a desperate delaying action while he hopes for a pardon from Trump.

[Orange Joe]

Do you ever get tired of justifying what others say?

He said:


US voters means US voters, if he wanted to say "Thise who voted in 2016" then he should have.

Words have meaning, FYI.

As much as I disagree with Doc. Context is a thing. It was pretty clear what he meant.........

[DocSavageFan]

US voters means US voters, if he wanted to say "Thise who voted in 2016" then he should have.

Words have meaning, FYI.

I meant those who voted in 2016. I thought this was self evident. Apparently not.

If words have meaning...please explain how roughly 1/2 of "those who voted in 2016" could possibly be considered as belonging to a cult.

[Belize]

As much as I disagree with Doc. Context is a thing. It was pretty clear what he meant.........

Different take: He tried to overinflate the number of people that support Trump in an attempt to back up a feeble argument.

[DocSavageFan]

Different take: He tried to overinflate the number of people that support Trump in an attempt to back up a feeble argument.

I'm done responding to your nonsense. Let's get back on topic.

[Xirrohon]

You can't just change your guilty plea and have the courts accept it. Your prior plea remains in effect, until you can convince the court to accept the change in your plea. And that requires you to make a positive case, justifying why you would have lied, the first time around.

This doesn't get a lot of attention when a not-guilty plea changes to guilty, because prosecutors aren't going to challenge that, but the reverse? It's a massive issue, and it's neither easy nor simple.

It's like when the police have a signed confession. You can get that thrown out as evidence, but first, you need to prove, positively, that it was coerced out of you unlawfully. You can't just ask and have it thrown out because you wish you hadn't done it.

Until you make that case before the court, your guilty plea stands. It remains to be seen if Flynn even has grounds for this, or is just fighting a desperate delaying action while he hopes for a pardon from Trump.

You should stop taking legal advice from Avennati. Flynn has been trying to change his Plea for over a month now. You also probably forget that at the start of the trial Judge Sullivan flat out asked Flynn if he wanted to change his plea, pretty much suggesting that he should.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/12/polit...ent/index.html

[Shalcker]

Based on evidence and his willingness to work with prosecution to lower his sentence. Not on calling his adult children orphans.....

So, are you willing to reverse this decision based on his current unwillingness? Or does it only work one way for some reason?

After all, my understanding of Flynn as not guilty is also based on evidence and his willingness to withdraw guilty plea despite potentially harsher sentence if his tactic fails.

- - - Updated - - -

You can't just change your guilty plea and have the courts accept it. Your prior plea remains in effect, until you can convince the court to accept the change in your plea. And that requires you to make a positive case, justifying why you would have lied, the first time around.
...
Until you make that case before the court, your guilty plea stands. It remains to be seen if Flynn even has grounds for this, or is just fighting a desperate delaying action while he hopes for a pardon from Trump.

Flynn's lawyer argument is available for everyone to read:
https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...56478/Full.pdf

[Endus]

You should stop taking legal advice from Avennati. Flynn has been trying to change his Plea for over a month now. You also probably forget that at the start of the trial Judge Sullivan flat out asked Flynn if he wanted to change his plea, pretty much suggesting that he should.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/12/polit...ent/index.html

And?

It doesn't matter how long Flynn has been asking to change his plea. He needs to provide, at the least, evocative evidence that he was unlawfully pressured to give a false plea. Which he has not. Claims made without strong basis in evidence, as listed in his request as linked above, do not qualify. There's a lot of imputations assumed without being proven in there, so it's hard to take it as a claim of a slam-dunk proof.

And at the start of a trial, ensuring that a plaintiff is sure of their plea is pretty SOP. It doesn't indicate that the Judge thought he was wrong to plead guilty, as you imply based on nothing, just a statement for clarity.

[Ripster42]

You should stop taking legal advice from Avennati. Flynn has been trying to change his Plea for over a month now. You also probably forget that at the start of the trial Judge Sullivan flat out asked Flynn if he wanted to change his plea, pretty much suggesting that he should.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/12/polit...ent/index.html

The length of time he's been trying to change his plea has no informative value on the merits of his case for being able to change his plea. The story you linked just says prosecutors aren't going along with his request, flynn gave up a bunch of evidence that his new lawyers are fighting over , and that flynn doesn't want to go to jail. And, to be clear, the evidence they're fighting over is inculpatory or flynn's new lawyers wouldn't be fighting over it, and the inculpatory evidence wasn't a lie, or he'd be facing charges for lying to prosecutors when he made those statements.

And judge sullivan doesn't think he's not guilty. He's the guy who said flynn had betrayed the US and sold out his country after seeing the evidence, then during the FIRST sentencing hearing, effectively told both prosecutors and flynn that he wasn't going to follow their recommended sentencing and was going to enforce much harsher punishment unless flynn was able to provide more cooperation. See if you can figure out his motivation for his attempts at changing his plea. He had stopped cooperation efforts. He's about to get jail time in excess of what he got the prosecutors to recommend with his plea deal because the judge who is presiding over the case, sullivan, thinks prosecutors cut him too good of a deal for his crimes.

[DocSavageFan]

If Judge Sullivan denies Flynn's request to withdraw his guilty plea, Flynn will be sentenced and will most likely appeal with the sentence stayed during the process.

If the judge accepts Flynn’s request, the government can still proceed on the current charge of lying to the FBI. Win/win imo. Let's see what justice actually looks like.

[Draco-Onis]

If Judge Sullivan denies Flynn's request to withdraw his guilty plea, Flynn will be sentenced and will most likely appeal with the sentence stayed during the process.

If the judge accepts Flynn’s request, the government can still proceed on the current charge of lying to the FBI. Win/win imo. Let's see what justice actually looks like.

It's amusing seeing all you shills forget the whole undeclared foreign agent part of this guy's resume, he sold out his country.

[Shalcker]

It's amusing seeing all you shills forget the whole undeclared foreign agent part of this guys resume, he sold out his country.

Nope, him "selling out his country" never happened according to government prosecutors.

He wouldn't get recommendation of half-a-year probation otherwise.

[Draco-Onis]

He wouldn't get recommendation of half-a-year probation otherwise.

He got the recommendation because he sang like a canary.

[Ripster42]

If Judge Sullivan denies Flynn's request to withdraw his guilty plea, Flynn will be sentenced and will most likely appeal with the sentence stayed during the process.

If the judge accepts Flynn’s request, the government can still proceed on the current charge of lying to the FBI. Win/win imo. Let's see what justice actually looks like.

What gives you that impression? At that point he'd've been convicted and sentenced. Convicts don't get to remain free while on appeal, unless the judge who presided over the case (sullivan, who, having seen the evidence, thinks flynn is guilty, and sold out his country), thinks they're not going to get jail time.

- - - Updated - - -

Nope, him "selling out his country" never happened according to government prosecutors.

He wouldn't get recommendation of half-a-year probation otherwise.

This is nonsense. They said they hadn't considered trying him for treason. Which is very specifically defined in the constitution. Taking bribes for government acts from non-enemy states isn't treason.

[Shalcker]

He got the recommendation because he sang like a canary.

You mean that case where
Judge tosses conviction against Michael Flynn's ex-lobbying partner, Bijan Rafiekian
A jury convicted Bijan Rafiekian in July, but a judge said "the evidence was insufficient as a matter of law ... "
?

There doesn't seem to be anything else connected to Flynn.

[Orange Joe]

So, are you willing to reverse this decision based on his current unwillingness? Or does it only work one way for some reason?

After all, my understanding of Flynn as not guilty is also based on evidence and his willingness to withdraw guilty plea despite potentially harsher sentence if his tactic fails.

- - - Updated - - -

Flynn's lawyer argument is available for everyone to read:
https://assets.documentcloud.org/doc...56478/Full.pdf

Try reading that statement again. Here I will even bold the important part you ignored to make your nonsensical "point"

Based on evidence and his willingness to work with prosecution to lower his sentence. Not on calling his adult children orphans.....