Does Alleria also officially lead the High Elves?

[Aucald]

Are Void elves truly thalassian anymore? They were half-way into becoming void entities
I'd think most if not all of their connection to the Sunwell is gone, specially now that it's infused with Light

Alleria did want to at least see the well though, but her voidification was radically different than the others

Thalassian is a nationality, and since the Void Elves essentially dissolved their loyalty to Quel'Thalas and Silvermoon and embraced Alleria and the Alliance I'd probably say that they're not, no. At least not until such time as Silvermoon rejoins the Alliance and the Void Elves are able to return to their ancestral home. Alleria also wants Silvermoon to rejoin the Alliance, finding their current association with the Horde to be untenable and undesirable due to her own history.

Not really sure about whether or not they're still connected or able to access the Sunwell, but as I said above it seems doubtful. Regardless, the Sunwell is still an important and almost holy aspect of their history and traditions - all High, Blood, and possibly even Void Elves revere the Sunwell somewhat no matter their current state.

[elbleuet]

Thalassian is a nationality, and since the Void Elves essentially dissolved their loyalty to Quel'Thalas and Silvermoon and embraced Alleria and the Alliance I'd probably say that they're not, no. At least not until such time as Silvermoon rejoins the Alliance and the Void Elves are able to return to their ancestral home. Alleria also wants Silvermoon to rejoin the Alliance, finding their current association with the Horde to be untenable and undesirable due to her own history.

Not really sure about whether or not they're still connected or able to access the Sunwell, but as I said above it seems doubtful. Regardless, the Sunwell is still an important and almost holy aspect of their history and traditions - all High, Blood, and possibly even Void Elves revere the Sunwell somewhat no matter their current state.

But the Void elves are still loyal to Silvermoon. Though not to the current thalassian government

[Utigarde]

There is no single leader of the high elves, but if there were, Alleria definitely would not be it. She's only been seen hanging around void elves (not even commanding after BfL, just advising Umbric), and high elves haven't shown up in a meaningful way since her return to show if she is or not. Vereesa isn't the official leader either, she just commands the largest group of them.

Would have been nice if they had shown up more in the 7th Legion though, given their explicit partnership in Wrath.

[Varodoc]

Are Void elves truly thalassian anymore? They were half-way into becoming void entities
I'd think most if not all of their connection to the Sunwell is gone, specially now that it's infused with Light

Alleria did want to at least see the well though, but her voidification was radically different than the others

They still consider themselves Thalassian. Magister Umbric seeks to bring Quel'Thalas back into the fold.

There is no single leader of the high elves, but if there were, Alleria definitely would not be it. She's only been seen hanging around void elves (not even commanding after BfL, just advising Umbric), and high elves haven't shown up in a meaningful way since her return to show if she is or not. Vereesa isn't the official leader either, she just commands the largest group of them.

Would have been nice if they had shown up more in the 7th Legion though, given their explicit partnership in Wrath.

Alleria is not an advisor to Umbric. She is co-leader, and probably ranks higher than him:

1) The other Ren'dorei, Umbric included, rely on her teachings;
2) She commands Umbric to aid the 7th Legion in Zandalar;
3) She is the one who appears at the meetings with the other Alliance leaders (Umbric didn't appear when Anduin told every allied leader that the war was over).

[Aucald]

But the Void elves are still loyal to Silvermoon. Though not to the current thalassian government

Silvermoon would pretty much be synonymous with the current government there - so I'd say they're definitely not loyal to it any more (and for good reasons from their perspective). They still likely love their homeland and wish to return, yes; but as exiles currently living in Stormwind or other Alliance cities they're not Thalassian at the moment. At least not politically speaking, as they've severed their ties fully with Silvermoon and the Blood Elves.

[Grazrug]

They are not Thalassian. They're alliance. Their loyalty lies with the kingdoms of humans. Not the official Thalassian government.

[elbleuet]

Silvermoon would pretty much be synonymous with the current government there - so I'd say they're definitely not loyal to it any more (and for good reasons from their perspective). They still likely love their homeland and wish to return, yes; but as exiles currently living in Stormwind or other Alliance cities they're not Thalassian at the moment. At least not politically speaking, as they've severed their ties fully with Silvermoon and the Blood Elves.

I really don't see your point actually Aucald.
Being against a government is being against its country ? What ?
Vereesa explicitely states Silvermoon is still her homeland and is still ready to defend it against the Amani. Just like Alleria did everything in her power to protect the Sunwell because she still cares for it. You can be loyal to your country and not loyal to the government ruling it.

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They are not Thalassian. They're alliance. Their loyalty lies with the kingdoms of humans. Not the official Thalassian government.

That's precisely why Vereesa travelled to the Ghostlands to defend Quel'Thalas from the Amani Threat, because she's not Thalassian and doesn't care for her homeland.

Seriously..

[Grazrug]

I really don't see your point actually Aucald.
Being against a government is being against its country ? What ?
Vereesa explicitely states Silvermoon is still her homeland and is still ready to defend it against the Amani. Just like Alleria did everything in her power to protect the Sunwell because she still cares for it. You can be loyal to your country and not loyal to the government ruling it.

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That's precisely why Vereesa travelled to the Ghostlands to defend Quel'Thalas from the Amani Threat, because she's not Thalassian and doesn't care for her homeland.

Seriously..

They want them to join the alliance because they all love their half human kids and husband's so much. So yes. They lost the right to be true Thalassian. The spirit of Anasterian and Kael alike would rotate in their graves.

[Obelisk Kai]

As I said above, and your quote confirms, going cold turkey is indeed possible but led to a high rate of attrition due to the arduousness of the process. Those High Elves remaining in Dalaran had more success in managing their addiction through access to magical items and with the aid of the Kirin Tor - weaning themselves off the Sunwell's absence slowly but surely, or managing the condition without succumbing to either withdrawal-based illness and death or conversion to the Wretched. Permanent damage being possible doesn't mean it is guaranteed, after all, and damage alone isn't necessarily fatal in the long-term sense.

Your quote goes to show that both Kael'thas and Illidan were wrong about Arcane addiction, as it is possible to overcome it - it's just an arduous and long process that neither individual wished to undergo for reasons of their own.


Being able to feel the Sunwell again doesn't mean they're necessarily dependent upon it anymore - it's a power source they can now access once more, but not one they're required to access in order to maintain internal equilibrium. It feels different because it's composition is now different, as well; with the heart of M'uru being used to re-ignite it so that it now contains Light energies in addition to the Arcane. As your quote above illustrates, permanent withdrawal is possible albeit at high risk, which goes to show that those who did go through this process and emerged mostly unscathed would be free of their dependence despite still being connected to the Sunwell's essence.

I think it would be common sense for those who broke the addition not to re-embrace it, but we don't really know either way. I find no basis for the idea they immediately embraced the restored Sunwell, either; it may be a personal or individual decision depending on the High Elven exile in question. Those who managed their addiction might have, and those who overcame it might not. We simply don't know at this point in the story.

But again, the process was not viable.

Take for example the High Elves of Dalaran. They didn't break the addiction, they found replacements in magical artifacts they could siphon mana from rather than living beings. The difference between what they were doing and what the Blood Elves were doing was that the artifacts were inanimate objects, whereas the Blood Elves fed on vermin but that difference is immaterial when compared to the outcome, the siphoning of arcane magic from an outside source to sate the addiction.

One can easily suppose that Rhonin, as a senior member of the Kirin Tor post Warcraft 3, was able to ensure that his wife got her share of these relics to ensure she got her fix. As these high elves were sustained by arcane magic, just as the blood elves were, then it cannot be assumed that when the infinite and warm energies of the sunwell were restored that they didn't instantly partake of it. Quite the contrary, it has to be assumed that they started consuming energy from it again almost instantly because they never went cold turkey.

We also have no evidence that the dependence on arcane magic could ever be overcome, the quote confirms the risks after all of going without arcane energies and it maybe someone could banish the pangs but still fall prey to the long term side effects of withdrawal.

However, I have to be honest, I think the debate is somewhat moot. The number of high elves is known to be catastrophically low, and the vast majority of those who still exist dwell, likely non-coincidentally I might add, in the city of magic capable of helping them through their withdrawal with substitutes for the sunwell, rather than cold turkey. Those who went cold turkey and survived are probably incredibly low in number to the point where it could actually be a unique character trait.
And that leaves aside that the Sunwell is a beacon of light and arcane energies now, one whose radiance transcends time, space and all dimensions (Blood and Honor confirmed it's infinite range and Blood Elves have no difficulty offworld) to sustain the thalassian elves connected to it. I imagine to try and ignore that beacon would be like trying to ignore the sun...if you were being forced to look at it with your eyelids cut off. I would actually be very surprised if they ever dealt with anyone who was still 'cold turkeying' their addiction in future.

No idea on whether to Void Elves can access it, but I'd assume their transformation probably severed that connection. I'd agree that access to the Sunwell now would probably be deleterious to their health, and it's possible that Void transfiguration cured them of their addictions entirely (or as you said supplanted them with an addiction to Void energies).

It's common sense, but given the nature of thalassian elves is predicated on an addiction to magic of some description and given the transformative powers of the void have now entirely infused them, I think it is safest to assume they are still addicted, but they are now sated by a direct connection to the void rather than to the sunwell. I don't think anyone can look at a Void infused elf and think they maybe cured of their addiction. They are drowning in void energies after all.

[Grazrug]

I really don't see your point actually Aucald.
Being against a government is being against its country ? What ?
Vereesa explicitely states Silvermoon is still her homeland and is still ready to defend it against the Amani. Just like Alleria did everything in her power to protect the Sunwell because she still cares for it. You can be loyal to your country and not loyal to the government ruling it.

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That's precisely why Vereesa travelled to the Ghostlands to defend Quel'Thalas from the Amani Threat, because she's not Thalassian and doesn't care for her homeland.

Seriously..

No you can't. In real world logic they're defectors that joined a different nation.

[Aucald]

I really don't see your point actually Aucald.
Being against a government is being against its country ? What ?
Vereesa explicitely states Silvermoon is still her homeland and is still ready to defend it against the Amani. Just like Alleria did everything in her power to protect the Sunwell because she still cares for it. You can be loyal to your country and not loyal to the government ruling it.

Insofar as a government is the country, yes. Vereesa and the other High Elven exiles, as well as the Void Elves in all likelihood, still love their homeland - nothing can strip that from them. But they're no longer citizens of it by dint of exile - they can claim its culture, but any citizenship they had is null and void for as long as the current regime is in charge of Silvermoon and Quel'Thalas. There's a distinct difference between being less than patriotic, and being an exile - the High Elves, Vereesa, Alleria, and the Void Elves are all the latter.

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But again, the process was not viable.

Take for example the High Elves of Dalaran. They didn't break the addiction, they found replacements in magical artifacts they could siphon mana from rather than living beings. The difference between what they were doing and what the Blood Elves were doing was that the artifacts were inanimate objects, whereas the Blood Elves fed on vermin but that difference is immaterial when compared to the outcome, the siphoning of arcane magic from an outside source to sate the addiction.

One can easily suppose that Rhonin, as a senior member of the Kirin Tor post Warcraft 3, was able to ensure that his wife got her share of these relics to ensure she got her fix. As these high elves were sustained by arcane magic, just as the blood elves were, then it cannot be assumed that when the infinite and warm energies of the sunwell were restored that they didn't instantly partake of it. Quite the contrary, it has to be assumed that they started consuming energy from it again almost instantly because they never went cold turkey.

We also have no evidence that the dependence on arcane magic could ever be overcome, the quote confirms the risks after all of going without arcane energies and it maybe someone could banish the pangs but still fall prey to the long term side effects of withdrawal.

The developer quote you provided belies this, though; it confirms that breaking the addiction was indeed possible albeit fraught with danger as well as being an arduous one. As long as a subject met the presumed requirements (e.g. having the willpower, wherewithal, and overall good health) beforehand they could over time overcome the Arcane addiction more or less unaided. As I said previously the High Elven exiles of Dalaran probably didn't break the addiction inasmuch as they managed its symptoms, using the aforementioned magical items and/or the care of the Kirin Tor. However we don't know anything about their connection to or relationship with the rekindled Sunwell. In point of fact, the events surrounding Quel'Lithien Lodge in the Eastern Plaguelands goes to show that some High Elven exiles may not have reconnected to the Sunwell for reasons unknown, relying instead on some mysterious power source found by Renthar Hawkspear that turned the lot of them into Wretched.

The process being risky isn't tantamount to be non-viable or impossible to undertake, it just means it has serious risks to those who undertake it. That it can be undertaken speaks to its viability.

It's common sense, but given the nature of thalassian elves is predicated on an addiction to magic of some description and given the transformative powers of the void have now entirely infused them, I think it is safest to assume they are still addicted, but they are now sated by a direct connection to the void rather than to the sunwell. I don't think anyone can look at a Void infused elf and think they maybe cured of their addiction. They are drowning in void energies after all.

We know very little about how the Void works as a power source, and whether or not it is addictive in the same manner as the Arcane or Fel, and even less about the physiology of the Void Elves following their transformation. I think it remains to be seen as to what their relationship vis-a-vis the Sunwell is, and for now we can only speculate based on what little we do know.

[Nurvus]

void elves =/= high elves

Actually, Void Elves were a portion of High Elves and Blood Elves that decided to find in the Void a solution to their addiction.

[Aucald]

Actually, Void Elves were a portion of High Elves and Blood Elves that decided to find in the Void a solution to their addiction.

Void Elves are actually Blood Elves who were banished from Silvermoon due to their curiosity about and exploration of Void magic, which is shown to be a danger to the stability of the Sunwell. Before their banishment they were citizens of Quel'Thalas in good standing, and Blood Elves. Upon becoming Void Elves they renounced their citizenship to Quel'Thalas and joined Alleria and the Alliance completely.

[Soon-TM]

Except the Void Elves because while not confirmed it is logical to assume that a void based physiology is incompatible with a light based energy source. They likely sate their addiction through their connection to the void now.

It also seems that letting a void elf anywhere near the Sunwell might be a very, VERY bad idea.

[Garretdejiko]

Same here.., these topics ate killing every viber in my body and my soul is nearly destroyed by the liked of ravenmoon and that 1 super alleria fan who pops up in every thread that has anything to do with elves. All these topic these guys make are all coming down to 1 thing: high elf. The newsfeed on frontpage has the word elf/highborne or alleria in it 9 out of the 10 times.

Collect your essays on high elves and put them where they belong.. yeaaa you guessed it: the big nerdy high elves thread.

Sorry about the wording, but this is making many people annoyed to say the least.

The best solution about these left and right high elves, is to focus on the actual story and give these.. void elves more story, so either join the blood elves or void elves and let the high elf bs die.

You have to give the Alleriabro credit, he's so commited to his waifu. Went to his last forum posts and Ctrl+F Alleria. Alleriabro's on a mission.

[Powerogue]

Last we saw official leaders of each was Suramar, where it was Vereesa. We've never seen Alleria make any power moves against the Silver Covenant.

[Maljinwo]

Last we saw official leaders of each was Suramar, where it was Vereesa. We've never seen Alleria make any power moves against the Silver Covenant.

She doesn't need to do much.
Vereesa is completely overshadowed by her two sisters in everything. Alleria could probably walk into Dalaran and start giving orders to the Silver Covenant and no one would bat an eye

[Soon-TM]

I already bumped the Alteraci Human thread and I'm afraid I'll get banned for real if I bumped another one; sorry

Anyway, if you think the High Elf fanboys/fangirls were annoying enough, watch me flood and spam Alteraci Human suggestions

I'm sure it won't be as bad as the high elf or void elf fans. Especially the latter

[Varodoc]

It also seems that letting a void elf anywhere near the Sunwell might be a very, VERY bad idea.

It's also a very, VERY bad idea to have a huge source of light energy, at least if we judge by what happened in AU Draenor.

Hmm, let me apply the logic of Sylvanas fanboys:

"Actually, Alleria did nothing wrong. We don't really know what her plans were. Maybe she saw the future and wanted to stop Lightforged invasion by blowing up the Sunwell. We just don't know enough right now, wait for the full picture. Lor'themar is a pussy."

In all seriousness, it wouldn't surprise me if the existence of the Light-infused Sunwell ended up biting the Sin'dorei in the ass. If the Ethereals can use it as a nexus for their forces, there's no reason why the Naaru can't do that either.

[Soon-TM]

In all seriousness, it wouldn't surprise me if the existence of the Light-infused Sunwell ended up biting the Sin'dorei in the ass. If the Ethereals can use it as a nexus for their forces, there's no reason why the Naaru can't do that either.

Nice headcanon. Btw, nowhere in my post I talked about Sylvanas (in fact I find her cringey as all !@#$, one of the worst written characters in the entire franchise) but for some odd reason, you had to mention her nevertheless. The other guy was right, the only thing worse than Sylvanas fanbois are Sylvanas haters