Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[beanman12345]

If they had subpoenaed him in the fall, the court case still wouldn't be settled right now and impeachment would be on indefinite hold. And then Dems would have to fight a different PR battle: that they're just holding an executioner's axe over the President, and not doing things in a timely manner so that the business of the country can keep going.

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Skroe, the difference between you, as a conservative, and us, as progressives, is that you see Trump as an anomaly of the system, whereas we see him as the inevitable result of that system.

You, for example, probably still think Reagan was a great President. He wasn't. He was a piece of shit President, both as a person, and as a politician. It continued into Bush Sr's abortion of a Presidency, got worse when his behind-the-curtains criminal cronies came in front of the curtain for his son's Presidency, and culminated in Trump. It's been 40 years of fucking literal immorality in Republican Presidents that has led to this moment.

And I'm even giving you a pass on Nixon because at least Republicans back then were horrified by Nixon and his criminal behavior. There hasn't been a good Republican President since Eisenhower, if you exclude Ford who never really wanted to be President and didn't run for any Presidential terms on his own, and just finished Nixon's term out.

Edit: Then, I'm also giving you a pass on Joe McCarthy, because even though he represents the utter rot at the center of the Republican party since the 50s, he was only a Senator who luckily died before he could even think to run for the Presidency, which he probably would have, on a Red Scare agenda.

Ford did have presidential aspirations, he ran and lost to Carter though. He wasn't a terrible president, not as good as Eisenhower though. I agree with everything else you said.

[Elegiac]

What the hell is a whackobin? Anyway I’m not a right winger, I’m a progressive who wants to see policies aimed at everyone, not social engineering targeted at changing the number of minorities who go to Harvard.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobin

People cosplaying as Jacobins. Nothing about that implies being right wing.

That’s certainly driven by my background, I grew up in a small multiracial city with a ton of white suburbs around us, and I now teach in a similar district. I’ve seen firsthand how policies constantly promoted by our paternalistic liberal neighbors (who would never dare send their kids to an “urban” school) have messed us up.

We’re heavily discouraged from disciplining problem children because racial disparities in discipline rates will be treated as racism. We can’t group students by capability until high school because “research” claims that heterogeneous grouping helps low performers and doesn’t affect high performers (tell that to all the parents dropping an extra 400k on a house so they can avoid the urban school). Our state has opened its arms to immigrants, yet all the affordable housing is built in cities who then can’t appropriately fund their school systems while the suburbs keep their zoning laws iron tight and are impeccable. I heard a recruiter from an Ivy League school tell a guidance counselor that they loved coming to our school to find minorities. Meanwhile, white flight is accelerating and I worry that we will be destroyed.

"We can't do anything because we'll be accused of being racist/bigoted" isn't generally something that people who don't hold racist or bigoted viewpoints are typically concerned about, comrade.

This doesn’t mean I’m opposed to universal healthcare and a higher minimum wage.

Not at all. That just means I was correct in identifying your belief systems as brocialist and thus loathsome as all hell.

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It's almost like calling Bernie Supporters digital brown shirts would make them upset. Odd indeed.

Yeah, it's kinda disrespectful to political historians.

The more accurate analogy is digital red raggers.

[Elegiac]

I wish that was true man, but it’s not. On suspension rates:

You have two ethnic groups. One is highly educated and kids tend to live in two parent homes. They tend to be relatively comfortable.

The other group is very poor. Parents are terribly educated. Single parent/lives with grandma is far more common. Drugs are everywhere in the community.

Which students are going to be a bigger behavior problem in school? How do you not discipline one more than the other? Do you have different expectations based on ethnicity?

You can doubtless understand why I as a red blooded socialist want absolutely nothing to do with this brand of "progressivism".

The caucasity.

[infinitemeridian]

I think Warren’s done as long as Bernie doesn’t make a mistake.

Bloomberg might be the real deal though. He’s got some compelling things going for him. New Yorkers loved him as their mayor and unlike Trump he’s

A: Self made
B: Actually a billionaire (many times over)

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This wasn’t about an issue debated between the candidates. It was a private conversation clearly going to devolve into a he said/she said. One of those things that just riles people up yet is ultimately not resolvable in any way. How do you see that as helping win the race?

Bloomberg is also much, MUCH worse than Trump in terms of being a completely unlikable PoS.

[PACOX]

The Bernie cult is now praising Fox news while lambasting other mainstream media outlets. Its like they aspire to mimic Trump's cult as completely as possible.

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020...-it-with-msnbc

Praising Fox News is silly. Using them to make the argument that MSNBC is is being shady is not. MSNBC has done some things in regards to Sanders that not even Fox News would do. Less praise and more, "look at what you're becoming."

Pretending that MSNBC (let's say some shows and anchors) isn't biased against Sanders is like arguing that Fox News is actually fair and balanced.

[Elegiac]

My post is updated, I encourage you to read it and respond. And you’re not offering solutions. I laid out a real scenario for you and I’m asking you where I’m wrong. Easy to just say “you’re white” and... I guess that’s an argument? Idk.

I was a secondary educator for some years before finally ditching education in the US since it's not a respectable profession in the public eye. And am also white, incidentally.

But that's neither here nor there.

[beanman12345]

Bloomberg is also much, MUCH worse than Trump in terms of being a completely unlikable PoS.

Bloomberg's billions aren't gonna save him from the ass reaming that's coming his way tomorrow night. He's basically fucked any chance of any democrat of winning because regardless if he wins or loses the primary, the other 1/2 dozen candidates can't endorse or be endorsed by him without looking like giant hypocrites.

[Elegiac]

Bloomberg's billions aren't gonna save him from the ass reaming that's coming his way tomorrow night.

A very valid point, and something which Politico also covered.

Bloomberg's major weakness from an electoral standpoint has always been that he does not do well when he isn't in a choreographed environment - and by not doing well, I mean such colourful incidents including but not limited to:

- Losing his cool at a reporter in a wheelchair during a news conference for...dropping a recording device.
- Telling a reporter to "get on with it" rather than answer a question regarding stop and frisk.
- Getting upset with female employees for having the audacity to become pregnant while working for him to the point of saying someone should have an abortion.
- Racism. Like, all of it.

Bloomberg's bought an awful lot of good press, but that's contingent on him actually being able to deliver in person; something which he's usually found difficult and will likely find even more difficult in a primary field that is hostile to billionaires and has some extremely formidable debaters like Klobuchar and Warren.

[infinitemeridian]

Bloomberg's billions aren't gonna save him from the ass reaming that's coming his way tomorrow night. He's basically fucked any chance of any democrat of winning because regardless if he wins or loses the primary, the other 1/2 dozen candidates can't endorse or be endorsed by him without looking like giant hypocrites.

Well, I suppose one of the saving graces of a Bloomberg presidency would be that I would be that much closer to living in a Blade Runner type cyberpunk dystopia at the end of it....which would honestly be kinda cool.

Living in the post #MeToo moment, how the fuck is Bloomberg even being considered?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...oomberg-women/

[Elegiac]

So then how do you feel about the situation I described?

That it's the sort of nonsense I heard from primarily white administrators in the Department of Education who wasted countless man hours trying to square the circle of district based education funded by property taxes being a fundamentally shit system.

"We can't discipline our kids or reform the system because doing so might get us called racist" is, again, not a thing.

[infinitemeridian]

A very valid point, and something which Politico also covered.

Bloomberg's major weakness from an electoral standpoint has always been that he does not do well when he isn't in a choreographed environment - and by not doing well, I mean such colourful incidents including but not limited to:

- Losing his cool at a reporter in a wheelchair during a news conference for...dropping a recording device.
- Telling a reporter to "get on with it" rather than answer a question regarding stop and frisk.
- Getting upset with female employees for having the audacity to become pregnant while working for him to the point of saying someone should have an abortion.
- Racism. Like, all of it.

Bloomberg's bought an awful lot of good press, but that's contingent on him actually being able to deliver in person; something which he's usually found difficult and will likely find even more difficult in a primary field that is hostile to billionaires and has some extremely formidable debaters like Klobuchar and Warren.

Lol, imagine thinking that Klobuchar and Warren are "extremely formidable."

[Elegiac]

Lol, imagine thinking that Klobuchar and Warren are "extremely formidable."

In a debate or questioning environment?

Yes. They are. That's not something in dispute by anyone who's watched any footage of them in Senate session.

[infinitemeridian]

In a debate or questioning environment?

Yes. They are. That's not something in dispute by anyone who's watched any footage of them in Senate session.

We're talking about the dem debates, not senate debates. Given Warren and Klobuchar's past performances there, I see no reason to think they are going to do any better tomorrow. That being said, I am looking forward to Bloomberg getting his back walls blown TF out, so if they can bring up his lovely track record with women, I will be less inclined to send them to the re-education camps when Sanders wins.

[Elegiac]

We're talking about the dem debates, not senate debates. Given Warren and Klobuchar's past performances there

Typically quite good?

Again, I'm not sure what you're getting at besides trying to make yourself appear as partisan as possible.

I will be less inclined to send them to the re-education camps when Sanders wins.

Remind me how y'all aren't radical extremists?

[infinitemeridian]

Typically quite good?

Again, I'm not sure what you're getting at besides trying to make yourself appear as partisan as possible.



Remind me how y'all aren't radical extremists?

It's a joke, chillay-lay my dude. If they're so good, why aren't they winning? Wrong answers only!

[Elegiac]

It's a joke, chillay-lay my dude. If they're so good, why aren't they winning? Wrong answers only!

Because being good at debates and questioning is not the only factor in campaign success? Duh?

[Elegiac]

Interesting that you would say that. Our principal, who is a minority, and told us at convocation that it didn't matter what our graduation rate was as long as the gap between minority and white graduation rates shrunk (and then worked to institute a policy at the high school level where the lowest grade on any assignment was a 50) might disagree with you.

And then everyone clapped? Lol. What I think more likely happened is that they put a lot of emphasis on that graduation rate disparity and you interpreted it as "the total graduation rate doesn't matter". I.e. confirmation bias, which is further supported by the fact you felt the need to bring up said principal's demographic.

Again, still not evidence of this supposed "addressing demographic animus results in a lower quality of life for people" garbage y'all keep insisting is the case when you criticise other candidates for "identity politics".

[Fugus]

Agree on all points.
Although I'm sure she'll pick up steam by the time of SC.

Really hoping she doesn't poach votes and become Sanders spoiler vote. If she pulls that, she will have lost every ounce of respect I have for her.

She needs to quit trying to "Play politics" and just do what is best. She fucks up every time she tries to play those games because she ends up listening to people who effectively either want her or her policies to fail and direct her accordingly.

And even if she managed to win like that, everything she stood for to the voters die in the process.

[Elegiac]

And even if she managed to win like that, everything she stood for to the voters die in the process.

Cool, if Sanders wins I will spend the next four years reminding you that he only did so by prostituting himself to the DNC rather than running solely on his own power.

Turnabout is fair play, right? Especially for garbage purity tests like this.

[Fugus]

Cool, if Sanders wins I will spend the next four years reminding you that he only did so by prostituting himself to the DNC rather than running solely on his own power.

Turnabout is fair play, right? Especially for garbage purity tests like this.

Well, you can spend the next 4 years spouting those lies. And you will spend the next 4 years being wrong. And who said anything about purity tests? I said about her screwing Sanders out whom is most like her because our fucked up voting methods doesn't involve ranked choice, making her a spoiler and she knows it.

And where is the purity test? I said her turning her back on the policies and stances she is known for. "Not being a lying hypocrite" is not the same thing as a purity test. It is a test of how genuine you are at best.