Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[starlord]

kinda sucks when the spoiler vote affects your guy huh?

[Elegiac]

Well, you can spend the next 4 years spouting those lies. And you will spend the next 4 years being wrong. And who said anything about purity tests? I said about her screwing Sanders out whom is most like her because our fucked up voting methods doesn't involve ranked choice, making her a spoiler and she knows it.

Let me turn this around.

Why didn't Bernie drop out when Warren was in the lead, and where's the criticism of him for staying in if progressive unity is so important to you.

No cheating, now. You're not allowed to refer to Bernie's current polling, that's hindsight bias.

And where is the purity test? I said her turning her back on the policies and stances she is known for. "Not being a lying hypocrite" is not the same thing as a purity test. It is a test of how genuine you are at best.

So...a purity test for being genuine. Lol.

Don't you worry. I will show Bernie Sanders as much respect and support as he showed Clinton after she won the 2016 primary, and towards the party in general.

[Fugus]

Let me turn this around.

Why didn't Bernie drop out when Warren was in the lead, and where's the criticism of him for staying in if progressive unity is so important to you.

No cheating, now. You're not allowed to refer to Bernie's current polling, that's hindsight bias.



So...a purity test for being genuine. Lol.

Don't you worry. I will show Bernie Sanders as much respect and support as he showed Clinton after she won the 2016 primary, and towards the party in general.

You must have read something other than I wrote. I said that I hope she doesn't become a spoiler vote and hold on till the point she poaches enough for both of them to lose.

And I said back then that either Sanders or Warren (I didn't care which) needed to drop out and back the other because they are poaching votes.

Why do I need to defer to either current or previous polling when my views back then match my views now.

And you are the one who basically called being Genuine and not a hypocrite as a "Purity Test" not me.

[starlord]

You must have read something other than I wrote. I said that I hope she doesn't become a spoiler vote and hold on till the point she poaches enough for both of them to lose.

And I said back then that either Sanders or Warren (I didn't care which) needed to drop out and back the other because they are poaching votes.

Why do I need to defer to either current or previous polling when my views back then match my views now.

And you are the one who basically called being Genuine and not a hypocrite as a "Purity Test" not me.

thats pretty funny coming from the guy who complains that people shame him for a spoiler vote.

[Fugus]

thats pretty funny coming from the guy who complains that people shame him for a spoiler vote.

Well, you got me on that one spanky.

I wrote in a name in the general because I couldn't hold my nose for Clinton. Not exactly the same as torpedoing the one most like you in a field of 8 or so. But close enough I guess.

Now, you can blame Clinton for running me off and deciding she didn't want my vote. But when it comes to this, I hold in a different regard. If you hate me for it, so be it.

I will still vote for who wins so long as they don't pull the same shit Clinton did in that last one that too many pretend didn't happen.


Edit: AFK, now about to spend a few hours taking someone to the Urgent Care........

[starlord]

Well, you got me on that one spanky.

I wrote in a name in the general because I couldn't hold my nose for Clinton. Not exactly the same as torpedoing the one most like you in a field of 8 or so. But close enough I guess.

Now, you can blame Clinton for running me off and deciding she didn't want my vote. But when it comes to this, I hold in a different regard. If you hate me for it, so be it.

I will still vote for who wins so long as they don't pull the same shit Clinton did in that last one that too many pretend didn't happen.


Edit: AFK, now about to spend a few hours taking someone to the Urgent Care........

clinton didn't hold a gun to your head and make you vote lol. you shouldn't demand of others what you won't do yourself.

[beanman12345]

I did that too! But of course I did that knowing that I live in a hard blue state so not like it matters... I showed up and voted, but purposely left the president blank.

Voting down ticket is more important than voting president imo anyways, So you won't get any shame from me thrown your way.

[Elegiac]

So, much as I dislike Pete's sliminess this earned a genuine chuckle from me.

My marriage has never involved me sending hush money to a porn star. I’m ready to have a debate with Donald Trump on family values.

[Gestopft]

My approach does not suffer from magical thinking because all it requires is a handful of thousands of people in three states to decide Trump lied to them and they won't vote for him again. Not that he is bad or their ideas are wrong, or that the Democrat is good. That Trump took them as fools. That is so easy compared to what you're dreaming will happen - that millions of eligible voters who don't vote turn out for the first time in thives because the Bernie Sanders slate is so fucken tasty.

So ignore potential first-time voters: in Wisconsin and Michigan, Clinton lost more of Obama's 2008 voters to the couch (or to third parties) than to Trump. Wisconsin was flipped to the Republicans despite Trump getting fewer votes than Romney. The Obama-Trump voters that got duped are a good thing to go for, but at least in two of the three states, there were more Obama-(3rd party or none). Both groups have their risks, but I'll take the larger pool that didn't get duped once already.

[Edge-]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ds/4801735002/

So...no "full medical report" for Sanders, despite his promises from last year that he'd release everything.

I hate that this is such an easy comparison, but WHERE HAVE WE HEARD A CANDIDATE PROMISE TRANSPARENCY AND THEN BACK OUT OF SAID PROMISE BEFORE?!

And before anyone freaks out, still voting for him in the general if he gets it, but this is not a good move on his part. Especially given his age (he's older than Trump) and his heart attack (minor) last year, and that he voluntarily made that promise.

[Milchshake]

Also Bernie, withholding his income information for years. Then cherry picking his tax returns.

At Least he's consistent for lack of transparency.

Makes you wonder if he was hiding some juicy gifts from the NRA or Sugar lobby

[Blur4stuff]

I have to agree on Buttigieg having some nice comebacks. He's fired off quite a few over the past few months after Trump or a Trump ally says something stupid.

I also will say Sanders not releasing more info is a negative. It's not enough to remove him from my #1 choice, but those pointing it out are absolutely right. Although, I would caution anyone who supports Bloomberg from talking about it.

[Milchshake]

Man attacked at Bernie rally in Colorado. He was Bernie curious ... and now he thinks Bernie is the same as Trump

But the man wearing the shirt — who says he agrees with Sanders on some policies, but not on gun control — said he was shocked at being physically confronted at a political rally.

“I think it’s really a sad thing at a Bernie rally, when someone has a difference of opinion, that someone would be treated like that,” he told CBS Denver.

“I thought it really would be a lot more inclusive than that. It’s not a safe place to express differences.”

[Fugus]

clinton didn't hold a gun to your head and make you vote lol. you shouldn't demand of others what you won't do yourself.

Seriously, you aren't comparing the same things.

You are comparing a voter withholding their vote for a specific candidate to a candidate who has no real path to winning staying in splitting the vote with a candidate who actually has a path to winning sharing their policies and ensuring that neither of them win and those policies with them. Those are apples and oranges there.

And Clinton acted like she had put a gun to my head to make me vote for her. I did otherwise. I still voted down ballot Democrat with the people running for everything else.

And where did I ask anyone to do something I didn't do. If people don't want to vote for Sanders for any reason, I give them my full blessing, same with Warren. But I don't give any candidate to knowingly kneecap voters splitting votes if they don't have a path.

And also, notice I didn't say we hit that point yet, I said I hope Warren doesn't do that.
@Scrod

I live in North Carolina, I voted down ballot Democrat for every position but Clinton, I wrote in a name there. And Clinton has no one to blame but herself. The final straw for me was when she took Debbie into her campaign the same day she was forced to step down after all that had happened, that was just too much of a slap in the face and I couldn't hold my nose THAT hard.

[Milchshake]

*One Reason*
Guys, remember 2016, when there was an open SCOTUS seat? None of those down ballot votes get to nominate a supreme.

But Debbie farted in an elevator one time... so we all suffer!

[beanman12345]

Seriously, you aren't comparing the same things.

You are comparing a voter withholding their vote for a specific candidate to a candidate who has no real path to winning staying in splitting the vote with a candidate who actually has a path to winning sharing their policies and ensuring that neither of them win and those policies with them. Those are apples and oranges there.

And Clinton acted like she had put a gun to my head to make me vote for her. I did otherwise. I still voted down ballot Democrat with the people running for everything else.

And where did I ask anyone to do something I didn't do. If people don't want to vote for Sanders for any reason, I give them my full blessing, same with Warren. But I don't give any candidate to knowingly kneecap voters splitting votes if they don't have a path.

And also, notice I didn't say we hit that point yet, I said I hope Warren doesn't do that.
@Scrod

I live in North Carolina, I voted down ballot Democrat for every position but Clinton, I wrote in a name there. And Clinton has no one to blame but herself. The final straw for me was when she took Debbie into her campaign the same day she was forced to step down after all that had happened, that was just too much of a slap in the face and I couldn't hold my nose THAT hard.

Warren doesn't have the money to run indefinitely like Bernie does. She's already had to pull ads in SC and Nevada because she has to pay her over bloated staff. I really feel she'll be out after march 3rd election.

[Fugus]

Warren doesn't have the money to run indefinitely like Bernie does. She's already had to pull ads in SC and Nevada because she has to pay her over bloated staff. I really feel she'll be out after march 3rd election.

For me, I honestly would have rather one of them pulled before the primary started. Their best power play would have been to make it to every single debate before the primary started and then, just before, one of them bowed out and backed the other. That would have unified their base, prevented the overlap and would have that person destroying in the primary. That didn't happen.

If Warren honestly thinks she has a chance at this point, go for it, but I she shouldn't screw over both of them because of it.

And her lost support, she can blame that squarely on her when she decided to waffle on M4A and trying to say Sanders said something that is completely out of character to him in public instead of handling it in private which made her look even more like she is trying to get dirty to win and listen to others who disliked her policies to begin with. She lost a decent amount of her base when she basically showed her policies that people actually want weren't really a huge deal to be thrown away and she was willing to go dirty to win.

While I do think the Democrats need to go hard on the Republicans, lying or crap like that isn't how you do it otherwise you actually give them fuel to actually make their fucked in the head claims have credibility to be used against you and you would earn it.

[Elegiac]

While I do think the Democrats need to go hard on the Republicans, lying or crap like that isn't how you do it otherwise you actually give them fuel to actually make their fucked in the head claims have credibility to be used against you and you would earn it.

That sure is a twisted narrative there, Cotton, let's see how that works out for him.

Honestly, your post is indeed illustrative of Warren's decline but not remotely for any reason you said - it's because of a propensity in the current media environment to twist and sensationalise. "The DNC favors its own party members" becomes "the DNC rigs elections", Warren and Bernie having a disagreement over a media reaction to a leaked conversation turns into "Warren is smearing Bernie", and being subjected to far more scrutiny on Medicare for All than Bernie has ever been and having to present a distinct plan for achieving it that ends up differing from Bernie's becomes "waffling on Medicare for All".

Like, you keep repeating "I have nothing but respect for Warren" - but it's a a hollow claim given everything in these posts indicates the exact opposite.

[beanman12345]

For me, I honestly would have rather one of them pulled before the primary started. Their best power play would have been to make it to every single debate before the primary started and then, just before, one of them bowed out and backed the other. That would have unified their base, prevented the overlap and would have that person destroying in the primary. That didn't happen.

If Warren honestly thinks she has a chance at this point, go for it, but I she shouldn't screw over both of them because of it.

And her lost support, she can blame that squarely on her when she decided to waffle on M4A and trying to say Sanders said something that is completely out of character to him in public instead of handling it in private which made her look even more like she is trying to get dirty to win and listen to others who disliked her policies to begin with. She lost a decent amount of her base when she basically showed her policies that people actually want weren't really a huge deal to be thrown away and she was willing to go dirty to win.

While I do think the Democrats need to go hard on the Republicans, lying or crap like that isn't how you do it otherwise you actually give them fuel to actually make their fucked in the head claims have credibility to be used against you and you would earn it.

Ideally that would have been best, but putting myself in their shoes, I would till the day I died always thought "what if" and that's a painful game to have in your head, so I don't blame either for staying in for the first few states. I just don't think she'll be in long enough to be a spoiler, or if Bernie was in her shoes he'd be in long enough to be a spoiler, they are good friends and want very similar things for the country. The moderates however don't have those ideals, they will be spoilers for each other till the end, and Bernie is gonna get that 1900 whatever delegates going into the convention. That's just my opinion, we'll see how it pans out.

edit - btw how is person in urgent care doing?

[Fugus]

Ideally that would have been best, but putting myself in their shoes, I would till the day I died always thought "what if" and that's a painful game to have in your head, so I don't blame either for staying in for the first few states. I just don't think she'll be in long enough to be a spoiler, or if Bernie was in her shoes he'd be in long enough to be a spoiler, they are good friends and want very similar things for the country. The moderates however don't have those ideals, they will be spoilers for each other till the end, and Bernie is gonna get that 1900 whatever delegates going into the convention. That's just my opinion, we'll see how it pans out.

edit - btw how is person in urgent care doing?

Oh yeah, I personally don't fault either one of them staying in now, just if it goes in.

Actually got out of the Urgent Care a little while ago. Was planning on taking my 15 year old nephew to the doctors tomorrow because he wasn't feeling that great. Then I got a call from his mother asking if I could take him because he started throwing up all of a sudden and a decent amount.

Couldn't take him to the Urgent Care because all of them are closed so had to take him to the Kids section of the ER. But it was empty so we got back quick.

Flu was negative, Strep was negative but they did say he has some infection of some kind because of how his throat looks so they took a culture and no school for the next few days. So back home and he has no school tomorrow so I will probably be spending the day with him.

My nephews and my step-sister are also neighbors so ends up happening a decent amount.