Is Classic too easy?

[Uoyredrum]

Alright, I get it, but I prefer retails leveling, as someone who have been leveling characters since 2005, i'm quite tired of it and just wants to reach the end game as fast as possible.

Well that's why I personally always like heirlooms, but I think the problem was more that the leveling experience never kept pace with all of the new abilities & mechanics they added. Plus the heirloom gear was overtuned, but having that stuff with bonus exp was a good idea in general. I do think leveling in classic takes way too long but I prefer it to how linear retail is.

[Perkunas]

Well that's why I personally always like heirlooms, but I think the problem was more that the leveling experience never kept pace with all of the new abilities & mechanics they added. Plus the heirloom gear was overtuned, but having that stuff with bonus exp was a good idea in general. I do think leveling in classic takes way too long but I prefer it to how linear retail is.

The thing is MMO's weren't always just all about the capped content. Most people never even got to cap during Vanilla. Hell, I had a buddy who played Earth and Beyond with me every single day for a year hours on end and didn't cap before the game shut down. The focus shift from the journey to the destination is probably the most sad part about the genre since WoW launched.

[Heathy]

eh the levelling content just isn't engaging enough, once you know how to play your class, you don't want walk in the park levels of content, you want something that challenges what you know.

to me the levelling aspect of classic wow was always just a tutorial that by level 60, you knew all your abilities everything you could do. which is also why most levelling past classic felt, boring, because you were barely learning anything new that you didn't already know. levelling in tbc for example, what exactly did it achieve, you weren't getting to 70 with the same level of revelation as you had when hitting 60. there were class revamps but the game didn't change to such a degree that you needed to relearn the entire thing from scratch. one of the reasons why having expansions with 20-40-50-60 levels is pointless because there is nothing to learn.

the 10 levels from 60 to 70 was enough to give you time to practice with the new abilities and talents that were added. I think most classes only gained a few abilities. you just didn't need another 60 levels to learn how to use them.

levelling has its place but I wouldn't say it was the core of the game unless you have learning difficulties. it isn't what you spend most of the time doing unless you barely play the game. or the only thing you do is level one class to max, then start a new one. even that has its end point, where you run out of classes to level and you're just doing dupes.

[d00mh4cker]

I'm not sure if it's good game design that you go work irl for couple hours and just buy max level boost, but I guess that makes them good money. Some of the boosts are free though with expansions but I have definitely paid 60 euros for a few.

I've never payed for boost.

[Echocho]

The leveling is shit in both versions of the game, the only thing that makes retail come out ahead is the fact that it's over much faster. Getting from 1 to 60 in Classic has to be considered torture in some countries.

[dzd]

The leveling is shit in both versions of the game, the only thing that makes retail come out ahead is the fact that it's over much faster. Getting from 1 to 60 in Classic has to be considered torture in some countries.

I don't understand why you love your shitty opinions so much. I don't wanna say if I agree with you or not because it's not relevant at all. You are just spamming this thread with stupid off-topic.

[TheLucky1]

Difficulty does not equate to more fun(but also not less).

So the real question is: is classic more fun?
And the answer is: you have to find out for yourself.

On a more serious note i actually think that a certain youtuber has a good take on min-maxing in classic and if that is fun or even waterproof for this game.

[Ielenia]

By definition, difficulty means needing a great deal of effort or skill to accomplish. Note how it says effort OR skill.

It doesn't matter if a time limit doesn't exist. If something takes a long time to get, be it through intense grinding or whatever, that can still technically constitute being 'difficult to obtain'. For some people, investing a lot of time without losing interest IS a difficult thing for them.

Which I have mentioned before:

Since I don't consider "time investment" to be any sort of measure for difficulty (because you don't have a limited amount of time to reach max level) I find classic WoW's leveling to not be difficult at all. The only "difficulty" I find is fighting the boredom that comes with the leveling.

You can reply arguing all you want, but as long as the oxford English dictionary defines difficulty as viably being something that requires a great deal of effort (and a lot of grinding is arguably a lot of effort (effort in this case defined as something done by hard work)) then nothing I am saying right now is incorrect.

But how hard is said activity, when you interspace it with... well, by pacing yourself? I mean, having to organize and stack a thousand bricks sure takes "a lot of effort", but if you don't have a time limit to complete said task, and just stack ten or so a day, sure, it'd take a long time to complete, but it wouldn't be hard?

Using one of your examples below: sure, it'd be very hard if I were to hold my breath for ten minutes, but if I don't have a time limit to complete that task, and I can break those ten minutes in smaller chunks (an allusion how you don't have to go from level 1 to 60 in one sitting) then it's not hard at all, since I can hold my breath for fifteen seconds now.. then breathe normally for a while and then hold for 20 seconds more, later... etc.

Time absolutely can be a measurement of difficulty, but it's based on context. Another example could be how long one can hold their breath underwater, or a weight, or maintain focus on a task. With many challenges in life, time is one sure fire way of increasing the difficulty level. Think of those electric wire buzzer toys you played with as a kid where you had to guide the hoop along the rail without touching the sides. The longer the run, the harder it objectively becomes to get from A to B without it beeping. Or even with regards to physical age -- with time, you grow older, and once-simple tasks become more difficult. There are numerous examples. Time limits for challenges or puzzles. Races. You name it, the list goes on.

Examples like that don't really work because, as I pointed out in a previous post of mine (which I quoted above), classic WoW's leveling does not have a time limit, nor it is a race.

[Kxd]

You play classic to enjoy the MMORPG feeling from it.

[Echocho]

You play classic to enjoy the MMORPG feeling from it.

I don't think you or anyone else can assume why people love and play Classic. World of Warcraft has always been light on the RPG side of things and MMO you can literally get from most games these days. If MMORPG was literally the only thing people were after they'd be better suited playing The Elder Scrolls Online since it feels a lot more massive and has a shit ton of RPG elements.

[clevin]

The amount of mechanics is irrelevant, it's whether you can beat the encounter or not that determine its difficulty.

I can beat all Classic encounters while paying minimal attention to the game. The game is easy.
I can't kill most mythic retail encounters because they're too difficult. The game is hard.

Oh come on. No one. NO ONE is saying Classic raids are as hard as mythic.

And all of you... just fucking go play retail. If that's what you enjoy GO DO IT. Shitposting here about how classic is easier just makes you look like petty little jerks. Those of us who like classic... LIKE CLASSIC. We don't care if it's harder, easier or whatever. It's DIFFERENT. If you feel otherwise, cool. Go do what you enjoy. You're 24 pages into whining about how classic might be easier as if anyone really fucking cares.

[arkanon]

Oh come on. No one. NO ONE is saying Classic raids are as hard as mythic.

And all of you... just fucking go play retail. If that's what you enjoy GO DO IT. Shitposting here about how classic is easier just makes you look like petty little jerks. Those of us who like classic... LIKE CLASSIC. We don't care if it's harder, easier or whatever. It's DIFFERENT. If you feel otherwise, cool. Go do what you enjoy. You're 24 pages into whining about how classic might be easier as if anyone really fucking cares.

Based on the fact its 25 pages in, i would suggest people care. Someone, either in this thread or another similar one, is literally arguing that classic raids are as hard as mythic raids. You speak for yourself, and i happen to agree with what you are saying, but other clearly disagree.

[dzd]

Based on the fact its 25 pages in, i would suggest people care. Someone, either in this thread or another similar one, is literally arguing that classic raids are as hard as mythic raids. You speak for yourself, and i happen to agree with what you are saying, but other clearly disagree.

If you haven't realized it yet this thread is just 99% trolling. No one actually gives a shit. It's just the mmo-c moderation is so bad that there is no point having real discussion.

[Echocho]

Oh come on. No one. NO ONE is saying Classic raids are as hard as mythic.

And all of you... just fucking go play retail. If that's what you enjoy GO DO IT. Shitposting here about how classic is easier just makes you look like petty little jerks. Those of us who like classic... LIKE CLASSIC. We don't care if it's harder, easier or whatever. It's DIFFERENT. If you feel otherwise, cool. Go do what you enjoy. You're 24 pages into whining about how classic might be easier as if anyone really fucking cares.

It's not that easy. Classic was sold to me by the community as a hardcore experience and the most difficult the game has ever been. I've invested 6 months of my life into this game and I'm not about to throw that away, but I am going to complain about it.

I thought that maybe MC was the outlier and was again reassured by the community that it would ramp up to the max when BWL came out but it's basically the same 1-2 mechanics and you're standing in the same spot spamming the same 1-2 buttons over and over.

"The hardest content" the game has ever had shouldn't be clearable by a casual guild such as mine on our first raiding night. Hell even Karazhan was harder.

[Lolites]

Oh come on. No one. NO ONE is saying Classic raids are as hard as mythic.

And all of you... just fucking go play retail. If that's what you enjoy GO DO IT. Shitposting here about how classic is easier just makes you look like petty little jerks. Those of us who like classic... LIKE CLASSIC. We don't care if it's harder, easier or whatever. It's DIFFERENT. If you feel otherwise, cool. Go do what you enjoy. You're 24 pages into whining about how classic might be easier as if anyone really fucking cares.

actualy in other thread (that is now thank god closed) there were people claiming classic raids to be as difficult as mythic raids on retail...
they were also claiming that you cant add amounts of people raiding on all difficulties bcs most people raid on all of them... that one make me laugh as i imagined one of those people who die in LFR by standing in fire trying to raid mythic

as for playing what you enjoy instead of shittposting on other game... yeah thats purely what retail players do... thats why there are at least 3 threads a week that say how classic is better and retail dead...

[Coocoox]

Comparing Classic to LFG based on the performance of the best guilds in the world is obviously completely disingenous. Having a plethora of mechanics means nothing if the consequence for ignoring them is zero. If blizzard released a LFR button for BWL and just dropped 40 random players into it i can guarantee you it would be a shitfest far from guaranteed to clear it at all. Naxx would 100% be unclearable for a LFR group, outside of spider and abo wing.

As for private server players hyping up the difficulty of vanilla raids it's honestly been the complete opposite. We've already seen these raids get crushed on servers where damage values and the timers on boss abilities where significantly buffed. We where the ones asking for buffed raids and patch specific gear and talents. Meanwhile retail players or players who haven't played at all since vanilla couldn't take the rose tinted glasses of and just dismissed it as priv servers being undertuned and real vanilla being insanely hard.

Here's Kungen a couple years ago talking about how insanely difficult Naxx was compared to retail which is obviously delusional: youtube. com/watch?v=T9iRC5DyFvA

I think people will be surprised how easy most of Naxx is for a prepared guild, we will see a world first less than two hours after launch, and if the game is still popular enough for guilds to stick around we will see people get a below one hour speedrun. At the same time casual guilds and pugs will struggle immensely at the later portions, 4H and KT while not much compared to retail mechanics are severely punishing of mistakes.

[Domixux]

It's not that easy. Classic was sold to me by the community as a hardcore experience and the most difficult the game has ever been. I've invested 6 months of my life into this game and I'm not about to throw that away, but I am going to complain about it.

I thought that maybe MC was the outlier and was again reassured by the community that it would ramp up to the max when BWL came out but it's basically the same 1-2 mechanics and you're standing in the same spot spamming the same 1-2 buttons over and over.

"The hardest content" the game has ever had shouldn't be clearable by a casual guild such as mine on our first raiding night. Hell even Karazhan was harder.

Sorry I have bad news for you: You might be the dumbest idiot on earth. This game is 15 years old, everyone knew which mechanics bosses had in classic. How did you not know until playing classic for 6 months? I don't know which community you're speaking of, but please start using your own brain. Just go on wowhead classic and check the bosses in AQ40 and Naxx. Small hint: They will still have just 1-2 mechanics.

So if you don't enjoy this 'easy riding' just quit now. Maybe you had fun the past 6 months, maybe not. But don't tell us in a year that raids are still easy.

[Echocho]

Sorry I have bad news for you: You might be the dumbest idiot on earth. This game is 15 years old, everyone knew which mechanics bosses had in classic. How did you not know until playing classic for 6 months? I don't know which community you're speaking of, but please start using your own brain. Just go on wowhead classic and check the bosses in AQ40 and Naxx. Small hint: They will still have just 1-2 mechanics.

So if you don't enjoy this 'easy riding' just quit now. Maybe you had fun the past 6 months, maybe not. But don't tell us in a year that raids are still easy.

I didn't play the game prior to WotLK. How the hell was I supposed to know that everyone was lying? I couldn't just go in and try it out for myself because the game didn't even exist anymore. When all you hear from the community is that Classic raids are hardcore and more difficult than anything that came after you pretty much have to take their word for it.

I got suspicious after we cleared MC our first reset and both in my guild and on the official forums people assured me that MC was the outlier and that BWL would be insane. Turns out that BWL is also LFR levels of easy, I now have no reason to believe anything the community says about the rest of classic being harder.

[potis]

I didn't play the game prior to WotLK. How the hell was I supposed to know that everyone was lying?

They werent "lying" per se.

People are dogshit at the game, in any form of it, they were dogshit in 2005, they are dogshit in 2020, so their opinion is skewed by their own dogshit experiences in order to defend themselves of how dogshit they are at pixels.

Its the same people that post about doing a Mythic dungeon finally, with gear from WQs and Titanforge, 10 ilvls higher than the dungeon itself when the expansion releases, the same dungeons any decent player cleaves down with -30ilvls and green quest items.

The only difference after WOTLK, is they introduced catch up mechanics, so people get to be dogshit in relevant item levels, instead of running around in ZG/Karazhan gear, when the game is in Naxx/Sunwell times, clearing the same HC dungeon for the 50th time.

[Heathy]

I didn't play the game prior to WotLK. How the hell was I supposed to know that everyone was lying? I couldn't just go in and try it out for myself because the game didn't even exist anymore. When all you hear from the community is that Classic raids are hardcore and more difficult than anything that came after you pretty much have to take their word for it.

I got suspicious after we cleared MC our first reset and both in my guild and on the official forums people assured me that MC was the outlier and that BWL would be insane. Turns out that BWL is also LFR levels of easy, I now have no reason to believe anything the community says about the rest of classic being harder.

its lfr levels of easy when you have a co-ordinated guild group on voice comms. thats the difference, you can do the LFR without voice comms, you will struggle to do bwl aq40 and naxx with no voice comms, actually i will go as far as saying that without voice comms you likely won't do naxx. because it is heavily reliant on communication.

the difficult part of classic was always trying to get 40 ppl to show up on the same day. that was the hard part, logistics. most guilds even back then if they could consistently get 40 ppl to show up week after week, would have made consistent progress. the content isn't designed to be impossible or tuned to the nth degree. these are the first raids the game had. I personally thought vashj and kael'thas were harder than most of the boss fights i've done, just because of either the length of the fight, or the amount of phases and over lapping mechanics where several ppl have a specific job that they cannot fail at. and if they do fail its a wipe.

i'm eager to see us reach naxx and see how hard it really was I do think it will be quite challenging compared to the wrath version, the overall less max buffer HP, the lack of smart healing and aoe healing in general. mistakes will likely be very noticeable. I have no idea how hard aq40 will be, my guess is that its going to be the last two bosses that end up being a bit wipey, twin emps and c'thun I can imagine we will wipe there, thats likely where the wipe fests will happen. everything upto there perhaps not so bad.


you have to remember that most ppl, didn't actually raid back in the day, I was on silvermoon eu, we had inner-sanctum one world first guild, several other very good guilds that made it to naxx. but there was probably less than 15 guilds that actually made it to bwl. I remember the day we did raggy in under 3 minutes and my guild was perhaps the 10th guild on the server to do that, i can remember ppl talking about it in general chat 'yay raggy dead before submerge!'. raiding was niche. at the time. i don't even think i knew raids existed for the first 5-6 months. played the game for about half a year before i knew there was a place called molten core. completely different time. lets also not forget that you have vested interest in actually doing well in your guild, compared to the lfr, if you're consistently shit you won't get to raid, while in the lfr you aren't risking anything if you just afk, or stand in everything. you can get kicked from a lfr group for doing nothing, but it doesn't prevent you from joining another group. while the lfr is even balanced around several ppl being afk or standing in things, while in classic most encounters don't let you fail at mechanics and survive or be heal-able, if you stand in all the fires you'll die, or you'll make your healers oom and cause a wipe.

the damage dealt is relative to the max hp of the classes of that time. its not like there is much room to consistently fail and recover.