In What Ways could Shadowlands end up sucking?

[Volatilis]

I'm not even sure whos ~ complaining ~ .Just see it as how do we spot and address concerns before they become a problem as early as possible.

Yes addressing concerns when you title the thread "couLd enD uP sUcKinG?"

this thread is everything wrong with the gaming community and these forums. What good is it to assume the worst. Thats such a shit way to approach life in general.

[Thetruth1400]

My only real worry is the AP grind is going to still be around, which I'm 99% confident it will be seeing as there's literally another system with AP in it's name (Anima Power) and a follower tree / faction system that looks an awful lot like something conducive towards a grind

I also worry that they announced so little content that I just don't feel the expansion is going to be much at all. I think we're headed for a WoD 2.0 in terms of content, with very little to be expected. This is backed by the recent interview where Ion said they're happy with a 6 month raid patch cycle. Frankly, with how easy it is to get gear from so many sources, 4 months seems way too long, let alone 6 months.

Horrific Visions clearly seem to be the first iteration of Torghast, and I just don't see that being enough to keep people interested for long, let alone an entire expansion. They also seem to have designed the expansion around it, seeing as it's pretty much one of the only features they actually announced at Blizzcon.

[Samuraijake]

Yes addressing concerns when you title the thread "couLd enD uP sUcKinG?"

this thread is everything wrong with the gaming community and these forums. What good is it to assume the worst. Thats such a shit way to approach life in general.

"prepare for the worst"

[Ticj]

I'm not even sure whos ~ complaining ~ .Just see it as how do we spot and address concerns before they become a problem as early as possible.

I was joking, it's fine to complain about the features shown at blizzcon

[Volatilis]

"prepare for the worst"

When planning out for your budget for the year sure.

But your entertainment/gaming/films etc? Assume the worst? No thanks.

[Grazrug]

How about we just wait and see how it would actually turn out okay?

[Flower Milk]

Imagine not even waiting for beta before you start complaining.

This is getting ridiculous.

I seriously do not understand people who say stuff like this. Why do you think Blizzard even releases any information on Shadowlands to begin with if not because they want feedback from us? If they wanted people to wait to give feedback when the beta is up, we wouldn't know any of the information on Shadowlands that we do so far, they could just keep that info from us.

It's like Blizzard literally hands people information on Shadowlands on a silver platter and goes "so hey guys, what do you think about this?" and people like this guy go "WAIT GUYS THE BETA ISN'T OUT YET DON'T GIVE THEM FEEDBACK YET WE HAVEN'T PLAYED IT YET!!!!1". It's freaking weird and frankly, I am sick of it.

[Dejavuproned]

- Low quality again

Dear God this is driving me nuts. You people do not know what quality means.

BFA is MANY things, but poor "quality" is not one of them. It has alot of problems but the "quality" of what was put out is not one of them.

The raids are top notch, the systems although perhaps not particularly well thought out are still high quality in presentation.

It had plenty of content, even if it's not all liked. The animations, cinematic and overall presentation of the expansion has the quality we expect from blizzard.

I've tried a number of other attempts at mmos over the years and only a few come close to the overall "quality" of work blizzard puts into wow. Most other mmos suffer from severe quality issues (for me anyways) like super janky or stiff animations, poorly worded text/dialogs, and other such issues that would indicate the quality of work that the developer put into it.

The only one I've played that comes close is modern gw2.

The issue with BFA in particular is poor DIRECTION of the expansion and many of its layered on systems. It was simply poorly thought out and alot of work went into systems that players hated and by the time blizzard realized this they were in too deep to change course.

Edit - on topic

Too much rng systems and overall layered on systems.

Limiting how many times you can run torgast

Not improving classes sufficiently

Trying to force some cringey redemption arc for Sylvanas to appease the fanbois/girls.

None of these would necessarily ruin the game but would hurt the overall experience

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

[Niwes]

Dear God this is driving me nuts. You people do not know what quality means.

BFA is MANY things, but poor "quality" is not one of them. It has alot of problems but the "quality" of what was put out is not one of them.

The raids are top notch, the systems although perhaps not particularly well thought out are still high quality in presentation.

It had plenty of content, even if it's not all liked. The animations, cinematic and overall presentation of the expansion has the quality we expect from blizzard.

I've tried a number of other attempts at mmos over the years and only a few come close to the overall "quality" of work blizzard puts into wow. Most other mmos suffer from severe quality issues (for me anyways) like super janky or stiff animations, poorly worded text/dialogs, and other such issues that would indicate the quality of work that the developer put into it.

The only one I've played that comes close is modern gw2.

The issue with BFA in particular is poor DIRECTION of the expansion and many of its layered on systems. It was simply poorly thought out and alot of work went into systems that players hated and by the time blizzard realized this they were in too deep to change course.

Edit - on topic

Too much rng systems and overall layered on systems.

Limiting how many times you can run torgast

Not improving classes sufficiently

Trying to force some cringey redemption arc for Sylvanas to appease the fanbois/girls.

None of these would necessarily ruin the game but would hurt the overall experience

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk

first:
a lot of your post is your opinion. you go like „raids where top notch“ and act like its a objective fixed fact. spoiler: its not.

second:
i also agree to a lot of your points. quality of some lore (but only jaina and talanji, NOT sylvanas shit), world, immersion, gfx and cinematics was good.

third:
quality of class design was not good. world quests is cheap recycling copy shit. a trizillion quests instead more real content is a horrible cheap way to fake content, allied races was a pure cash grab system, azerite was cheap grind, systems were not well thought. in short: in all that points no investment was put into. instead they tried to recycle and cheapshit as much as possible. its the cost effective development route: put in the least possible amount of effort and try to get most money out of it. thats the opposite of investment and quality.

[Philomene]

If SL isn’t the start of a new “WoW era”. If it’s only the continuity of WoD / Legion / BfA it will be a subpar expansion. I’m pretty sure they can definitely do it right, but will they ? Definitely not sure about that so I’m not expecting anything not to be disappointed when it comes out.

[Donatello Trumpi]

Still a little early on beta/ptr stuff. But can you think of anything that could happen, be changed, removed, or added, that would cause the expansion to become a famous meme as BFA did?

This is my attempt at some examples
-AP grind is Actually back.
-Bottle neck quests get rea-dded at the start of the expac
-no flying at all through the whole thing
-Shamans not being "completed" until patch 9.1.5
-Rng + RnG for items you'll need to complete your legendary - resulting in you not completing your legendary or being "raid ready".. so you have to make a 2nd toon that passes the RNG check >> gets his legendary >> and is brought into raids instead.
-Sylvannas still alive by patch 10.0
-SJW stuff shoved in your face at the cost of good story telling.
~GCDs added to more abilities than ever

What ~could~ go wrong in shadowlands?

Easy:


- Classes ending up being even a more watered down version of BFA (which already was a watered down version of legion)
- Them introducing more mind numbing essence/borrowed expansion system grinds without any alt friendliness whatsoever.
- Generally being alt unfriendly if you have a life. Alt friendliness was perfect the first 2 raid tiers. It went to MAJOR SHIT with the Aszhara patch.

- Same amount or more passive procs in shadowlands that you have no control over.
- Them deliberately not fixing stuff in shadowlands only to cosplay as "we listen to the community feedback. Buy our next expansion after shadowlands to see the fixes this time for sure !"

- Them outsourcing a significant portion to chinese developers like in reforged
- Their " GREAT UNPRUNING" turning out to be nothing more than give each class 2-3 mediocre skills from the past and call it a day. Ofcourse some "darling" classes will get cool iconic shit, while the majority gets mediocre stufff and a few stepchildren (most likely shamans, paladins, druids) will get shafted majorly.
- Leaving dying realmpools to rot instead of finally getting rid of the server wide mythic lock. We need realm wide guilds and mythic endgame raiding from the start now more than ever.

[FelPlague]

Came here to say that..well the "huge" part that is now still on MMO-C anyhow...as of now there are 240 members online that can post.

I guess the points of complaints will be:

No tier gear, gear no matter how they handle it, class imbalance, boring quests, bad writing, lore violations, shop mounts, pvp imbalance, gear acquisition, no content, ruined characters, mythic+ killing the game, raid difficulties, p2w, Ion, Activision.....basically anything that has been ridiculed over the last 10 years since I joined the forum.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lot-of-images)
oh boi oh boi how right you are, i recently decided to do another look through and it was just as funny, but here is a thread with a list of a ton of silly threads from back in vanilla.

[Greyvax]

I hope everyone is enjoying Horrific Visions, because that's literally the alpha testing for Torghast.

[MiiiMiii]

#1 They want to bring back concepts like Totems but the gameplay has changed so much that it does not make sense anymore. How can Shaman really justify spending 4 GCDs to add totems with this fast paced gameplay?

#2 If Horrific Visions is any indication of Torgast... It's gonna be a system designed for melee DPS. Your class cast a lot of spells immobaly? Too bad. You play a Healer? Too bad. You play a tank? Too bad. GOGO respec to a fast paced Melee! How about DH? Or WW Monk? Or Fury?...

#3 Them, yet again, failing to bring any motivation to bother doing hard content. You can do everything in LFR and the only "carrot on a stick" for bothering doing harder difficulties is ilvl and some Mount? No thanks.

#4 No rewarding PvP system with predictable upgrades.

#5 Still focus on M+ and let Raiding be a dead. I hate M+ with a passion. GOGOGO am I right? What's ur RIO? LOL!

#6 Still focus the game arround collectables and not gear. It's the worst worry, and looking at the "wings" you can unlock and stuff... The main driver for the expansion, yet again, seems to be "cool transmogs"... I wish they just removed Transmog so they could work on actual MMORPG motivations.

[Gurahk]

#1 They want to bring back concepts like Totems but the gameplay has changed so much that it does not make sense anymore. How can Shaman really justify spending 4 GCDs to add totems with this fast paced gameplay?

#2 If Horrific Visions is any indication of Torgast... It's gonna be a system designed for melee DPS. Your class cast a lot of spells immobaly? Too bad. You play a Healer? Too bad. You play a tank? Too bad. GOGO respec to a fast paced Melee! How about DH? Or WW Monk? Or Fury?...

#3 Them, yet again, failing to bring any motivation to bother doing hard content. You can do everything in LFR and the only "carrot on a stick" for bothering doing harder difficulties is ilvl and some Mount? No thanks.

#4 No rewarding PvP system with predictable upgrades.

#5 Still focus on M+ and let Raiding be a dead. I hate M+ with a passion. GOGOGO am I right? What's ur RIO? LOL!

#6 Still focus the game arround collectables and not gear. It's the worst worry, and looking at the "wings" you can unlock and stuff... The main driver for the expansion, yet again, seems to be "cool transmogs"... I wish they just removed Transmog so they could work on actual MMORPG motivations.

For the second point, Torghast won't be time-based so you can take your sweet time.

[Dejavuproned]

first:
a lot of your post is your opinion. you go like „raids where top notch“ and act like its a objective fixed fact. spoiler: its not.

second:
i also agree to a lot of your points. quality of some lore (but only jaina and talanji, NOT sylvanas shit), world, immersion, gfx and cinematics was good.

third:
quality of class design was not good. world quests is cheap recycling copy shit. a trizillion quests instead more real content is a horrible cheap way to fake content, allied races was a pure cash grab system, azerite was cheap grind, systems were not well thought. in short: in all that points no investment was put into. instead they tried to recycle and cheapshit as much as possible. its the cost effective development route: put in the least possible amount of effort and try to get most money out of it. thats the opposite of investment and quality.

I'll grant you that I may have come off strong (apologies). Still the word bothers me when used for wow Becuase I just don't think calling it "low quality" holds up at almost any point in its lifetime.

This is because most of what you say (like class design) were, unfortunately, intentional choices by the dev team (or rather the leadership) .

The way I look at it, the quality of work put into each individual part of bfa and it for the most part holds up (definitely some parts that don't). But the whole didn't ammount to anything great, many would say it came out bad, due to the design and direction and the way the parts interacted.

Think of it like a shoe, that was weirdly designed like it was meant for an ape or something and is frankly ugly as hell. But this shoe used the best quality materials and shoe making techniques available when it was produced. It's not very comfortable, but it's functional and it's lasted you over 10 years of heavy use.

That's bfa in a nut shell, good materials but following a bad blueprint. I can personally appreciate the work that went into the expansion, especially early on, but it was hugely misguided. I feel the same way about Cata which is my least favorite expansion still.

I guess the reason it bothers me is because by using that kind of terminology, you are essentially targeting the wrong people. The game Devs at the bottom (world designers, quest designers, artists, encounter designers, ect) clearly put their work in, and it's solid. The problem is the people above them. That's where things went wrong.

Hope that clears up my thoughts on that.

I still have high hopes for shadowlands. This is the same devs that brought us legion just 1 expansion earlier. They still have it in them.

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[Kumorii]

Blaster master somehow gets incorporated into fire full time.

[Aeula]

The story being shit: Guaranteed, see what we've already seen in BfA and the Blizzcon demo

Blizzard coming up with something worse than corruption: Highly likely

Joining Covenants for cosmetics basically to castrating your DPS: Highly likely

Lack of any real non Dungeon/Raid/PvP content outside of World Quests which feel exactly the same in every zone: Almost Guaranteed

World Design being shit: 50/50

Their Mythic+ loot changes being scaled back to include more RNG: Likely

Some new form of hideous microtransaction being introduced: Unlikely but always a possibility

Blizzard introducing some new rules in their T&C: Always possible

Torghast being shit and Blizzard putting all their eggs in that basket which people end up hating: Likely

I'd be surprised if it doesn't end up sucking.

[Marxman]

I have a sinking feeling that covenants are going to be the new essence/AP grind that turns the game into a non-stop chore.

Like... just let me do dungeons and raids. That's all I want to do. I'm so tired of mandatory non-group content for character progression.

[DemonDays]

Still a little early on beta/ptr stuff. But can you think of anything that could happen, be changed, removed, or added, that would cause the expansion to become a famous meme as BFA did?

This is my attempt at some examples
-AP grind is Actually back.
-Bottle neck quests get rea-dded at the start of the expac
-no flying at all through the whole thing
-Shamans not being "completed" until patch 9.1.5
-Rng + RnG for items you'll need to complete your legendary - resulting in you not completing your legendary or being "raid ready".. so you have to make a 2nd toon that passes the RNG check >> gets his legendary >> and is brought into raids instead.
-Sylvannas still alive by patch 10.0
-SJW stuff shoved in your face at the cost of good story telling.
~GCDs added to more abilities than ever

What ~could~ go wrong in shadowlands?

Class Design sucking ass.
Returned abilities being garbage filler.
Class design sucking ass.
AP grind well and truly still there.
Certain covenant abilities being mandatory for certain specs. No "choice".
Class design sucking ass.
Sylvanas not being well and truly dead. (confirmed)
Time-gating on time-gating on time-gating on time-gating.
RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG.
Class design sucking ass.
No actual new content besides a repeatable tower with the same assets for 2 years.
Same boring ass patch cycle - raid, WQs, rares, dailies.
Class design sucking ass.

- - - Updated - - -

The story being shit: Guaranteed, see what we've already seen in BfA and the Blizzcon demo

Blizzard coming up with something worse than corruption: Highly likely

Joining Covenants for cosmetics basically to castrating your DPS: Highly likely

Lack of any real non Dungeon/Raid/PvP content outside of World Quests which feel exactly the same in every zone: Almost Guaranteed

World Design being shit: 50/50

Their Mythic+ loot changes being scaled back to include more RNG: Likely

Some new form of hideous microtransaction being introduced: Unlikely but always a possibility

Blizzard introducing some new rules in their T&C: Always possible

Torghast being shit and Blizzard putting all their eggs in that basket which people end up hating: Likely

I'd be surprised if it doesn't end up sucking.

+1 for this post.

No doom and gloom. Just highlighting shit that is incredibly likely from what we've already seen and their current track record.