Mega-Thread: Democratic 2020 Primaries

[Elegiac]

Do you honestly think that when someone talks about releasing "all their medical records" they really mean to include graphic photographs of injuries or surgeries? Do you think they're going to release data of that time they had a nasty cold at 5.5 years of age multiple decades ago? Do you think any politician in history, or alive today, or who will exist in the future would EVER do either of those things?

The answer is obviously "no". You can expand that from politicians to any other niche or population group, and the answer is still "no". That, in turn, means you clearly can't interpret the words to that effect if you want the sentence to be hold any meaning whatsoever.

But hey, continue to expect unreasonable or non-relevant disclosures if you want. That is, of course, your right.

*starts fiddling to the tune of Wakko's 50 States And Their Capitals*

The entire point is that Bernie was setting an unreasonable standard to begin with. Y'all keep deliberately ignoring this.

[Drutt]

Even then it seems petty and pointless to me. I don't know, maybe I'm used to a bit more civility than trying to attack someone over their health (unless they're a crook like Trump).

It's perfectly valid to want to see medical details for an older candidate who has recently suffered a heart attack, even a mild one. That's not an attack, it's a very pertinent concern.
No one wants to see the VP become relevant, failsafe or no.

What isn't reasonable is to expect to see every single document sitting in their medical record, including graphic photos of surgical procedures.

[Drutt]

*starts fiddling to the tune of Wakko's 50 States And Their Capitals*

The entire point is that Bernie was setting an unreasonable standard to begin with. Y'all keep deliberately ignoring this.

I simply don't agree. There's no reasonable way to interpret what he said as a complete release of all medical documents in his entire medical history because it defies common sense.

Perhaps you're not into applying common sense. That's your right, if so.

[Nurasu]

No.

You guys normalized this as being "valid concern". It isn't. But if you repeat the lie often enough to yourself, you probably start believing it.

I've never ever heard concerns raised like these about any democratic candidates anywhere in the western world. It is an entirely american phenomenon to me, as I said, it comes across as if some of the uncivil / petty behaviors of republicans have rubbed off on the american people. This is the kind of fake-concern I'd expect from Fox News, not from decent people.

Other Western nations aren't as polarized. VPs don't have the best track record for being reelected, and Dems can't afford to blow the next 4 to 12 years because their President died 6 days into office.

[Edge-]

I've never ever heard concerns raised like these about any democratic candidates anywhere in the western world.

Have any other candidates in their late 70's had heart attacks while running for the highest office in their country for a 4 year term?

I'm legitimately curious.

It is an entirely american phenomenon to me, as I said, it comes across as if some of the uncivil / petty behaviors of republicans have rubbed off on the american people.

The health of the POTUS matters. A lot. If the POTUS has a condition that could sideline them for months midway through the presidency, that's relevant for US voters to factor into their decisions.

[Telogrus]

“But Bernie Sanders’ dick” is really not something I expected to hear this electoral cycle and it really does nothing but hearken back to the shitshow that was the 2016 primary.

The lengths these people will go to twist themselves into a state of belief where Bernie has never erred, misspoken, broken a promise, or lied.

Bernie: Says he will release all of his medical records, but doesn’t think that photos of the surgery would be included because of common sense

You: BERNIE SANDERS LIED AND HIS SUPPORTERS REFUSE TO ADMIT IT!!!!! THEY’RE JUST LIKE MAGATS!!!!!

[Edge-]

I simply don't agree. There's no reasonable way to interpret what he said as a complete release of all medical documents in his entire medical history because it defies common sense.

Perhaps you're not into applying common sense. That's your right, if so.

Again, and I don't get why folks seem to ignore this, by his own admission he is not living up to his commitment.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ds/4801735002/

When asked to clarify whether he'd be releasing full medical records, Sanders concluded, “I don’t think we will, no.”

So, he's released what other candidates have released, but not held up to his own commitment.

You're all calling Bernie Sanders a liar when you continue to maintain this position.

[JohnBrown1917]

It's not an "attack", it's a valid concern. He's an old guy and he recently had heart attack, even if it was mild.

It is when that is all you argue about while ignoring multiple doctor reports.

[Nurasu]

Bernie: Says he will release all of his medical records, but doesn’t think that photos of the surgery would be included because of common sense

You: BERNIE SANDERS LIED AND HIS SUPPORTERS REFUSE TO ADMIT IT!!!!! THEY’RE JUST LIKE MAGATS!!!!!

The only people saying photos of the surgery are two people in here. Bernie himself said he didn't release everything he could have and isn't going to. I think what he released is adequate, but if he had an EKG done he should be releasing that, and I'm sure he did.

[Edge-]

Bernie: Says he will release all of his medical records, but doesn’t think that photos of the surgery would be included because of common sense

You: BERNIE SANDERS LIED AND HIS SUPPORTERS REFUSE TO ADMIT IT!!!!! THEY’RE JUST LIKE MAGATS!!!!!

This surgery photo thing is entirely brought up by Sanders backers. If you notice, nobody is asking for them in this thread. We're simply point out, that by his own admission Sanders made a commitment and is not seeing through that commitment.

That's it. Nobody wants to see him in a hospital gown. Nobody is asking to see his dick. It's just y'all constantly talking about how we all apparently want to see his dick which is really fucking weird, dude.

[Elegiac]

I simply don't agree. There's no reasonable way to interpret what he said as a complete release of all medical documents in his entire medical history because it defies common sense.

That's nice.

While you insist that couldn't possibly happen, that is what is actually happening in the media and rather than try to reckon with that y'all just retreat into sulking and truculence at how unfair the media is.

Like Ninespine I work in healthcare, and Bernie's "full release of my medical records" sounded exactly like that at the time, which is why I thought it was stupid - and that assessment has borne out since Sanders is Walking It Back™.

- - - Updated - - -

Bernie: Says he will release all of his medical records, but doesn’t think that photos of the surgery would be included because of common sense

You: BERNIE SANDERS LIED AND HIS SUPPORTERS REFUSE TO ADMIT IT!!!!! THEY’RE JUST LIKE MAGATS!!!!!

What is the definition of "all".

[Blur4stuff]

Yes, it's perfectly valid to question the health of a candidate. But, I think most people know that this particular situation is about more than that. It honestly feels like a last ditch effort to grab onto something to bring Sanders down. You can almost feel the excitement in some pundits voices, that they think they finally have something good to attack with.

I do not believe that if you swapped candidates that this would be as big of a fuss as it is. Swap Sanders for Warren, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, etc... and the same folks on TV that have been after Sanders all this time would be defending them or just not talking about it at all. The question in a Town Hall or debate wouldn't even be asked.

[Telogrus]

That's nice.

While you insist that couldn't possibly happen, that is what is actually happening in the media and rather than try to reckon with that y'all just retreat into sulking and truculence at how unfair the media is.

Like Ninespine I work in healthcare, and Bernie's "full release of my medical records" sounded exactly like that at the time, which is why I thought it was stupid - and that assessment has borne out since Sanders is Walking It Back™.

- - - Updated - - -



What is the definition of "all".

Why are you being so hyper-literal all of a sudden? Use common sense.

[eschatological]

Yes, it's perfectly valid to question the health of a candidate. But, I think most people know that this particular situation is about more than that. It honestly feels like a last ditch effort to grab onto something to bring Sanders down. You can almost feel the excitement in some pundits voices, that they think they finally have something good to attack with.

I do not believe that if you swapped candidates that this would be as big of a fuss as it is. Swap Sanders for Warren, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, etc... and the same folks on TV that have been after Sanders all this time would be defending them or just not talking about it at all.

If Warren or Biden had had a heart attack in October, I'd be very concerned about that.

POTUS is the most stressful job in the world if you take it more than halfway seriously unlike Trump. And stress + heart problems are already a problem, but throw on top of it being 78 years old is distressing. The statistic I could find on a brief search is that 2/3rds of people over 65 who've had a heart attack die within 8 years. A lot of that has to do with average life expectancy, which Bernie is already at.

I'm absolutely floored at the idea that Bernie supporters on this forum wouldn't care if Biden had had a heart attack in October and had a stent put in. His eye bled once during a debate and they freaked out. They constantly parse his speech for signs of senility. It beggars belief that Bernie supporters wouldn't care no matter who the candidate was.

[Lenonis]

I've never ever heard concerns raised like these about any democratic candidates anywhere in the western world.

So...you were in a coma during the 2016 election when Hillary's health was discussed every other second?

[shimerra]

Yes, it's perfectly valid to question the health of a candidate. But, I think most people know that this particular situation is about more than that. It honestly feels like a last ditch effort to grab onto something to bring Sanders down. You can almost feel the excitement in some pundits voices, that they think they finally have something good to attack with.

I do not believe that if you swapped candidates that this would be as big of a fuss as it is. Swap Sanders for Warren, Buttigieg, Klobuchar, etc... and the same folks on TV that have been after Sanders all this time would be defending them or just not talking about it at all. The question in a Town Hall or debate wouldn't even be asked.

While I don't doubt that's true for some that this is just another bow in the anything it takes to stop bernie quiver I have to call full blown bull shit on your second bit. I'd bet money people in this very thread would be screaming from the heavens if any of those candidates but especially Biden had had a heart attack mid presidential run and you bet your ass it'd come up in a debate.

[Elegiac]

I'm absolutely floored at the idea that Bernie supporters on this forum wouldn't care if Biden had had a heart attack in October and had a stent put in. His eye bled once during a debate and they freaked out. They constantly parse his speech for signs of senility. It beggars belief that Bernie supporters wouldn't care no matter who the candidate was.

Did they, though?

If you still think Bernie's supporters have ever done anything bad, you clearly just haven't been gaslit sufficiently.

[Drutt]

Again, and I don't get why folks seem to ignore this, by his own admission he is not living up to his commitment.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ds/4801735002/



So, he's released what other candidates have released, but not held up to his own commitment.

You're all calling Bernie Sanders a liar when you continue to maintain this position.

He specifically said in the above clip he won't be releasing full medical records, to the surprise of no one who applied any degree of common sense to what that would entail. This should serve to clarify any confusion over the issue.

That doesn't remotely translate to "calling him a liar", because I don't believe for a second that he ever meant to imply that every single document in his medical history would be released. That is a simply insane expectation to hold.

[Elegiac]

He specifically said in the above clip he won't be releasing full medical records

Why did he claim that he would be doing so in the first place?

As said, this is just left wing "What He Meant Was".

[Drutt]

That's nice.

While you insist that couldn't possibly happen, that is what is actually happening in the media and rather than try to reckon with that y'all just retreat into sulking and truculence at how unfair the media is.

....so, and stay with me here, crazy idea coming...maybe the media are not applying common sense here?

I mean, I realise that sensationalising things in the modern 24/7 news cycle would be amazingly surprising behavior for them to engage in, but maybe there's a teensy bit of truth in it.

Like Ninespine I work in healthcare, and Bernie's "full release of my medical records" sounded exactly like that at the time, which is why I thought it was stupid - and that assessment has borne out since Sanders is Walking It Back™.

Man whose first reaction was "that can't possibly be what he meant" argues to apply statement literally and without use of common sense, more at 4.

Where we will sensationalize the whole thing, naturally.