The Fundamental Problem With Death Knights

[Gastromancer]

give dk's a shadowstep like ability. i'd even be willing to trade death grip for it.

Don't remove my pull!

[Papzer]

Well, and I doubt they will add a third movement skill to death knights. Even smaller possibility than pruning other classes.

[Papzer]

I am just saying you are trying to fix the wrong things.

I used Deaths Advance a while back when following a DH friend through a dungeon, he could run at the same speed as me by default when I used one of my main movement abilities, thats an absolute joke, he was in tears laughing at how useless it is.

Well yeah, its shitty.
But I still think DK's are fine. Just because the dev team is clueless about the game as a whole, that doesn't mean we should get a teleport or something.
Probably they should bring back the 15% movement speed from the old unholy presence, and they should change wraith walk.
Deaths advance is fine.
And probably desecration for pvp, or some aoe snare like that.

No idea how you can say that, so you're saying that if a class is broken that Blizzard should just say, ahh well suck it, its how it is, get over it?

Just get used to it. They are exactly like this since 8.0.



Btw I would like to meet that idiot who thought paladins need a sprint, or rogues should be faster than me while they are in stealth.
Or the person who designed monks or DH's. Meh.
Don't mind me, I am just whining again.

[Lex Icon]

No idea how you can say that, so you're saying that if a class is broken that Blizzard should just say, ahh well suck it, its how it is, get over it?
@Papzer

They arent going to prune every other class just so DK can compete, they are significantly more likely to just fix DK

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The problem isnt that we need more movement abilities, its that Deaths advance and Wraithwalk are absolute trash.

I used Deaths Advance a while back when following a DH friend through a dungeon, he could run at the same speed as me by default when I used one of my main movement abilities, thats an absolute joke, he was in tears laughing at how useless it is.

by that i meant that dk's needs to be adjusted to fit in the current gameplay.

[Donimic]

i think the issue is with your idea of 'fantasy' not meshing with the designers.

also DW can stay the FUCK out of unholy as far as I'm concerned. And this mess about dw spreading disease faster is bullocks since melee autoswing has NEVER been a factor in applying disease.

Does the ability to cuss make you feel like one of the cool kids? Your further need to capitalize it makes me think that you need to do so in order to feel smart/mature/tough. You need some better mentors kid.

[Stacie]

Keep it civil please guys

[Rhaxus]

The fantasy of UH is directly tied to Arthas and his visuals, all the way from WCIII, more than either Frost or Blood so I'm not sure why people keep trying to play this game of it making more sense to be the dual wield spec. I can understand if someone would like the visual for dual wield for UH, but stop acting like it makes more sense, it doesn't, it's simply an opinion. Personally, I like the visual of being a powerful warrior wielding a 2 handed sword, casting dark magic, and summoning the dead.

Grant it mechanically they need to work the spec mechanics. As mentioned elsewhere damage is far too passive at the moment. There should be better interaction with our pets and diseases, plus more work done on our actual melee strikes.

I also agree with the comment they really need to make dual wield a visual option, and maybe even vice versa, I kind of find the idea of playing a combat rogue, with a two-hander intriguing, or a survival hunter dual-wielding axes etc.

i was thinking more about the mechanic introduced in legion, where they also decided on the weapons for the specs: inflicting multiple bursting sores on the enemy

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Nah. The game needs less (fewer?) movement skills, not more.

no game needs fewer options to boost your speed, wow especially is a slogging mess if you can't increase your speed often.

[Astven]

While on my warrior i notice how much fun Heroic Leap and Charge add to the gameplay and whenever i play my dk it's just a relaxing walk in the park... While most other classes just get back into the action straight away with charge / hook / step / jumpy-dh-things after a knockback etc, I do have to walk back. I'm almost always last up to the pillars in mechagon, i'm last after a wipe, i hate knockbacks. On top of that we basically got the old combo point mechanic with festering wounds and a frost playstyle which doesn't appeal to many people.

I do still like the class lore wise and have put a lot of time into it over the years but it slowly but steady gets to a point where other classes are just so much more fun to play while being better at tanking / dps aswell.

I guess a bandaid is all we can ask for since class design is horrible for so many classes and I don't expect major work to happen in the near future so... maybe make Festering Wounds work like modern combo points and rework some of our "mobility" skills to actually make them useful.

[Naiattavain]

Hello friends.

Just to give a little background about myself I've been playing World of Warcraft on and off for the last 12 years or so and primarily during that time the Death Knight class has been my main; I fell in love with them since the beginning and haven't looked back since. I'm more a filthy casual these days but previously I was in high caliber 25m heroic raiding guilds (before mythic days) and have done lots of PvP.

Over the last two expansions, Legion and now BFA, I have noticed Death Knights have gone further and further away from fulfilling their class fantasy though I will admit its mostly up to conjecture what that exactly means. However I will say Blizzard once stated they wanted DKs to be this dark, menacing and destructive class that while slow offer immense power and strength but quite frankly I'm just not seeing it. Yes we are slow and have few movement abilities but we're also not offering much in the damage or utility department either.

Watching the race to world first for 8.2 and not seeing a single Death Knight being represented made be sad. Granted world first guilds make up a fraction of player base and overall community, the fact remains we bring nothing to the table that is of value and we end up just being 'another class'.

In theory Death Knights should be one of the hardest hitting classes in the game but we're simply not. We don't offer raid utility like we use to with AMZ or haste buffs like Icy Veins and Death Grip doesn't work on half the mobs; meanwhile Retribution Paladins offer so much more while also doing the job of Death Knights much better.

FROST
I think it's safe to say at this point that most dislike Dual Wielding for Death Knights because it simply just doesn't fulfill the fantasy and the overwhelming requests to bring 2H back that continue to be ignored is saddening.

Frost has also continued to suffer from scaling issues and the always ends up needed constant band-aid touch ups as the expansion progresses as we've seen. It really needs to be re-designed from the ground up. Only one viable talent build for 2 expansion in a row is also pretty bland and testament to the specializations lack of depth.

UNHOLY
Unholy is a great spec and is also somewhat competitive. The one thing I will say about it is that DW if it's going to be somewhere on the class makes a lot more since on Unholy since it's all about spreading diseases as fast as possible.
__


Overall I would really appreciate if Blizzard could focus a little more on our class, a class that really hasn't been significantly looked at in a long time.

In my opinion we are just constantly overlooked: Same runeforges for 5 expansions in a row now, can't use any of the allied races, starting zone is completely out of date, offer nothing special or unique to raids or compositions and worst of all STILL CANT GET FROSTMOURNE!

after reading and knowing how the blizzard peeps feel i wouldn't ask anything from them. they are heartless after all all the class identity has gone out the window it probably only pisses blizz off to be honest.

[Absintheminded]

I haven’t really enjoyed DK since the Cata changes, and I agree that they need to return to the roots of what made DK’s unique and fun.

My suggestion for Blizz would start with making us a two spec class: DPS and Tank. Our first row of talents would be Blood, Frost, and Unholy with abilities and passives according to the flavor and role.

[Khuzog]

I guess I'm just a heretic because I love dual wield frost way more than I ever did two hander. Even when there was an option for both I took a hard dive into adding a whirling dervish of black-blooded-blades to my ice and snow.

There's so many two-handed specs out there, even Fury's version of dual-wield is two-handers. I understand having the option taken away entirely sucks, though.

[Absintheminded]

I guess I'm just a heretic because I love dual wield frost way more than I ever did two hander. Even when there was an option for both I took a hard dive into adding a whirling dervish of black-blooded-blades to my ice and snow.

There's so many two-handed specs out there, even Fury's version of dual-wield is two-handers. I understand having the option taken away entirely sucks, though.

There’s really no reason to not have the option. Even in Wrath one of the “hybrid” specs was DW Unholy / Frost. I forget the nickname, Shadowfrost or something.

[Rhaxus]

I guess I'm just a heretic because I love dual wield frost way more than I ever did two hander. Even when there was an option for both I took a hard dive into adding a whirling dervish of black-blooded-blades to my ice and snow.

There's so many two-handed specs out there, even Fury's version of dual-wield is two-handers. I understand having the option taken away entirely sucks, though.

i think we should have the option, to me it always made more sense to switch frost to 2h and unholy to dual wield, but i'd never want to force the concept on anyone

[scrappybristol]

Frost def needs more to it.

Like when I think of a frost dk, it's dark and radiating cold and is surrounded by vengeful spirits that attack the dks target with him. Not a pet but something more passive that can be interacted with more with talents.

[Rhaxus]

Frost def needs more to it.

Like when I think of a frost dk, it's dark and radiating cold and is surrounded by vengeful spirits that attack the dks target with him. Not a pet but something more passive that can be interacted with more with talents.

basically shadowy apparitions with auspicious spirits. i'd like that a lot

[Wildcaard]

Personally I have not really been happy with DK since after WotLK due to the change to how runes recharged. It flowed so much better when they started recharging the moment they were used no matter what. And yes I strongly preferred two hand over DW frost as well.

having three different rune types made it a little trickier. i kinda miss the valkyr with the sudden doom procs tbh

[Leonton]

The games easy there's no need to be draconian on loot. The pots and buffs are way more than what's needed to clear the raids out so why not have fun and let people gear there meme builds for wpvp. Our whole guild was set up by mates to feed ourselves loot so we can make meme builds.

[Absintheminded]

having three different rune types made it a little trickier. i kinda miss the valkyr with the sudden doom procs tbh

It wasn't tricky, your abilities used specific runes and all you needed to do was learn a rotation. No different than now.

[DemonDays]

Hello friends.

Just to give a little background about myself I've been playing World of Warcraft on and off for the last 12 years or so and primarily during that time the Death Knight class has been my main; I fell in love with them since the beginning and haven't looked back since. I'm more a filthy casual these days but previously I was in high caliber 25m heroic raiding guilds (before mythic days) and have done lots of PvP.

Over the last two expansions, Legion and now BFA, I have noticed Death Knights have gone further and further away from fulfilling their class fantasy though I will admit its mostly up to conjecture what that exactly means. However I will say Blizzard once stated they wanted DKs to be this dark, menacing and destructive class that while slow offer immense power and strength but quite frankly I'm just not seeing it. Yes we are slow and have few movement abilities but we're also not offering much in the damage or utility department either.

Watching the race to world first for 8.2 and not seeing a single Death Knight being represented made be sad. Granted world first guilds make up a fraction of player base and overall community, the fact remains we bring nothing to the table that is of value and we end up just being 'another class'.

In theory Death Knights should be one of the hardest hitting classes in the game but we're simply not. We don't offer raid utility like we use to with AMZ or haste buffs like Icy Veins and Death Grip doesn't work on half the mobs; meanwhile Retribution Paladins offer so much more while also doing the job of Death Knights much better.

FROST
I think it's safe to say at this point that most dislike Dual Wielding for Death Knights because it simply just doesn't fulfill the fantasy and the overwhelming requests to bring 2H back that continue to be ignored is saddening.

Frost has also continued to suffer from scaling issues and the always ends up needed constant band-aid touch ups as the expansion progresses as we've seen. It really needs to be re-designed from the ground up. Only one viable talent build for 2 expansion in a row is also pretty bland and testament to the specializations lack of depth.

UNHOLY
Unholy is a great spec and is also somewhat competitive. The one thing I will say about it is that DW if it's going to be somewhere on the class makes a lot more since on Unholy since it's all about spreading diseases as fast as possible.
__


Overall I would really appreciate if Blizzard could focus a little more on our class, a class that really hasn't been significantly looked at in a long time.

In my opinion we are just constantly overlooked: Same runeforges for 5 expansions in a row now, can't use any of the allied races, starting zone is completely out of date, offer nothing special or unique to raids or compositions and worst of all STILL CANT GET FROSTMOURNE!

100% agree with your assessment that Death Knights should be one of the hardest hitting classes in the game.

A slow moving Juggernaut of death. The fact that "bursting" a sore on Unholy does pitiful damage is really weird to me. Diseases should do consistent DoT damage then if you get on top of them you should hit like a truck.

We have the worst mobility in the game.


Frost... Haven't touched Frost since it went dual wield. Fuck that.

[Zorachus]

My fundamental problem with the death knight class is the rotation and cooldowns and rune regeneration.

I wish ruins regenerate in like a quarter of a second and just make everything more fluid and faster The game would be a lot more fun if you're playing like with lust always on 24/7.

Right now both my blood and an holy guys are i450 And I have haste of almost 30% And both rotation still feel a little clunky they're great when you first start a fight they're fast and smooth but once that fight lasts more than 10 seconds it seems to have cool down issues or waiting for stuff to regenerate

I miss the Wrath days, with a solid strict rotation of spells 1 2 3 4 5 rinse and repeat 1 2 3 4 5. Or at least like frost with the procs always going off on a couple different spells That's fine you know the two or three spells you need to concentrate on and then flashlight should get a proc and you hit that and it seems to be fluid and never downtime .