BWL world first progression thread

[WashedUpRaider]

You clearly did not do LFR very much in MoP.

Bosses like Garalon are the reason they added determination buffs after a wipe.

I've always done the bare minimum of LFR to fill in set pieces at the start of a tier. Thats about it. Joys of being a mythic raider in top 5 US guilds for every expac ive taken even remotely serious.

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You clearly did not do LFR at all, and maybe only couple of months after it's been released.
I've been on Achimonde LRF with my mythic-cleared main trippling people dps and still wiped 7 times.

Heck, Uldir/BoD/EP had at least 1-3 bosses where people wiped couple of times. Pretty much every raid got one.

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That is actually wrong.
If you want to compare amount of guilds that cleared normal first day
that would be like ~200 guilds first day for nyalotha:
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/ra...7600000&page=4
and 65 on heroic.

That will give you a 265 groups killing nzoth normal or heroic first day

vs

1758 first day kills on Nefarian

https://classic.warcraftlogs.com/zon...ss=617&page=36

And by first day i mean around 24-48h period of time.

Incomparable.

It's not all about "theorycrafting" and knowledge. When fights are easy, anyone with half brain can do it.

wrong. Try again. I did do it at a bare minimum tho.

[Nite92]

Yes, bwl is easy for me and if your IQ is above room temperature it should be for you too.
However with that comparison i question that.

If BWL is easy or not depends on your gear.

[Ghostile]

If BWL is easy or not depends on your gear.

Everything is hard if you go in unprepared.

[arkanon]

If BWL is easy or not depends on your gear.

In general, difficulty depends on what you are comparing it to - and in most cases, people saying it is easy are comparing it to Retail, where it sits around LFR difficulty, which obviously is extremely easy compared to the other 3 higher difficulties. Although normal mode in current raid has been pulled back quite a bit in difficulty compared to the last few raids, its still more challenging than anything vanilla or classic have to offer.

Obviously your comment is accurate though, im not saying you are WRONG, but that goes for absolutely every piece of content in the game, or any game really. Kinda like saying "seeing things is harder with your eyes shut"

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Everything is hard if you go in unprepared.

See above for a.....different way of saying the same thing.

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of being a mythic raider in top 5 US guilds for every expac ive taken even remotely serious.

Well, i have always been in a top 4 EU guild on any spec i have ever taken seriously, so my opinion is actually worth more than yours, so kindly move along.

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I thought it will be much harder. Was fun tho xD

This is my opinion as well, the fact its extremely simplistic shouldnt detract from having fun - anyone playing classic for the challenging content is going to be very disapointed. Luckily there is a version of the game that provides that challenge in spades, so there really isnt a "problem"

There was just as many ppl saying it would be extremely easy as there were saying it would be hard. Obviously some may have chosen to believe the wrong people, but thats on them - there remains countless videos from vanilla and more from PS that show just how simple all the content is.

[Biske]

-snip-

Completely unrelated, but is your name the thing Draenei say?

[arkanon]

Completely unrelated, but is your name the thing Draenei say?

No, however when BC came out we all had a good laugh - used the same name since mid 90s, but you are right that it certainly sounds the same.

googled the spelling:

"Archenon poros"

[Biske]

No, however when BC came out we all had a good laugh - used the same name since mid 90s, but you are right that it certainly sounds the same.

googled the spelling:

"Archenon poros"

Aww. If it was "Arkanon poros", then it would be you with poros from League of Legends.

[Nite92]

In general, difficulty depends on what you are comparing it to - and in most cases, people saying it is easy are comparing it to Retail, where it sits around LFR difficulty, which obviously is extremely easy compared to the other 3 higher difficulties. Although normal mode in current raid has been pulled back quite a bit in difficulty compared to the last few raids, its still more challenging than anything vanilla or classic have to offer.

Obviously your comment is accurate though, im not saying you are WRONG, but that goes for absolutely every piece of content in the game, or any game really. Kinda like saying "seeing things is harder with your eyes shut"

Yeah, 100% true. You need to take my comment in context. I was replying to a guy who said that your IQ is about room temperature if you can't clear BWL, which is dumb, because it takes quite an effort to make BWL easy, you need to farm MC for months.

[Millyraynge]

Yeah, 100% true. You need to take my comment in context. I was replying to a guy who said that your IQ is about room temperature if you can't clear BWL, which is dumb, because it takes quite an effort to make BWL easy, you need to farm MC for months.

each individual has it's own comfort zone in terms of difficulty. There are uncountable quantitative und qualitative reasons why an individual perceive something more or less resistant.

WOW has a lot to do with dedication. But what happend when the general conditions do not met the own preferences? This would lower the level of dedication you are consciously or unconsciously willing to invest. There are so many logical and illogical connections to define perceived difficulty... even connections which have nothing to do with the game primarily.

[Jastall]

Limit and Method can clear any BfA mythic raid in 2 hours now, does it mean its easy for me and you?

Given that literally thousands of guilds have cleared BWL and that it gets pugged already, against barely more than a dozen having cleared Ny'alotha, I very much question not only your comparison, but the intent behind it.

[Ermelloth]

I'd say BWL is closer to Normal retail difficulty. LFR is completely brainless, on most of bosses you can't physically wipe, and DPS can spam 2-3 buttons and stand in fire, etc, cause healers are simply overhealing them with endless mana (in Classic it can still end).

[collax]

MC = almost lfr difficulty
BWL = normal
AQ40 = hc
Naxx = mythic

[Shammyrock]

lmfao

less than an hour I'm dead

[Divinex]

MC = almost lfr difficulty
BWL = normal
AQ40 = hc
Naxx = mythic

Nah its
MC=Mythic Dungeon
BWL = LFR
AQ = Normal
Naxx = Heroic

[Tojara]

MC = LFR, with Ragnaros being a normal mode boss.
BWL = A mixture of LFR and normal mode bosses.
AQ = Mostly normal mode bosses, with a few heroic bosses.
Naxxaramas = A few normal mode bosses, with the majority being heroic level bosses.

Keep in mind when I talk about the difficulty compared to retail, I'm referring to when a content patch is first released. Naxxaramas is about as hard, or maybe slightly easier than a fresh heroic raid on live.

Classic isn't hard by any means, and you can make it a lot easier if you choose to spend time outside of raids preparing and raid logging for your next raid by getting world buffs. You'll get as much, if not more power from consumables and world buffs than you ever world upgrading your BiS dungeons blues to Naxxaramas gear, especially if you're melee. A lot of it's hard to compare. Imagine a guild that just goes in with consumables to BWL, versus a guild that uses consumables, flasks and world buffs.

If world buffs weren't a thing, you could probably notch up the difficulty of classic raids by a slight margin. Would it be close to retail? Absolutely not. Some of these guilds clearing raids in super fast times don't really even have mechanics because of how much DPS they can produce (stacked raids of like 16 warriors, with tons of world buffs lol).

[Nitros14]

Flasks, stacking consumables and world buffs are so absurdly powerful in classic that the game can seem very easy indeed.

Naxxramas will be reasonably challenging to clear if you aren't using flasks and world buffs.

[Echocho]

Yeah, 100% true. You need to take my comment in context. I was replying to a guy who said that your IQ is about room temperature if you can't clear BWL, which is dumb, because it takes quite an effort to make BWL easy, you need to farm MC for months.

True. You need enough IQ to grasp the concept of gear and that you need it in order to do content.

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Naxxramas will be reasonably challenging to clear if you aren't using flasks and world buffs.

It wasn't particularly difficult without those 14 years ago and that was with suboptimal gear, group setups, tactics and skill. I doubt it'll be harder this time around.

[Nitros14]

It wasn't particularly difficult without those 14 years ago and that was with suboptimal gear, group setups, tactics and skill. I doubt it'll be harder this time around.

I mean that's not really true.

If you look back at what people thought at the time about Loatheb for example




Only 81 guilds actually cleared Naxxramas before the 2.0 Burning Crusade pre-patch so 14 years ago it was definitely considered difficult.

With knowledge of how it works and modern knowledge of how to min-max it won't be too bad, but doing bosses like Loatheb and Kel'Thuzad without flasks and world buffs won't be easy at all.


I don't think Ahn'qiraj will be hard at all, partially because it was designed to be done with older talent trees and 8 debuff slots and not what we get for it.

Can't wait for naxx to also get blown over so that this "but it's 1.12" can go away.

Anything in classic will get blown over if you stack world buffs and all consumables. Stuff is straight broken.

Even without though the top guilds will blow it over because they've already farmed it for years on private servers.

[Aphrel]

Can't wait for naxx to also get blown over so that this "but it's 1.12" can go away.

Sure if it wasn't 1.12 it would take slightly longer but it would just be a minor inconvenince. The real reasons are the knowledge and the raids themselves were not that hard to begin with.

nah, 1.12 plays a major role, that and servers doesnt have as high altency combined with ppl doesnt play on 0.5mbit adsl anymore wich probobly amounts for around 15%-25% more dps compared to vanilla.

[Echocho]

Only 81 guilds actually cleared Naxxramas before the 2.0 Burning Crusade pre-patch so 14 years ago it was definitely considered difficult.

Not really. It's just that if you didn't start raiding early on you didn't have a chance to get through Naxxramas. You first had to get gear from MC for 40-60 people in order to do BWL, then you had to get gear from BWL to do AQ and then you had to get gear from AQ to do Naxx. Gearing up an entire raid roster took a very long time.

It was a time gate of epic proportions. If you started late you could just forget about Naxx, of course you didn't end up knowing that until TBC was released and you had just cleared AQ.