mmigration: No visas for low-skilled workers, government says

[Draco-Onis]

Clearly they don't if they aren't prepared to keep those people.

Them leaving benefits those already there with increased bargaining power. Even if at full-employment it isn't as if workers empowerment plateaus in this scenario.

They need people no matter how much they raise the wages they don't have the people within their population to fill a lot of jobs which is leading to shortage in services. Do you get it now?

[Theodarzna]

They need people no matter how much they raise the wages they don't have the people within their population to fill a lot of jobs which is leading to shortage in services. Do you get it now?

There are almost a million people on zero-hours contracts as just an example. Also I'll site David Blanchflower who would argue and effectively does that the UK labour market, like the US labour market, isn't at full employment. If it were wages would substantially rise.

They don't need bodies, they want to undercut workers. Strange for someone presumably Left of the Koch Brothers and the Cato Institute to not understand that.

[Draco-Onis]

There are almost a million people on zero-hours contracts as just an example. Also I'll site David Blanchflower who would argue and effectively does that the UK labour market, like the US labour market, isn't at full employment. If it were wages would substantially rise.

They don't need bodies, they want to undercut workers. Strange for someone presumably Left of the Koch Brothers and the Cato Institute to not understand that.

Let me give you an pretty simple example look at any field where there is a shortage of workers there is a cap on how much employers can raise wages and a point where it doesn't make a difference. That article reads like Trump's "the real unemployment rate is 45%+", large sections of the UK labor market heavily relies on foreign workers because they just don't have the talent domestically or the locals aren't willing to do it.

I don't understand this magical thinking that wages solve everything ask Trump why he gave temporary visas to foreign workers to work certain jobs even though he hate immigrants.

[Theodarzna]

Let me give you an pretty simple example look at any field where there is a shortage of workers there is a cap on how much employers can raise wages and a point where it doesn't make a difference. That article reads like Trump's "the real unemployment rate is 45%+", large sections of the UK labor market heavily relies on foreign workers because they just don't have the talent domestically or the locals aren't willing to do it.

I don't understand this magical thinking that wages solve everything ask Trump why he gave temporary visas to foreign workers even though he hate immigrants.

They have the talent, they don't want to PAY for the talent. Trump gave visas to foreign workers because at the end of the day every powerful billionaire likes cheap labour? And Trump is after all a billionaire?

There is a reason defacto-Open Borders is the preferred policy of both parties.

[Pann]

The UK is at full employment has been for years, what part of they need bodies did you not get?

Full employment does not mean that there is a shortage of people to fill jobs, in general terms it means that the unemployment rate is below 5% which is currently the case in the UK with an estimated 3.9% (1.33million) of people unemployed.

[Theodarzna]

Full employment does not mean that there is a shortage of people to fill jobs, in general terms it means that the unemployment rate is below 5% which is currently the case in the UK with an estimated 3.9% (1.33million) of people unemployed.

It also doesn't mean a land free of zero-hour contracts, part time low benefits and low pay work.

[Draco-Onis]

Full employment does not mean that there is a shortage of people to fill jobs, in general terms it means that the unemployment rate is below 5% which is currently the case in the UK with an estimated 3.9% (1.33million) of people unemployed.

So your theory is that all these sectors advertising, raising wages and begging for people due to foreign workers leaving are what faking it?

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They have the talent, they don't want to PAY for the talent.

That's not how talent or population works.

[Theodarzna]

So your theory is that all these sectors advertising, raising wages and begging for people due to foreign workers leaving are what faking it?

Ad campaigns are a thing. I recall under Obama all the talk of a "Skills Gap" in the USA. Which was really just kvetching that big-tech had to pay programmers something above minimum wage.

[Draco-Onis]

Ad campaigns are a thing. I recall under Obama all the talk of a "Skills Gap" in the USA. Which was really just kvetching that big-tech had to pay programmers something above minimum wage.

Are they faking the increase wait times and worse service too?

[Pann]

So your theory is that all these sectors advertising, raising wages and begging for people due to foreign workers leaving are what faking it?

It is not a theory - that is the accepted definition - and the rest is simply something you made up.

[Theodarzna]

That's not how talent or population works.

Thanks you me having a memory that extends before Trumps election, or before last thursday, I can remember when the US Tech industry also claimed there was a Skills Gap and a huge shortage of talent. It turns out the US Had no shortage of talent. Though if new laws make it easier to just important and replace people you can get talent for far cheaper as the bargaining power shifts in favor of Capital and Management.

I am unsure why someone, presumably to the Left of Ronald Reagan, is taking billionaires and elite interest groups and lobbyists at face value.

[Draco-Onis]

Thanks you me having a memory that extends before Trumps election, or before last thursday, I can remember when the US Tech industry also claimed there was a Skills Gap and a huge shortage of talent. It turns out the US Had no shortage of talent. Though if new laws make it easier to just important and replace people you can get talent for far cheaper as the bargaining power shifts in favor of Capital and Management.

I am unsure why someone, presumably to the Left of Ronald Reagan, is taking billionaires and elite interest groups and lobbyists at face value.

Here's something obvious the US is not the UK and another thing the US was not at full employment in 2016 it technically isn't since we calculate it differently.

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It is not a theory - that is the accepted definition - and the rest is simply something you made up.

It's called the reality of the situation on the ground it is currently estimated to be costing the UK £6.3 billion per year and rising. The most concerning for the UK itself is the medical field which already had a labor problem even before Brexit.

[Machismo]

Forced Sterilization is on what planet the moral equivalent of saying "Hey, we aren't going to have an unlimited flow of people into a region to keep wages low"?

You are the one who wants to forcefully lower the supply of labor... you tell me.

On top of that, you also want to forcefully punish people who dont have kids. Talk about conflicting beliefs.

[Pann]

Here's something obvious the US is not the UK and another thing the US was not at full employment in 2016 it technically isn't since we calculate it differently.

The US definition of full employment is an unemployment rate of between 4-6.4% therefore with an unemployment rate of 4.9% as of Jan '16 it was at full employment.

It's called the reality of the situation on the ground it is currently estimated to be costing the UK £6.3 billion per year in rising. The most concerning for the UK itself is the medical field which already had a labor problem even before Brexit.

What reality is this? I'm not sure why you're bringing the medical field into the topic as a) it is in general a high skilled sector and b) health workers will be exempt from many of the current immigration proposals.

[Draco-Onis]

The US definition of full employment is an unemployment rate of between 4-6.4% therefore with an unemployment rate of 4.9% as of Jan '16 it was at full employment.

The US has several measures of unemployment.....

What reality is this? I'm not sure why you're bringing the medical field into the topic as a) it is in general a high skilled sector and b) health workers will be exempt from many of the current immigration proposals.

Because I mentioned both skilled and unskilled labor, the problem the UK has is that of image and legislation like that affects both not sure why I had to spell it out for you.

[Theodarzna]

Here's something obvious the US is not the UK and another thing the US was not at full employment in 2016 it technically isn't since we calculate it differently.

I wasn't unaware the concept of supply and demand didn't exist in the UK but only in the US. Also we are talking 2013, not 2016.

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It's called the reality of the situation on the ground it is currently estimated to be costing the UK £6.3 billion per year and rising. The most concerning for the UK itself is the medical field which already had a labor problem even before Brexit.

Doctors are lowskilled workers?

[Pann]

The US has several measures of unemployment.....

That is the US measurement for full employment or more to the point The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development's measurement.

Because I mentioned both skilled and unskilled labor, the problem the UK has is that of image and legislation like that affects both not sure why I had to spell it out for you.

Why did you mention skilled labour? The whole thread is about low skilled workers and the possibility that they will not be granted visas in future. Does it? I think you'll find that this is your perception and that perception and reality are two very different things.

[Draco-Onis]

I wasn't unaware the concept of supply and demand didn't exist in the UK but only in the US. Also we are talking 2013, not 2016.

I know you are not stupid and understand that there is a cap on employee salaries, in the example I gave the seasonal worker salaries almost doubled but companies were going out of business because they didn't have people for the season which is why Trump was forced to grant the temporary visas. We have several examples of this in other sectors of the economy raising wages doesn't magically change the nature of the job.

Doctors are lowskilled workers?

see below

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That is the US measurement for full employment.

And any economist worth their salt will tell you it isn't because that's just the top line number.

Why did you mention skilled labour? The whole thread is about low skilled workers and the possibility that they will not be granted visas in future. Does it? I think you'll find that this is your perception and that perception and reality are two very different things.

Does PR not exist in your reality? you don't get how a country where people are leaving due to the perception that immigrants are not welcomed is not helped by this? no then I can't help the fact that you are so dense.

[Pann]

And any economist worth their salt will tell you it isn't because that's just the top line number.

Well The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development appear to disagree with you but I mean what do they know compared to some bloke on a forum?!?

Does PR not exist in your reality? you don't get how a country where people are leaving due to the perception that immigrants are not welcomed is not helped by this? no then I can't help the fact that you are so dense.

And yet more people continue to immigrate to the UK than emigrate from it so I guess all these migrants didn't get all this PR?!?

But, yeah, you're right a doctor will most certainly turn down a hundred grand all because someone from Bulgaria can't easily move to the UK to pick lettuce for (less than) minimum wage.

[Elegiac]

Yes I remember how deporting all the Mexican workers from California got all the tomato harvesting jobs back in the hands of the people who are entitled to those jobs for reasons that I’m sure aren’t racist.

Just kidding! They invented machine harvestable tomatoes and those jobs disappeared entirely, lol.