[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Gorsameth]

Not so at all, US trade deal all but signed and that global premier top tier organisation Five_Eyes, is secure. Hopefully the EU will progress sufficiently one day, be trusted and included into the world watchdog.

Boris Johnson calls Trump's bluff as enraged President caves in after Huawei decision.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...igence-sharing

EU not there yet though, some way to go methinks.

Please point to the part where it says the US deal is all but signed when the acticle you linked barely mentions the trade deal and says

The UK is thought to see discussions with the US over a future trading relationship start later this month.

So your 'all but signed' deal hasn't even begone talks yet.

[Kallisto]

Brexit voter in fact getting what he voted for. Almost like he didn't actually know what he was voting for.

Funny thing is the actual queues were not because of Brexit due to the fact that until January 1st British citizens are to be treated like EU citizens entering/leaving EU nations as per the transition period.

Second thing is that Brexiteers are hypocrites. I can't find the poll right now but just before/after the vote in 2016 there was a poll which asked basically "Should British citizens have right to freely travel/work in EU?" as question 1 with question 2 being "Should EU citizens have the right to freely travel and work in the UK."

The difference between the two is like night and day. They honestly believed they should be able to park their fat arses in Europe, while EU citizens have tons of blocks to go through for the same rights.

[ranzino]

Brexit voter in fact getting what he voted for. Almost like he didn't actually know what he was voting for.

Schiphol was training new staff, causing the queue; it is mentioned in the long twitter thread.
but still: he better get accustomed to such queues.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Brexiteers complain they've to wait hours in queue at EU airports (unlike other EU passengers)

This is worth a chuckle at least.

I dunno, depending on which flights arrive and who is on your flight, the non-EU queue can be quicker. When travelling from the UK to Germany I've, on occasion, gone to the "non-EU" desk because there was nobody waiting there while there were queues for the automatic gates (especially when people are using them for the first time) or the EU desks. That 5 minutes saved has been the difference between catching the train and having to take the one an hour later in the past.

[Thereturn]

Has britain devolved into a bankrupt shithole yet? Were the sceptics right?

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Has britain devolved into a bankrupt shithole yet? Were the sceptics right?

Still got nearly a year until freedom of movement of goods, capital and people stops.

[Blur4stuff]

By all indications Brexit will harm the country and its people, yes. But, I don't think the country will turn into a post apocalyptic hellscape. People's lives will be a bit worse, some more than others. I guess it depends on what country you compare it to. Still better than living in Somalia or Russia? Absolutely. Probably worse than living in a dozen other European countries, though (EU or not).

I suppose if you're dedicated and love the UK then you have to hope it doesn't break apart and you can rejoin the EU in a few decades. Try your best to make it a better place in the meantime, but have realistic expectations that it won't be able to compete with other countries in the region and dozens of others around the world.

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

This is mostly an indictment of direct democracy. I mean if we asked people in a referendum if they wanted to not pay taxes, do you think you would not get a majority that wanted to never pay taxes again? Ask stupid questions, get stupid answers

Depends on education and political maturity of said population. For example we have been known to accept tax hikes, block tax breaks and say no to more paid-leave.

[Elegiac]

Depends on education and political maturity of said population. For example we have been known to accept tax hikes, block tax breaks and say no to more paid-leave.

Democracy is great except for when it sucks.

I do think there's a case to be made for the existence of irresponsible democracy - like, a practice/decision can be both democratic and bad, and we shouldn't necessarily shy away from systemic measures to mitigate irresponsible democracy. Like requiring a supermajority for a plebiscite of Brexit's level of significance, for example. Or requiring a plan be voted on in legislative session before it's submitted for a public vote.

But the UK is like the furthest thing in Europe from a rationalised democratic state so in hindsight a fuckup on this scale was kind of inevitable really. It's like finding out the office thot finally caught something and having to pretend to be surprised.

[caervek]

Can't imagine how remain lost with its utter contempt for democracy.

Remains problem had nothing to do with democracy (as trying to stop Brexit didn't become a thing until after the referendum), Remains problem was actually extremely simple: The Brexit position itself is grounded in ignorance and stupidity, and so in order to explain to a Brexiteer why they are wrong/misinformed/etc you end up forcing them to confront their own ignorance/stupidity and sadly almost always when that happens then instead of accepting reality their mind simply forces them to double down on their beliefs in some kind of defence mechanism, they simply refuse to accept that what they believe could possibly be untrue even when confronted with overwhelming evidence.

And that was the big problem, how do you convince somebody of the truth when they find their lies more comforting? How do you explain the facts to them when they perceive the very action of explaining facts too them as talking down to/insulting them?

The saddest thing is it's probably going to be close to 20 years before the UK rejoins the EU (not including any parts that cede from the union and rejoin the EU before then), and even then there will still be many who claim that Brexit was a good idea and it only failed because the EU were mean to us/etc /sigh.

[Crispin]

It was a matter of the Brexiteers cooking up whatever lies they wanted (250$ NHS bus f.ex), while the remain side sticked to facts. Whether they would have done the same, if it was a vote to join the EU is specualtion. But Remain's argument was purely "more of the same, which is a good thing", despite idiots like Cameron had spent years bitching about the EU to get some benefits at Brussels. He spent years literally campaignin for Brexit, and the Brexiteers, who does not give a shit about the common man, how could they, were free to lie without any consiquences whatsoever.

Democracy is shit, when it's ok for politicians to have impossible dreams on their program. Any decent democracy should honestly hold them accountable for the promises they spew. Obviously not everything in you campaign turns out with a majority for it, but they should be meassured on whether it's unachievable, and if it is achievable, did they try to achieve it. The whole "We'll judge with our votes!!!!... in 4 years" is a joke.

[ati87]

I was thinking of the recent election. The contempt for democracy was something that kept coming up.

First, there are in fact some people who have a much greater understanding of politics than you or I who can give a plausible and reasoned justification for Brexit, mostly on the far left. They are not very numerous but they exist.

Second there is a larger group of people who voted Brexit because they figured a) politicians have been lying to them all their lives so b) they should probably do the opposite of what they are saying. I sympathize to some extent with those people. They don't have the considerable time necessary to cut through all the bullshit.

I'd add conversely that many remainers by and large come across as almost as disgusting as their political opponents, persistently using piss-weak paper-thin arguments when stronger ones were readily available. I've lost count of the times I've heard some idiot tell me how the banks that stole everyone's money are going to leave and this is somehow a bad thing. These people never seemed to consider pointing out that without EU labour laws British workers are likely to have their wages cut and their hours lengthened.
I suspect the remainers would have actually won had they just kept a dignified silence through the whole campaign.

Now you are just being selective. People have pointed out labour laws as an important reason.
Second the argument of banks leaving was always an response to whatever justification Brexit folks came up with.

[Slant]

Remain never had paper-thin arguments. Remain always had just one question: "Why?" and it never got answered. I think by now we all realised that the true answer is "Because we were bored and wanted to burn this country into the ground just to see how it feels like." And then it got eventually replaced with "You dare hate on FC Brexit? I'll have you know that FC Brexit is the best team on the planet, and I'd rather die than betray FC Brexit." and now it's slowly turning into "Ok, so it's a shit idea, but it's my idea and don't you even try telling me I did wrong, because my momma told me I am special and always right."

As for paper-thin arguments, I've made it a hobby to just take any Brexiteer argument and destroy it on its own merits. I rarely, if ever, outright made a case FOR the EU. It sufficed to just destroy the bullshit coming out of the Brexit camp. And if that doesn't satisfy you, I can slam dunk this shitshow and give you a strong argument: The EU has been at peace internally since it's inception. Compare that to 2000 years of wars in Europe on smaller or bigger scales happening somewhere constantly. Call that a paper-thin argument and I'll know who's a hypocrite.

[Mayhem]

You ignored everything I just said and ignored the concrete example I just explained.

Because that's the best approach to your soon-to-be deleted posts.

[Slant]

You ignored everything I just said and ignored the concrete example I just explained.

You don't live here, and you have demonstrated on numerous occasions that you have at best a vague understanding of what goes on here which is mostly filtered through German mainstream media outlets.

The issue is rather more complicated than "everyone who disagrees with me is bad", to state the blindingly obvious.

"As for paper-thin arguments, I've made it a hobby to just take any Brexiteer argument and destroy it on its own merits. "

You have never "destroyed" any argument. You come across as sub-intellectual. You foam at the mouth but your logic is entirely circular and would convince no one who did not already agree with you. If I was pro-brexit I would be taking quotes directly from you as evidence of how the europeans hate us, or whatever.

I don't care what goes on over there. You're no longer part of the EU. As for what used to go on, I understood perfectly what was going on. And many British agreed with me at the time. You are not that complicated. You are in fact not a mystery to the rest of the world. You are not an enigma that is exactly hard to figure out. Stupid people made stupid choices and refuse to bear the consequences. There, that's what you are as a nation.

And you can insult my intelligence all day long, if you like. I don't care, nor am I impressed by you yet again not coming up with an actual argument. Because Brexiteers never do. They don't actually HAVE an argument. Or a case.

Europeans don't hate the British. Not even Brexiteers. We think they're funny as heck, but you are, frankly spoken, not important enough to actually make anyone hate you.

Just for the record, I don't consume German media outlets. I mean, that's another bullshit myth destroyed right there, but now you'll start some wild conspiracy about how I am lying and I should prove it and shit, because if I don't fit into your fucked up little box that you created for me, I must be lying. Guess what, Google News is where it's at. I'm actually reading mostly British papers on Brexit. And the odd European news source, mostly because they seem to be able to cite original EU press releases. A feat English media has somehow unlearned... proper journalism, that is.

And I happen to read the Washington Post and other US media for US matters. And I read German news sources for things concerning German things. See, the beauty of it is that I can read 4-5 different papers on the same subject if I want to. How's the Daily Fail doing for you?

[Flarelaine]

Europeans don't hate the British. Not even Brexiteers.

I definitely despise Nigel Fromage, though.

[Fuiking]

Might I add Reese-Mong in that list?

[Slant]

I definitely despise Nigel Fromage, though.

Yeah well, he's an individual and not "the British people" nor representative for them.

[Mayhem]

It's pretty quiet, nothing happing rn?

[Kallisto]

It's pretty quiet, nothing happing rn?

The biggest brexit news right now is in the immigration thread after petty Patel made her "I hate the poor and foreign." comments with the whole 8 million non workers (of which 10k at most are work shy) should do slave wage labour.