I think she chose the most obnoxious, insufferable and overall worst way to get to her goal.
Example: I need to hang a painting. I can put a nail in the wall, stick it with a hammer, and be done.
OR
I can shoot at the wall until I make a hole big enough, shove a red-hot iron rod inside without wearing gloves, and jam the painting square in the middle, then proclaim that everything was planned.
Guess which solution Sylvanas chose in comparison
We already know that, though?
They confirmed it at Blizzcon. She's been in league with the Jailer since she threw herself off ICC.
She's been working with the Jailer for a while now. She's been a part of that "problem" with the Shadowlands and the Maw taking all the souls since it started. She's not solving it, she's helping it.
Yeah well whatever she is right now she remains my favorite character. The only name that gets so many people riled up and triggered upon mention aside Sylvanas is Trump.
That's what we'd do, come up with something together and prevail through combined strength. Never been Sylvanas's way. To her the rest are at best assets. If she saw a great threat in the death realms she probably figured the denizens of Azeroth were too ignorant or too naive to understand or be able to do what needs to be done to stop it. Talking to them about it would be a waste of time so better to just get to work. There's arrogance in her belief she can handle this herself, but that's part of her character. Or she's opting for the Lelouch choice and in some way making it possible for us to defeat the Jailer.
Shadowlands will show if this is the case. It could just be Sylvanas forsook everyone and is 100% in cahoots with the Jailer or at least using him to her own benefit. I'm humoring the possibility there's a hint of empathy in her motivations because of the Loyalist choice. Without it the Loyalists are patsies. Also, Warcraft's stories have been rather formulaic; the trope of characters coming from good starting points having redeeming qualities in the end is strong in the franchise.
Now you see it. Now you don't.
But was where Dalaran?
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!
Which is utter BS. The denizens of Azeroth not that long ago went to another timeline in outer space to build a forward camp to fight figures from the past. One of whom caused a demon spaceship invasion. Sylvanas knows that as War Chief the Horde will follow her, but she's written to turn on them anyways because we need a strong hook for the next expansion and Blizzard is betting people still care about Sylvanas.
The fact that people still kick around a redemption arc for her is silly. Will Blizzard do it? Maybe, but keep in mind they don't even have to bother trying to justify it with anything. They didn't with AU-Grommash. Meanwhile, Yrel went evil. Undead Night Elves are eager to kill their own families after having been raised for six seconds. Anyone's morality is completely fluid depending on the person writing them. If Blizzard does attempt to redeem her you can bet your bottom dollar it won't be deserved and will paint the Night Elves up as jackasses for having the gall to be offended by the fact that she butchered innocents for reasons that will be entirely swept under the rug.
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What a load of bull. When you've committed genocide then you by default are the villain even though you had subjective reasons. Life is a series of choices, she chose to accept the deal instead of dying, as she originally had planned, because there was no sunshine and rainbows afterlife waiting for her, which we've no way of even knowing is true as the only confirmation we have of what happens to Undead when they die is from the words of the Jailer, who's de facto an unreliable narrator.
By this same logic, you can defend the perpetrators of the Rwandan Genocide and absolve them of guilt as they believed they were justified. I've never before felt revulsion about someone who posts anywhere and you've made me feel it. You need to reflect on your beliefs because something is wrong with them since you can find a reason to defend this. Yes, see people who do horrible things like people and also know that they did horrible things that they have to accept the consequences of.
Do you know what the most terrifying aspect of the Nürnberg Trails was? That everyone put before the judge looked so normal, looked so much like you and me instead of as the propaganda had portrayed them. At the end of the day, it was ordinary people who had participated in genocide because of ideology or work ethics. Forget human ethics or moral ethics as you so clearly do in your post.
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!
Which could be a lie just like a whole bunch of things they said about BfA.
But yes. She is an arrogant bitch who thinks she knows better than anyone and is either sacreficing millions for her own selfish goals, or thinks that it is a good idea to double cross a millenia old entity who is the source of her power and can probably take it back any time he wants. Either way, we will be better of when she is gone.
She massacred thousands of innocent elves.
So, yeah, she is a super villain. I don't care what Blizzard tries to pull in Shadowlands.
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"I would let Anduin ravish me." - aiko
At this point I'm fairly sure people would still defend her even if she ate a baby whole in a future cinematic.
"B-but you don't see her real goal!"
The Loyalists being a factor in Sylvanas's empathy is more a nod to Blizz not declaring half its Horde players patsies. Otherwise I meant Sylv would feel some semblance of empathy towards mortals at large or something. She cared about her people in life, so it would go against the trope to completely devoid herself of that. I would be surprised if that was the case.
Now you see it. Now you don't.
But was where Dalaran?
But that is the case. So much so that after the Loyalist questline she reveals that for years she thought the Forsaken were fools, for clinging to hope, for clinging to life, for disregarding what she "taught" them. She even tried to kill Alleria and Vereesa, both of whom were her sisters and merely wanted to see her again. Though she ultimately couldn't bring herself to do it, that didn't stop her from trying to kill Alleria later on at Lordaeron.
Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-02-21 at 03:50 PM.
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!
Though I also feel like with Emet-Selch, there was also the difference that SE never tried to sell to us, that he is actually a morally grey guy or not so bad or anything. He is clearly a Villain and when he became antagonistic to us, he clearly enjoyed acting like a theatric villain. He is just open with his ambitions, he wants his friends and family back and he doesn't view the lives on anyone on Eorzea worth living and therefore, he is just unable to care in the slightest about all the suffering he causes. Together with his actually intelligent scheme and his great personality, I think this makes him so great. There is not trying to sell him to us as a secret good guy or morally grey. We can understand his desire to be re-united with his people, but his utter lack of empathy and care towards mortals and the way he is open about building a gigantic expansionist empire for the sole cause of causing global genocide makes him just morally black. Though I have to say, I enjoy Zenos more. He is clearly overpowered to an insane level to the point where he can scare an Ascian away without even being in his real body, but Square is able to make it work, while Sylvanas being overpowered comes off as nothing but cringy. And he is able to be an interesting Villain despite the fact, that he is just utterly chaotic evil. I also loved how he actually was able to steal the victory from us back in the 4.0 MSQ simply by commiting suicide to escape justice.
I generally feel like Blizz could learn a ton from FF14s writing. I mean, look at Alphinaud, he started basically as an elf version of Anduin and his character development since then was just incredibly.
It's been a while since I saw the movie, and haven't gotten around to the series yet (my watch list is longer than my arm). In the comic, he created fake monsters and caused widespread deaths in order to unite the world behind a false alien/eldritch threat, to avoid the Cold War's rapidly-approaching nuclear exchange (the metaplot of Watchmen is that Ozy gathered the most famous heroes to try and avoid nuclear war; unfortunately most of the people he recruited were nihilists like The Comedian and Rorschach,, racist reactionaries, or adrenaline junkies like Nite Owl II and Silk Spectre II). This is an understandable goal with noble intentions, accomplished through monstrous ends. It makes Veidt an extremely morally grey character, one who knows what he just did is unforgivable and the peak of unethical.
Sylvanas is no Veidt. Her actions are borne of a fear of eternity in the same hell she's blithely damned countless others to, soldier and civilian alike. Even if the authors pull something out of their ass where she was playing a long con and needed an army in the Shadowlands to stop the Jailer, she still spent the past half-decade or so in lore feeding the Jailer so many souls that he's disrupted the balance of power and proper processes in the Shadowlands.
What baffles me is that people twist themselves into pretzels to find reasons she isn't evil even after she practically put a flashing neon sign reading 'I'm the new metaplot villain' over her head.
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Sylvie was never a nice person, but in BfA writers went quite out of their way to make sure that she's no longer a shadowy, dubious, selfish !@#$% (anyone knew that already from freaking Vanilla) but 200% EEEEBUUUUULLLL, Saturday morning cartoon villain-tier. Hell, even in BfA itself, folks like Zul or King Mechagon are better written than Sylvie. Also, her having maybe the thickest plot armour in the entire game certainly doesn't help, to the point that makes me think she will be Kerriganised by the end of SL.
I'd even say that Elidibus is a better schemer villain than Sylvanas as of this latest patch. They resist the urge to fall into the 'everything was a part of his master plan' trope for the most part and instead allow him to have actual failures while mostly not making him look like an idiot either. Outside of his confrontation with Zenos anyway, he didn't come out of THAT confrontation looking good, but still.