Please no more AP grind, no Netherlight / no Azerite, No Essences / No Corruption

[Phantombeard]

I don't think I can survive another BFA style grind. Its just too much.

[Maquegyver]

No, they showed the Soul-Link talent tree. They explicitly said there is no more AP grind.

Anima that you will grind to cap each week? Yes. Infinite grind? No.

inb4 w-well they lie!!!!

Artifact Power (AP) -> Azerite Power (AP) -> Anima Power (AP)

Its so painfully obvious and kinda sad you can't see this... Also being dismissive of them being liars is soft as hell. They do lie. Its not some joke or tin-foil hat theory. It is their MO at this point. Rewarding them and being dismissive of it only makes you look like a straight up moron.

[Xath]

Yea, let's pretend the game never had huge grinds before. Let's play that game.

Name a non optional grind that lasted an entire expansion prior to legion that you couldn't just complete via raiding like normal.

[Maquegyver]

Yea, let's pretend the game never had huge grinds before. Let's play that game.

Lets pretend that huge grind = endless grind. Lets play that game. Idiot.

[Mardux]

Lets pretend that huge grind = endless grind. Lets play that game. Idiot.

Clearly, you're more intelligent than the rest of us. So enlighten us please.

Which grind is it that's endless? Azerite gear? Essences? AP?

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Artifact Power (AP) -> Azerite Power (AP) -> Anima Power (AP)

Its so painfully obvious and kinda sad you can't see this... Also being dismissive of them being liars is soft as hell. They do lie. Its not some joke or tin-foil hat theory. It is their MO at this point. Rewarding them and being dismissive of it only makes you look like a straight up moron.

Says the guy calling other people idiots while thinking AP is endless. Lol

[shade3891]

Isnt Anima the next AP thing in SL? But time gated ? :S A cap each week

[AmazonDruid]

Please Blizzard, for the love of all that's holy, STOP with the BS systems introduced in BfA and Legion.

-Get rid of Azerite and AP grinds
-No more Netherlight Crucible type crap
-No Azerite traits shit gear, that can't be swapped to different specs like old Tier gear
-No Essences
-No Corruption
-No Table mission crap

STOP it already. All of these things sucked so bad, and are just such a stupid pointless grind. Go back to gearing up through Dungeons first, then Raids second. You want to gear up, you run a Normal dungeon, then get better gear in a Heroic dungeon, then better gear again in a Mythic dungeon. You want even better gear, run a Heroic Raid, and you want the BiS gear you run Mythic Raids. That's it. No fucking AP grind, no Artifact weapon. No Corruption bullshit.

Have tokens or badges that drop off bosses in Raids, that you then purchase gear from Raid NPC vendors in the main city.

Design the class and specs so good from the start of the new expansion, that none of these stupid grindy systems are even needed whatsoever, go back to something similar to the MoP and WoD class type builds and systems

This video sums up a lot of my thinking on the current state of game ( it's not WoW MMO anymore but a ARPG like Diablo instead )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A86A9s_IEQg

Ok! We , from blizzard, heard you.

[Tyron]

Please Blizzard, for the love of all that's holy, STOP with the BS systems introduced in BfA and Legion.

-Get rid of Azerite and AP grinds
-No more Netherlight Crucible type crap
-No Azerite traits shit gear, that can't be swapped to different specs like old Tier gear
-No Essences
-No Corruption
-No Table mission crap

STOP it already. All of these things sucked so bad, and are just such a stupid pointless grind. Go back to gearing up through Dungeons first, then Raids second. You want to gear up, you run a Normal dungeon, then get better gear in a Heroic dungeon, then better gear again in a Mythic dungeon. You want even better gear, run a Heroic Raid, and you want the BiS gear you run Mythic Raids. That's it. No fucking AP grind, no Artifact weapon. No Corruption bullshit.

Have tokens or badges that drop off bosses in Raids, that you then purchase gear from Raid NPC vendors in the main city.

Design the class and specs so good from the start of the new expansion, that none of these stupid grindy systems are even needed whatsoever, go back to something similar to the MoP and WoD class type builds and systems

This video sums up a lot of my thinking on the current state of game ( it's not WoW MMO anymore but a ARPG like Diablo instead )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A86A9s_IEQg

Let me tell you all about this new Anima Power, but don't let its initials fool you! It has nothing to do with AP...

[StrawberryZebra]

No - did absolutely no AP grind since BfA launched, 0, null, nada, none.

I did watch other people choose to do it though (they got to 80 2 weeks ahead of me - OMG) - but I just decided to play the game as designed.

As someone who has, by nessecity, had to take frequent small breaks away from WoW even getting to 75 to unlock the final essence has been something of a grind. It may be fine for people like yourself who are able to keep up with their Heart levels with their regular play patterns. For those of us who aren't so fortunate the system has a lot of flaws and pitfalls.

Earlier on in the expansion, partiularly with the launch of Battle for Dazar'alor, being 6-8 Heart levels behind everyone else left me in the position where other players have access to more of the traits on their gear and I've had to grind AP to unlock that same level of power. As someone whose main interest in the game is raid content, I can't afford to be that far behind the curve if I want to be worth a raid spot.

I've had to nix certain in game activities completely in order to focus just on keeping my characters power level from falling too far behind the curve.
I simply no longer have the time for PvP, no farming transmog, no doing old content for mounts. I really want to try the pet battles too, I took a long break from the game from the end of Wrath until BFA and missed them being added.

I've spent most of the time in game playing catch up. Not only in terms of AP, but also Essences. I've had to make a serious effort to do the content that rewards the ones I need, which has ocasionaly conflicted badly with wanting to keep up to date with AP too.

It feels absolutely terrible to need to take a 2-3 week break only to come back to find that you're now miles behind other players who've had a power spike because of a new trait unlock or them having an extra essence. Even at the same gear level they've sometimes gained a lot of extra power while I've been away. Almost like the game is punishing me for having other commitments outside of playing.

As more systems have been added it's felt more and more punitive every time I've needed to step away from the game for a while.

The end result being that current design feels actively hostile to players like myself. I never had the chance to play the game "as intended" because I had to cut out playing the bulk of the games content to focus on my primary interest - Raidng.

Imagine still doing WQs and Islands after reaching 75 neck, lmao, go get that 3% stamina, boi.

As someone who primarilly plays a tank, that's actually a pretty significant bonus to have. It's currently about 900 Stamina for me raid buffed. It's harder to justifiy not having it at this stage of the game.

[Onikaroshi]

Games always had grind, they're just going for no INFINITE grind this time around, which is great. People want that end point.

And yes, AP now does have an endpoint, but most of the expansion it was unreachable for reasonable play, now (hopefully) you will cap doing the things you usually do and any extra will be a cosmetic bonus (that someone will bitch about)

[Recom]

Hated losing the artifact? I may be a little of a minority here, but I hated the artifact system, yeah you get weapons with lore and stuff, but I found it to be the most absolute boring stuff about legion, why would I want to run the whole expansion with the same weapon?? Being a DPS player, the most exciting loot drop I can get is a new weapon and legion had none of that

Hate losing the artifacts as in the abilities and passives. We're talking about power sources in this thread, not the gear pieces themselves.

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I'm talking about why their minds got to this kind of stuff, not why they implemented the way they have. Prior to them talking about the Path of the Titans, a vocal amount of players wanted Blizz to introduce some sort of end game leveling system. IIRC, they put out that they were talking about some stuff internally, eventually announcing and discussing the Path of the Titans at Blizzcon. A end game leveling system where you would slowly unlock additional powers of your choice, that would expand with patches. Sounds awfully familiar.

They scrapped Path's for a variety of reasons, one being that glyphs already provided similar feeling power increases, and they felt it would need to too strong for it to be worth players time, something they didn't want to do. For Legion, they decided that a system like that is perfect for central power control, eventually realizing that it could work on an xpac-to-xpac basis. After showing it off at blizzcon and during early, most people compared it to the path of the titans. IIRC there were even a some blizz references.

Oh I see what you mean now. The thing it, Path of Titans was slated for Cata (if I'm not mistaken) when the game was handled by a VERY different team with very different mindset, goals and management.

A Path of Titan like system would be just fine, as long as it's not tied to an item that you eventually get rid of..

[mojusk]

You know somehow the game managed to survive for over 10 years with no endless grinds in fact it actually did way better in terms of playerbase.

wod said otherwise.

[Protean]

These craptastic systems are in the game for a reason, it farms MAU for them. No chance in hell there won't be some similar shit in the game in Shadowlands.

If it's similar I will finally hang up my subsciption. I've had it otherwise uninterrupted since vanilla but I just can't keep up with all this bullshit any longer.

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Oh, you sweet summer child.

Yea, let's remove every incentive to actual play, every single aspect of character progression. That's a fucking genius idea for an MMO.

Other games survive by having engaging and fun gameplay.

WoW survives by gradually morphing into a Skinner's Box and sucking players so deep in they don't realize they're being manipulated.

[Xath]

wod said otherwise.

Yep the expansion of the devs pitching a fit over flying definitely shows more than vanilla/bc/wrath/cata/mop none of which had uncapped grinds.

[Uko]

If blizzard just made essences and azerite neck level account wide like how they do things in diablo 3 which they ripped the system off of no one would care that they exist. The problem is blizzard decided ya know what people will love regrinding everything over and over and will pay us to do it so why not. They don't care about enjoyment only that mau stuff.

[GucciWarr]

I'm talking about why their minds got to this kind of stuff, not why they implemented the way they have. Prior to them talking about the Path of the Titans, a vocal amount of players wanted Blizz to introduce some sort of end game leveling system. IIRC, they put out that they were talking about some stuff internally, eventually announcing and discussing the Path of the Titans at Blizzcon. A end game leveling system where you would slowly unlock additional powers of your choice, that would expand with patches. Sounds awfully familiar.

They scrapped Path's for a variety of reasons, one being that glyphs already provided similar feeling power increases, and they felt it would need to too strong for it to be worth players time, something they didn't want to do. For Legion, they decided that a system like that is perfect for central power control, eventually realizing that it could work on an xpac-to-xpac basis. After showing it off at blizzcon and during early, most people compared it to the path of the titans. IIRC there were even a some blizz references.

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Oh I agree 100%. Things weren't even this bad in 8.2, but now it's just too much. I used to have 3-5 alts that I would mess around with, but now, with all the extra steps needed, I really only bother with 1.

Oh no you can only raid on 3 characters.....

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If they want retail to be an actually good MMO, they need to remove Mythic and LFR difficulties. Not a popular opinion, but it's the only way they can make modern raiding interesting again.

Go play classic dinosaur brain

[tru]

Who cares if class design is s*. If we go into SL with BFA design minus the perks from gear and add one ability from this covenants s*.... It's going to be even more horrible to play than it is now by miles!

[Stacko]

Oh no you can only raid on 3 characters.....

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Go play classic dinosaur brain

Classic doesn't have enough content. If it had a Heroic mode back then, would be better.

[Polarthief]

These craptastic systems are in the game for a reason, it farms MAU for them. No chance in hell there won't be some similar shit in the game in Shadowlands.

Except if you're actively raiding, a lot of this stuff is unnecessary since you're going to stay subbed to raid. PvP players should have more PvP stuff to do. M+ players like staying in dungeons.

There's no need to have the garbage systems if you just improve the good ones that people enjoy. If anything, the constant grind burns people out faster. If they were smart, they'd remove all that shit. You want people playing your games longer? Cut out the busy work and add more fun things. Sure they may not be logged in nearly as much, but if they still pay for their sub, what difference does it make to you? You're still being paid the same to add *LESS* things in!

[thunderdragon2]

sadly i believe there's always going to be at least 1 grind i will settle for only a anima grind but i know there's going to be more, im not even going to opto into shadowlands beta as i feel it pointless since they just ignore any feedback gven