Auto-attack Outdated?

[Kumorii]

I would just put it on a keybind which I can toggle to auto-spam it and then forget it just like normal auto attack.
Considering it is not connected to GCD I would just straight up melt every single boss in the game solo.

[Stickiler]

Well things like taunt always need a target?.

The way games like Wildstar handled it was that taunts were AoE around your character, IIRC. Almost all classes were short-ranged compared to WoW's classes as well.

[Tradu]

Auto attacks exist to reduce the gap between good and bad players, as well as to reduce AoE scaling and ability burst.

[PenguinChan]

WoW has a 1.5 GCD baseline. Quite a lot of classes increase this timer to an easy 1.2 or below, and even more with CDs, Pots, and procs. WoW is not outdated and slow in that regard, and it plays around that philosophy quite a bit. Now that said I do think too many classes are focused around spamming things on the GCD, which makes a lot of things in the game feel samey.

Filler attacks are too common in WoW and it's rather annoying. Sure they can generate resources or bridge the gap between abilities but a well designed class wouldn't have to deal with that at all. That said, a class or specialization that revolves around said ability is totally fine to have. We just have too many that do that, because it's easy to design a class around that and make it consistent - even if it isn't very fun.

But on topic, and why I mention this - Auto Attacks are boring if they serve their base purpose only or just generic benefits from it. Quite a few classes do spice it up and provide resource generation spikes, instant GCDs, reduced CDs, extra spike of damage, etc. and that's great, but they often also feel weak or under tuned because of it.

[Gaidax]

It's not first time I see this suggestion and it's same answer all the time - what you want is not what everyone wants.

I find one of the biggest WoW strengths in class and spec diversity is just how many options there are as a whole, you can literally get almost whatever you want already right now.

• Want to mash buttons non-stop and not even have auto-attack? You have that with all casters and even some GCD-locked melee, which there are quite a few.
• Want to chill a bit here and there - you got that too and it's fine by the way, not everyone likes to be GCD locked all the time.

I did play Wildstar which is what OP offers and quite honestly, after the initial novelty wore off, I just macroed the shit out of my mouse and keyboard and ran with that, because at some point it was just more frustrating than fun.

[Trumpcat]

I like to give Star Wars: The Old Republic is an example - no auto attack for any spec. I find the combat far more dynamic and enjoyable there compared to WoW. (alas the game has other fundamental flaws)

Auto attack is not needed right now without changing anything in WoW. All classes that got it already have rotations, priorities and fillers. None is designed to right click a target and AFK. Auto attack is something that is invisibly happening on the background of your main combat abilities and it makes no sense.

A Paladin with lower haste and bad azerite has gaps in their rotation where they can do nothing but wait cooldowns and watch the auto attack - but that is bad design, not a reason to need auto attack. Same for BM Hunter where 60% of the damage comes from the pet and auto attack.

If there were ever an overhaul to the combat and class systems in WoW removing auto attack should be a staple. But it seems with Shadowlands they are willing to go backwards in class design, instead of leading the MMO charge from the front.

[Alvito]

I don't feel like autoattack matters at all. I'm not sure what the point of it is, don't get why removing it would even change anything.

Just quickly looking over rankings for Wrathion for each melee and hunter spec white damage was 8 to 16% of their damage, that is a big chunk for just standing in the right area and facing the correct direction. The only reason the number is that low too is you have corruptions doing as much as 35% damage in some cases. Just that quick looks reveals a much bigger issue than white damage though. Random procs between corruption, azerite and weapon enchants doing half of some people's damage is a busted system for sure.

[Gaidax]

I like to give Star Wars: The Old Republic is an example - no auto attack for any spec. I find the combat far more dynamic and enjoyable there compared to WoW. (alas the game has other fundamental flaws)

Keyword here is "I".

The point is that you is you, but it does not mean that everyone magically shares your interests. I, personally, can totally see how not everyone wants to be GCD locked 24/7 - some people do like to have that downtime here and there to chill a bit and it's fine that we have specs to accommodate that too.

[Tradu]

I like to give Star Wars: The Old Republic is an example - no auto attack for any spec. I find the combat far more dynamic and enjoyable there compared to WoW. (alas the game has other fundamental flaws)

Auto attack is not needed right now without changing anything in WoW. All classes that got it already have rotations, priorities and fillers. None is designed to right click a target and AFK. Auto attack is something that is invisibly happening on the background of your main combat abilities and it makes no sense.

A Paladin with lower haste and bad azerite has gaps in their rotation where they can do nothing but wait cooldowns and watch the auto attack - but that is bad design, not a reason to need auto attack. Same for BM Hunter where 60% of the damage comes from the pet and auto attack.

If there were ever an overhaul to the combat and class systems in WoW removing auto attack should be a staple. But it seems with Shadowlands they are willing to go backwards in class design, instead of leading the MMO charge from the front.

Removing the auto attack would be a balancing nightmare, and they're already struggling on that front. It'd also increase the gap between bad and good players, which again is the opposite of their current design philosophy.

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Keyword here is "I".

The point is that you is you, but it does not mean that everyone magically shares your interests. I, personally, can totally see how not everyone wants to be GCD locked 24/7 - some people do like to have that downtime here and there to chill a bit and it's fine that we have specs to accommodate that too.

Completely agree, which is why it frustrates me to no end that Blizzard has spent the past few expansions getting rid of specs like that. Feral, WW and Assassination are meant to be slower paced specs where spending limited resources correctly(decision-making heavy instead of APM heavy) should be the design(otherwise why even have energy?), but they've gone more and more in the direction of just being GCD locked spamfests.

[Pony Soldier]

I think auto attacks still work for games like MMOs. You just have to have the right mindset when going into those games. Like going from a Devil May Cry hack and slash type game to turn based RPG. I guess I wouldn't mind a more action oriented style of gameplay but it kind of already feels that way. For some classes like hunters you hardly ever notice the auto attacks because you're always using some ability.

Either system is fine. I'm just saying that I don't think auto attacks are "outdated" it's just a different gameplay style where you have to switch your mindset from being fast paced to a more relaxed pace. Back in the old WoW days like vanilla and TBC it sure did feel slow. Especially on paladins. Over the years however WoW has become basically a hack and slash RPG.

[CrossNgen]

The way games like Wildstar handled it was that taunts were AoE around your character, IIRC. Almost all classes were short-ranged compared to WoW's classes as well.

Both the Spellslinger and the Esper classes had a lot of long range attacks, however the Esper could spec into a more short range build.

[Phurox]

Would be a problem for outlaw rogues. There's so many times where that spec is energy fatigued and just doing auto attacks.

[Drusin]

This would be a perfect opportunity to try it out on our new class coming in Shadowlands :]

[Ascius]

Not having an auto attack in something like Star Wars TOR was the weirdest and strangest thing ever. You sit there at the mob for an age doing nothing, but just standing with your glowstick and then every few seconds you hit a button to slap a wet noodle on the mob. It was horrible. Auto attack makes melee character look like it's doing something, plus it is general passive damage.

Also in recent single player game case Xenoblade Chronicles 2, had an auto attack and it was worked nicely into combo combat system, loved that system.

I'm for Auto attack, you can't reinvent WoW at this point. You either go full action combat system or stay with what made the games combat work for all these years.

[Raugnaut]

Removing the auto attack would be a balancing nightmare, and they're already struggling on that front. It'd also increase the gap between bad and good players, which again is the opposite of their current design philosophy.

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Completely agree, which is why it frustrates me to no end that Blizzard has spent the past few expansions getting rid of specs like that. Feral, WW and Assassination are meant to be slower paced specs where spending limited resources correctly(decision-making heavy instead of APM heavy) should be the design(otherwise why even have energy?), but they've gone more and more in the direction of just being GCD locked spamfests.

Not really sure what you mean there with Feral. As a feral, outside of Berserk (Which was nerfed) I have very large numbers of empty GCDs, even WITH the clearcasting spammy talent (Which is a dps loss over the +25% damage on regrowth talents). It's very nice.

[Sentynel]

WoW can easily be made to feel like an action combat game

No thank you. I want my MMORPG back and not further doubling down on this fast paced ARPG competitive-wannabe piece of shit we have today.

[Gasparde]

You mean carpal-tunnel inducing GCD-less fillers that hit like wet noodles and make your hand implode after 5 minutes of playing, all for the awesome bonus of 10% added dps? No ty.

There's specs that are like that, or at least there were in the past. I remember Enhancer being like that during Legion - if you didn't spec into Boulderfist you'd just spam Rockbiter so fucking much it's insane.

I don't wanna be APM-locked in this game. This isn't a fighting game. I'm fine with having some downtime in between button presses - as long as it's not like 40% of downtime (like it was with Frost DKs at the beginning of BFA iirc).

[Tradu]

Not really sure what you mean there with Feral. As a feral, outside of Berserk (Which was nerfed) I have very large numbers of empty GCDs, even WITH the clearcasting spammy talent (Which is a dps loss over the +25% damage on regrowth talents). It's very nice.

Feral is extremely fast paced right now compared to what it used to be, thanks to SotF and Lucid(which most people seem to be obsessed with). You're looking at an APM in the mid-50s, which is nearly GCD capped. A much better spot is around 40(for Feral/WW/Assassination, Sub a bit higher and Outlaw a bit higher again).

[Enz0]

I thought it was fun keeping slice n dice up on sub rogue. However, it isn't so fun when you are staring at your character attacking with nothing to do like classic ret paladin.

I think auto-attacks still have a place. WoW is still an RPG and stats you obtain to boost attack speed has been a staple in RPGs for a long time. Imagine having to hit an attack button every 0.3 seconds on a high haste character. Taking away auto-attacks would reduce stat depth, and it would feel a lot different for physical DPS characters.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

Swtor has no auto-attack but is tab target/hotkey, so it can work without needing to re-work the entire gameplay structure.

And the combat in SWTOR feels really really shit compared to WoW.


The perfection of the tab/autoattack combat system is one of WoWs greatest strengths. No other MMO feels as good to play as WoW. Even with BFA dumbing down most specs and making everything slower, it's still miles ahead of all the competition.

Do you want to redeisgn/remove one of the things that WoW are the very best at in the entire genre?