I like Anduin !

[Niwes]

Just hit 110 and started levelling on alliance, I must say, I really like Anduin, really don't understand the hate.

What's so bad about having a kind and optimistic leader? And he is written to be quite intelligent, which is cool, since he is not the Grrr, roarrr, smash warrior type.

He is the type of leader a kingdom would want, good, kind hearted and wise. He isn't afraid to step up either to fight, but only if he absolutely must. Also willing ot offer his enemies a hand if it would help bring peace of if their plight is just.


This is the type of leader you really want. Why the hate? He also looks cool in the cinematic.

i also dont get what ppl have with anduin.

i play since 2005 without interruption. i played every xpac since wotlk on both faction sides. on both side i have at least one char, that played everything completey, with all quests, reps and whatever. and i read all quests. i really can say i saw every little lore piece of that game on horde and alliance side (and i read all the books).

that said: while i am not like „anduin is best char ever“ i REALLY dont get what the fukin hell ppl have with that anduin hate.

dont get it all.

[J012D4N]

Genn is on a downward spiral into madness. Which fits him honestly. If we would have gone with High King Greymane, we would have needed saaay Velen as a chief advisor to cool him down in case he plans to comission a tactical nuke from the gnomes to send to Lordaeron.

Yep, no doubt. Like I said ... his current emo character writing wouldn't work for this at all. It would've required a 'polish' during the Legion campaign. Additionally, Kul Tiras wouldn't have exactly been thrilled to join up with the dude that was constantly at odds with Daelin & his nobles/family politically.

[Sharby]

No, I agree. You made other points. I'm just talking about this one specifically. And as you sad, or at least suggested, his character would probably be more well received if he was more fleshed out.

It is a conscious decision on Blizzard's part to focus less on story and more on something else. I'm just not sure what that something else is.

At any rate I prefer more fleshed out characters in my RPG games, MMO or otherwise. Which is why I dislike pretty much all WoW characters beside maybe Genn and Nathanos.

It would have been nice to somehow see more of the arrogant Genn in game instead of it being more implied unless you read the books, but it is good to see how events slowly break him and force him to be more humble. Also he works very well as an enemy for Sylvanas as he lost the most due to her actions.

As for Nathanos....he is a despicable unrepentant cockhole that nobody likes. And that was the aim with him. Sure, in the case of FF, the end result would be either Zenos or Lahabrea, but beggars can't be chosers.

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Genn is on a downward spiral into madness. Which fits him honestly. If we would have gone with High King Greymane, we would have needed saaay Velen as a chief advisor to cool him down in case he plans to comission a tactical nuke from the gnomes to send to Lordaeron.

If I was in charge I would have Anduin take the Hien route in regards to characterization, have his habits be more peaceful in nature but when it comes to fighting he's the first on the front line. Someone you wouldn't want to fuck with, but don't have to be scared to receive abuse from would work well for Anduin.

--

I think my issue with Nathanos isn't that he's an asshole, but moreso a lot of his insults are completely illogical and unfounded, if he was bitter that the PC was so accomplished and made remarks reflecting this it would be fine. But he treats the PC like they're still a green adventurer and constantly questions our ability, which isn't charming, just annoying.


Whereas Lahabrea and Zenos both had disdain for the WoL, but not because they deemed them worthless but more because they're strength was such a hindrance to their plans, hell Zenos had some weird fixation on the WoL. Which works a lot better.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I don't mind Anduin, but my view might be skewed since I'm used to japanese main characters, which are probably the worst on average, the sheer fact that Anduin is not a bumbling idiot already places him at least in the neutral category for me.

[Doctor Amadeus]

Anduin is a Puts in my opinion he single handily 2nd to Sylvannas for personally getting more people killed then almost all other previous conflicts in Azeroth combined by my estimation.

Sure you can say that he does it for the greater good, and I would agree, but in the end he has made equally if not just as bad horrid decisions by accident that Sylvannas has on purpose.

I guess we could chaulk it up to his age and what not, but all in all Azeroth would have been much better off without a boy king, and someone else to hold it for him until he was ready.


For the record I loved Varynn and I don't he could have avoided some of the misteps of Anduin, however I don't think he father put up with as much bullshit once he found out was Sylvannas has done.


NOW I would say because of Anduins slow to react to the Burnning of the World Tree, which he neither prevented when it could have, helped in it's recovery, I would say It's likely The Alliance might lose one of the better allys it's had in the Nightelves.

[Powerogue]

He has good moments. I won't deny that. But good moments are not enough in a long story like those in an MMO. You also mentioned Jaina. The main problem people have with Jaina (And Garrosh and Varian) is that their character changes drasticly sometimes outside of the game. These things have to be shown and stretched out over a larger period of time.

Warcraft III came out in 2002.



I also dug up the rest of the quest text with Anduin in disguise in Stormwind, they were in fact part of that same quest chain.



And to be thorough, the comic book the thumbnail came from: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...on-of-the-wolf

[Wangming]

Warcraft III came out in 2002.

And? In World of Warcraft Jaina was portrayed as neutral to the Horde (and a big fan of Thrall) untill the bombing of Theramore after which she went to the other side. She was the most anti Horde NPC all the way to Legion where she threw a tantrum left to kill demons completely off screen and only returned an expansion later to pull out Anduin and his army from the mess they have gotten into. While offscreen she cooled down a bit.

Pray tell which one of these was a gradual change that the players could witness in game? But do it quickly. The discussion is supposed to be about Blanduin and I don't want to go offtopic too much.

[LuminaL]

the fact that he honored and cared for his enemies more than his allies annoys me the most, I can understand the call for peace and ending war to stop further bloodshed but its easy to forgive and forget when its not you who lost things.

when you dont give military force to your allies, but instead personally attend the funeral of your enemy who happened to have a failed attempt at killing the husband and leader (and one of the most important druids of azeroth ) just a year ago, you deserve to lose any respect given to you and lose your place as their king.

I mean thanks god tyrande didnt want to join the battle and never saw Anduin carrying the corpse of someone who attempted to murder his husband.

overall: I hate any writers personal agenda pushing character.

[Capultro]

Do you like anduin? I will tell you the truth, anduin is unworthy to wield shalamayne, and, besides, he is not the one to behave as if he were a warrior wielding it, he is just a priest ...
I will not accept that they will turn him into a paladin overnight, since he neither knows how to fight, nor has he had training or carries the spirit of a warrior, he is only a priest ... his thing is to heal, to put shields, and little more, and throwing punishments, which are like bee pecks .... xdd..anduin is quite unworthy, they have been bad since the beginning, because anduin, he must have been a warrior, trained by his father, and now, this is not It would happen. by the way they vary this dishonor, being a great warrior and having a priest son, it happens to me and I kill myself xdd, poor varian... again here the lore is wrong.

In no way can I accept that Anduin, being a priest of the mound, suddenly has a legendary warrior sword, and goes paladin, I'm sorry, but I can't accept it.

and if he does not become a paladin and, simply, he is a priest with shalamayne, then, either, this does not make sense, or he would like the priests to transfigure staves to 2H sword, but putting it on the waist, as they vary. I would like the latter, but, certainly, it does not make sense a priest with a 2H sword right? Well that is anduin.a character failure, so I do not understand how you might like it.It has everything, absolutely everything against to be a good character in the story. In fact, Garonne herself fits better, simply because she is what she is, a rogue, behaves as such, period. She does not give them what she is not.

[dez1216]

I literally just watched the cinematic after Daz'alor, and it's actually Jaina that says they shouldn't push the attack because the Zandalari are sad. Then Shaw points out that Sylvanis is the real problem. Why does Anduin keep getting the blame for this? All he does is rightly point out that their attack was meant to drive a wedge between the Zandalari and Horde and instead by killing the king they just brought them together.

[Fetus Rex]

I loathe him. He is stupid, naive and useless as a leader. He could use Saurfang and other idiots to disarm the Horde and slaughter them all afterwards. With Kirin Tor, spaceships and other stupid shits he could exterminate all of them.

[NuLogic]

Yeah, right, let's not defend our allies lands in an "Alliance", give a fuck about the genocide, watch in cold blood as our civilians get slaughtered. Just use our allies troops as cannon fodder when it suits you.

That's the Alliances spirit right there, nontoxic masculinity for you.

/tar Anduin /spit

Lol our people, relax it's a game.

In this situation what the rest of the alliance should do is help with the retreat and providing shelter for the refugees. Which they did so what's the issue? I don't believe in wow lore you can immediately teleport the whole alliance military to another continent.

IRL when japan took over the phillipines the us military didn't magically teleport there and take it back. Many got captured and killed. The rest fled or formed a resistance. It took years of island hopping and slowly moving forward to take it back. I'm pretty sure blizzard chose similar limits to invoke partial realism and the feels in players.

[Powerogue]

And? In World of Warcraft Jaina was portrayed as neutral to the Horde (and a big fan of Thrall) untill the bombing of Theramore after which she went to the other side. She was the most anti Horde NPC all the way to Legion where she threw a tantrum left to kill demons completely off screen and only returned an expansion later to pull out Anduin and his army from the mess they have gotten into. While offscreen she cooled down a bit.

Pray tell which one of these was a gradual change that the players could witness in game? But do it quickly. The discussion is supposed to be about Blanduin and I don't want to go offtopic too much.

*Her leaving the Kirin Tor in Legion when the Horde was allowed into the city
*A moment I can't recall the exact source on, possibly Before The Storm, which had her conversing with Kalecgos about her current state. Very aimless and empty without Theramore or Dalaran, channeled into rage.
*This eventually leads to the above prequel comic where she ruminates on the choices that lead her to this point and steels herself to return home to defend her country from the Horde and redeem herself in their eyes.
*Daughter of the Sea song, which has her return to Theramore and resurrect Dad's old flagship, declaring "I'm listening now, father." Hearkening back to previously shown WCIII scene.
*In-game we see her back on the front lines defending the Alliance at Lordaeron.
*Later in BFA proper we see her whole questline of humbly asking for forgiveness, being denied, imprisoned, before her mother ultimately coming to understand the choices that lead her to this point and telling her to "forgive your father...and forgive yourself." As Lord Admiral, she re-establishes her roots and has something to care about again, but still holds no love for the Horde.

*Baine and his immense bravery mark the final turning point. Stopping Sylvanas and returning Derek to Jaina, her initial fury melts into compassion for the first time in years.

*Meeting with Lor'themar again, remembering the pandarens' words as well as he does, she's willing to put aside their differences and work together against common enemies once again.

I know I'm missing the Dazar'alor raid and her comment of mercy (or was it Anduin's? Can't quite remember.) But IDK where that falls on the timeline.

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I loathe him. He is stupid, naive and useless as a leader. He could use Saurfang and other idiots to disarm the Horde and slaughter them all afterwards. With Kirin Tor, spaceships and other stupid shits he could exterminate all of them.

That would make him conniving, manipulative, and evil, notably three traits absent from his portfolio.

[Aleloron]

If you mean Anduin Lothar, yes, I like him too. Anduin Wrynn? Nope, too much of a kid, his innocence will be his undoing.

You forgot to mention arrogance as well. The dude is now about 18 and king, but he basically refuses to listen to anyone even though the other Alliance leaders are far older, wiser, and more experienced than he is. Alliance/Anduin fans may jump me for saying that, but I do think that the kid is arrogant and not ready for leadership.

His father had his faults, especially when he was younger and after the personality spilt via Onyxia, but he seemed to be more willing to weigh the words and needs of the other members of the Alliance whereas Anduin seems to be more of a “my way or the highway” sort of kid. But he’s still young and has a lot of growing up to do; he’s not without hope.

[Liarparadox]

Just hit 110 and started levelling on alliance, I must say, I really like Anduin, really don't understand the hate.

What's so bad about having a kind and optimistic leader? And he is written to be quite intelligent, which is cool, since he is not the Grrr, roarrr, smash warrior type.

He is the type of leader a kingdom would want, good, kind hearted and wise. He isn't afraid to step up either to fight, but only if he absolutely must. Also willing ot offer his enemies a hand if it would help bring peace of if their plight is just.


This is the type of leader you really want. Why the hate? He also looks cool in the cinematic.

yeah i like him too. I don't really get the hate either. I like is father far more; but yeah i really think his type of character is more than fine.

[Powerogue]

You forgot to mention arrogance as well. The dude is now about 18 and king, but he basically refuses to listen to anyone even though the other Alliance leaders are far older, wiser, and more experienced than he is. Alliance/Anduin fans may jump me for saying that, but I do think that the kid is arrogant and not ready for leadership.

I think it'd be more accurate to say he's being decisive. It's not that he's ever shut any of the Alliance leaders out of the conversation. He prides himself on communicating with them civilly in an attempt to resolve their problems. But this has been a tough war full of tough decisions, and he has had to override them on more than one occasion, causing tension. Still, you never saw him raise a finger against the night elves for insubordination in choosing to defend their own lands without his permission.

Beats the hell out of the Sylvanas approach of targeting people in her own faction for execution at even the suspicion of hope. Saurfang hadn't even been demonstrated to have done anything wrong and Sylvanas had assassins after his head. Same for Thrall. "One does not question the Dark Lady." -Vellcinda Benton.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Vellcinda_Benton

[Syegfryed]

totally bland and boring character, perfect lawful good person with no defects who do nothing wrong and don't commit any mistakes or when does its because he is too good/pure/innocent or was deceived, of course an elf player would like that.

Anyway, he is normal for me, don't dislike but i can't like character like this, he need to do something, decent, for me to like him like the original Anduin or have some flaws like Varian

[Powerogue]

totally bland and boring character, perfect lawful good person with no defects who do nothing wrong and don't commit any mistakes or when does its because he is too good/pure/innocent or was deceived, of course an elf player would like that.

Anyway, he is normal for me, don't dislike but i can't like character like this, he need to do something, decent, for me to like him like the original Anduin or have some flaws like Varian

Sometimes I wonder if some people on this forum can be pleased. It feels like any character who makes mistakes is immediately unforgivable, yet any character who does not is boring. Tell me I'm wrong.

Are they not making the right mistakes? Because to me the mistakes Anduin had made so far line up with the previously established character traits of him being optimistic and inexperienced. Both traits that have been chipped at significantly in character growth since MOP, but not removed entirely.

Was him releasing Saurfang not "decent"? It was an immense gamble for him, and surely would have provoked outrage if certain groups among the Alliance discovered it. He could've died the moment he walked into that cell. The Taliesin cinematic analysis vid goes into more detail but it really is a very core moment to his character that was certainly far from bland or flawless.

[LuminaL]

Lol our people, relax it's a game.

In this situation what the rest of the alliance should do is help with the retreat and providing shelter for the refugees. Which they did so what's the issue? I don't believe in wow lore you can immediately teleport the whole alliance military to another continent.

IRL when japan took over the phillipines the us military didn't magically teleport there and take it back. Many got captured and killed. The rest fled or formed a resistance. It took years of island hopping and slowly moving forward to take it back. I'm pretty sure blizzard chose similar limits to invoke partial realism and the feels in players.

they used a portal to evacuate a lot of darnassian citizens to the stormwind, how the reverse situation was impossible ? alliance has many great mages in their ranks. there is a ship line from stormwind going exactly to the teldrassil, they could atleast attempt to send some help there? they sent some elite forces ASAP to pandaria when anduin was missing, howcome they couldnt do that even tho we see night elven ships return back to teldrassil ?

( and I dont even go into the length of asking the big question: where the hell were the Draenei when they are so close to the night elves? or why the army of the light didnt come to help when we see they have this giant spaceship capable of landing all kinds of support, both soldiers and lightforged turrets ?

[Syegfryed]

Sometimes I wonder if some people on this forum can be pleased. It feels like any character who makes mistakes is immediately unforgivable, yet any character who does not is boring. Tell me I'm wrong.

Are they not making the right mistakes? Because to me the mistakes Anduin had made so far line up with the previously established character traits of him being optimistic and inexperienced. Both traits that have been chipped at significantly in character growth since MOP, but not removed entirely.

Was him releasing Saurfang not "decent"? It was an immense gamble for him, and surely would have provoked outrage if certain groups among the Alliance discovered it. He could've died the moment he walked into that cell. The Taliesin cinematic analysis vid goes into more detail but it really is a very core moment to his character that was certainly far from bland or flawless.

what "mistakes" anduin made that not end up being because he is too good/inocent/pure?

even the "wrong" thing you said, like releasing saurfang, in fact, was just him being right above anyone would think, doing the "right decision" despite people not liking, and that "lawful good decision" ended the war and archieve peace. Geez what a perfect character

Like i said, those kind of characters are just bland and boring, its lawful good and "meh"

i said "decent" in way of being forthright/decisive, like Lothar was